whats a good fuel setup for 12bls of boost?
damn you S4 guys and your Rtek!! are they making the S5 version yet?
06-24-07, 11:56 PM
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I am running RTek v1.8 (720cc primaries and secondaries) with a Walbro 255LPH fuel pump... plus an intake, Racing Beat REV-TII exhaust system, street port, and BNR Stage 4 turbo (should be back soon). My goal is 300RWHP. I will probably need some other things to reach that goal if I don't make it with these mods. Good luck with your set-up though. You really should consider RTek if you're not going to mess with an EMS. Especially since you're running 4x 720cc injectors without a controller or anything.
06-25-07, 06:38 AM
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yeah i'm preaty sure i'm going to go w/ the rtec (1.8), it sounds good and looks like a great deal, and i have heard lots of good things just surfin the fourms.
06-25-07, 05:23 PM
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Let me go ahead and clarify what should be done here with this fuel setup.
I ran the following setup on a 88" Street Ported Turbo-II with the following.
Let me state that the exhaust was ported, and not the intake.
Stock 550 in the primaries, with Greedy 720’s in the Secondary.
While you are upgrading your Secondary injectors it would be wise to get your stock 550's cleaned and balanced professionally at a shop. Once you get your 550's back cleaned install them along with the 720's. It would be a great idea while you are at it to install a fresh fuel filter "Mazda Preferred " This alone assures you peace of mind as far as your injectors flowing perfectly as they should be, and your fuel is clean and the fuel filter is not clogged "Which can cause a lean condition". As far as a fuel pump is concerned I ran my stock Turbo-II pump, but I would rewire the pump to make sure it is getting the proper voltage. A lot of guys are running Walboro, FD, or Cosmo Fuel pumps, even Supra TT pumps with good success. I just bought a S5 Turbo-II with a 300ZX TT pump and it works just fine. Now to control the fuel with the 720's a fuel computer is definitely needed, or else you will be running pig rich, and at most you will only be drowning your car with excess fuel to prevent a "lean" condition from occurring, which means in plain English you will suffer from poor MPG. You will simply be drowning out any potential detonation which is a crude way to tune. An Apexi S-AFC is good as well as an Rtek. I myself consider these fuel controllers more as an "band aid" than anything, however there are a lot of guys here that will disagree with me, but there entitled to there own opinion. I just think it’s a waste of money, because eventually your going to want more power and those fuel controllers are already reaching there limit at this point as far as reliability and efficiency is concerned especially on an AFM, but then again this is my own personal opinion on the matter. An aftermarket EMS especially on a Rotary is the way to go brotha man! As far as an FPR is concerned you don’t really need it stock is just fine, but if you want to install one that would be good. That’s everything as far is fuel is concerned. You will need a FCD as well if you don’t go with the Rtek. A FMIC would be nice as well to keep those hot intakes temps under control. You don’t want to boost more than 12 PSI on the stock turbo as the stock turbo already is reaching its maximum efficiency, you don’t make more power running more than 12 psi, and you’re putting a strain on the oil seals as well. I think that’s pretty much about it. If you do a search under my name I have covered this question a few times already. Good luck.
I ran the following setup on a 88" Street Ported Turbo-II with the following.
Let me state that the exhaust was ported, and not the intake.
Stock 550 in the primaries, with Greedy 720’s in the Secondary.
While you are upgrading your Secondary injectors it would be wise to get your stock 550's cleaned and balanced professionally at a shop. Once you get your 550's back cleaned install them along with the 720's. It would be a great idea while you are at it to install a fresh fuel filter "Mazda Preferred " This alone assures you peace of mind as far as your injectors flowing perfectly as they should be, and your fuel is clean and the fuel filter is not clogged "Which can cause a lean condition". As far as a fuel pump is concerned I ran my stock Turbo-II pump, but I would rewire the pump to make sure it is getting the proper voltage. A lot of guys are running Walboro, FD, or Cosmo Fuel pumps, even Supra TT pumps with good success. I just bought a S5 Turbo-II with a 300ZX TT pump and it works just fine. Now to control the fuel with the 720's a fuel computer is definitely needed, or else you will be running pig rich, and at most you will only be drowning your car with excess fuel to prevent a "lean" condition from occurring, which means in plain English you will suffer from poor MPG. You will simply be drowning out any potential detonation which is a crude way to tune. An Apexi S-AFC is good as well as an Rtek. I myself consider these fuel controllers more as an "band aid" than anything, however there are a lot of guys here that will disagree with me, but there entitled to there own opinion. I just think it’s a waste of money, because eventually your going to want more power and those fuel controllers are already reaching there limit at this point as far as reliability and efficiency is concerned especially on an AFM, but then again this is my own personal opinion on the matter. An aftermarket EMS especially on a Rotary is the way to go brotha man! As far as an FPR is concerned you don’t really need it stock is just fine, but if you want to install one that would be good. That’s everything as far is fuel is concerned. You will need a FCD as well if you don’t go with the Rtek. A FMIC would be nice as well to keep those hot intakes temps under control. You don’t want to boost more than 12 PSI on the stock turbo as the stock turbo already is reaching its maximum efficiency, you don’t make more power running more than 12 psi, and you’re putting a strain on the oil seals as well. I think that’s pretty much about it. If you do a search under my name I have covered this question a few times already. Good luck.
06-25-07, 05:48 PM
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06-25-07, 05:50 PM
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06-25-07, 06:01 PM
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Oh really? I have read a little bit about the different Rtek versions. The guy that invented it I got to give it to him, it's definitely an improvement from back in the days of just relying on a FCD. I still rather run an EMS though like I said that’s just me. I have been messing around with these cars for eight years now, and through trial and error and of course blowing up motors you live and learn.
06-26-07, 08:57 AM
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i guess i dont completly understand a turbo yet, how does a bigger turbo make more power if its running the same psi as a smaller turbo? and i also was concerd w/ getting my intake heat soaked, is there any good way to run a CAI?
06-26-07, 10:17 AM
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CFM=cubic feet per minute
so with that said a smaller turbo will flow less CFM's of air at 12lbs than a larger one at the same boost level, more air= more power. but I could be wrong so let the gurus confirm
06-26-07, 10:57 AM
#41
well, a front-mount intercooler (FMIC) will help prevent heat-soak a hell of a lot more than a CAI. A larger turbo (to a point) will produce more power for a given PSI because of flow rate thru both sides of it (and through the rest of the intake system). Power is a function of how much air you can pump thru the engine, which is a combination of pressure and flow rate.
For example, a small turbine (the exhaust side, aka the hot side) will spin up quickly on lower flow rates and pressures from the exhaust because its more easily "filled" and has got less mass, but once the flow rates and pressures rise higher, it becomes more of a restriction. This is why people 'clip' their turbines, so that a part of the blades is out of the way of the exhaust gas flowing thru, reducing backpressure (but also efficiency). A larger turbine will flow more air thru, more efficiently, with less backpressure, and can keep a consistant pressure number thruout a greater rpm band
this is in no way comprehensive, or even completely technically correct, but it should help you visualize it
For example, a small turbine (the exhaust side, aka the hot side) will spin up quickly on lower flow rates and pressures from the exhaust because its more easily "filled" and has got less mass, but once the flow rates and pressures rise higher, it becomes more of a restriction. This is why people 'clip' their turbines, so that a part of the blades is out of the way of the exhaust gas flowing thru, reducing backpressure (but also efficiency). A larger turbine will flow more air thru, more efficiently, with less backpressure, and can keep a consistant pressure number thruout a greater rpm band
this is in no way comprehensive, or even completely technically correct, but it should help you visualize it
06-26-07, 11:16 AM
#42
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Alright...
Parts list for running 12lbs on stock turbo.
-bigger fuel pump (walbro 255lph), and rewire it
-550/720 (minimum) injector setup
-boost controller (you will likely need this after porting your wastegate to get the 12lbs you want)
-fuel controller (I run the rtek 2.0 and love it)
*BTW the 2.1 will NOT eliminate the AFM, but that will be in a future update supposedly
*If you go with an S-AFC for a controller you will also need an FCD (which is built into the rtek 2.0)
Another thing, expect boost creep after the 3" exhaust. So get it, some don't. I personally (with an RB turbo back exhaust) on an s5 turbo hit 12lbs immediately and would creep to 13-14 (NOT GOOD). Soooo....port the crap out of your wastegate and use a boost controller to get the boost level you want.
I'd recommend a wideband controller of some sort, but not really necessary. Also, get a good boost gauge if you don't have one already....that's a must have.
Parts list for running 12lbs on stock turbo.
-bigger fuel pump (walbro 255lph), and rewire it
-550/720 (minimum) injector setup
-boost controller (you will likely need this after porting your wastegate to get the 12lbs you want)
-fuel controller (I run the rtek 2.0 and love it)
*BTW the 2.1 will NOT eliminate the AFM, but that will be in a future update supposedly
*If you go with an S-AFC for a controller you will also need an FCD (which is built into the rtek 2.0)
Another thing, expect boost creep after the 3" exhaust. So get it, some don't. I personally (with an RB turbo back exhaust) on an s5 turbo hit 12lbs immediately and would creep to 13-14 (NOT GOOD). Soooo....port the crap out of your wastegate and use a boost controller to get the boost level you want.
I'd recommend a wideband controller of some sort, but not really necessary. Also, get a good boost gauge if you don't have one already....that's a must have.
06-26-07, 12:32 PM
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Alright...
Parts list for running 12lbs on stock turbo.
-bigger fuel pump (walbro 255lph), and rewire it
-550/720 (minimum) injector setup
-boost controller (you will likely need this after porting your wastegate to get the 12lbs you want)
-fuel controller (I run the rtek 2.0 and love it)
*BTW the 2.1 will NOT eliminate the AFM, but that will be in a future update supposedly
*If you go with an S-AFC for a controller you will also need an FCD (which is built into the rtek 2.0)
Another thing, expect boost creep after the 3" exhaust. So get it, some don't. I personally (with an RB turbo back exhaust) on an s5 turbo hit 12lbs immediately and would creep to 13-14 (NOT GOOD). Soooo....port the crap out of your wastegate and use a boost controller to get the boost level you want.
I'd recommend a wideband controller of some sort, but not really necessary. Also, get a good boost gauge if you don't have one already....that's a must have.
Parts list for running 12lbs on stock turbo.
-bigger fuel pump (walbro 255lph), and rewire it
-550/720 (minimum) injector setup
-boost controller (you will likely need this after porting your wastegate to get the 12lbs you want)
-fuel controller (I run the rtek 2.0 and love it)
*BTW the 2.1 will NOT eliminate the AFM, but that will be in a future update supposedly
*If you go with an S-AFC for a controller you will also need an FCD (which is built into the rtek 2.0)
Another thing, expect boost creep after the 3" exhaust. So get it, some don't. I personally (with an RB turbo back exhaust) on an s5 turbo hit 12lbs immediately and would creep to 13-14 (NOT GOOD). Soooo....port the crap out of your wastegate and use a boost controller to get the boost level you want.
I'd recommend a wideband controller of some sort, but not really necessary. Also, get a good boost gauge if you don't have one already....that's a must have.
What’s up buddy? I’m curious to know how much you paid for your Innovate LC-1 Wideband Controller with XD-1 Gauge. Also where do you recommend that I can buy a Koyo radiator at a good price? Also your Greddy water temp gauge how do you have it installed in your car? Did you have to tap and drill a fitting in order to install it? I have read before I don’t know where though, that there is a correct way to install the gauge and the sender unit in order to get an accurate reading.
Please let me know where I can get an LC-1 Wideband at a good price as well.
Any websites or info will be useful. Thank you
06-26-07, 01:16 PM
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06-26-07, 02:01 PM
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What’s up buddy? I’m curious to know how much you paid for your Innovate LC-1 Wideband Controller with XD-1 Gauge. Also where do you recommend that I can buy a Koyo radiator at a good price? Also your Greddy water temp gauge how do you have it installed in your car? Did you have to tap and drill a fitting in order to install it? I have read before I don’t know where though, that there is a correct way to install the gauge and the sender unit in order to get an accurate reading.
Please let me know where I can get an LC-1 Wideband at a good price as well.
Any websites or info will be useful. Thank you
Please let me know where I can get an LC-1 Wideband at a good price as well.
Any websites or info will be useful. Thank you
On the water temp gauge...the best 2 places I've heard from all my research is either in the stock gauge location which requires having it rethreaded to fit the new aftermarket sender or drilling and tapping the water pump housing for the sender.
06-30-07, 08:24 AM
#49
sometimes I can't help myself.
you know, it's like I'm reading the posts and I wanna say something too...
Don't get me wrong I'm interested in a/f ratios and wideband monitors( i want the NGK A/Fx personally) and all that, I just enjoy reading threads that have definitive answers, concise questions that evoke condensed, agreeable information I can take with me.
This thread is just very similar to a number of other threads, though i guess it's hard to avoid repeating things on here. I just find that if I'm grossly ignorant in one particular area ,I'll often read up as much as I can on the FAQ's and other posts, like try to get a basic understanding and narrow down my questions to specifics.
I'd be more to prone to asking for someone’s help in identifying a specific injector make, where to find new injector connectors or how to rewire my fuel new 255lph fuel pump. Even then, I could probably, and have already, found that kind of stuff by searching previous threads.
Maybe it’s just me, I know it’s only my opinion.
I’m running an Rtek7 Stage 2.0 ECU w/ (4) Venom 720cc injectors(w/ new connectors), a 255lph rewired fuel pump and new rubber fuel lines, currently a stock fpr. But my Rtek7 allows me to control those injectors unlike the OP. I don’t know howmuch boost I’m creating but I’ve been babying it under 3500rpms, when I drive it at all, till I get the A/Fx installed, get my turbo rebuilt and the FMIC. I have a brand new motor and don’t want to even chance it…
And I wanted to keep my car reliable, I wouldn’t be pushing 12lbs of boost with a stock(old) turbo and no fuel controller on a 20yr old motor….but again maybe that’s just me..
I didn’t mean to offend the OP, or you Phoenix.
you know, it's like I'm reading the posts and I wanna say something too...
Don't get me wrong I'm interested in a/f ratios and wideband monitors( i want the NGK A/Fx personally) and all that, I just enjoy reading threads that have definitive answers, concise questions that evoke condensed, agreeable information I can take with me.
This thread is just very similar to a number of other threads, though i guess it's hard to avoid repeating things on here. I just find that if I'm grossly ignorant in one particular area ,I'll often read up as much as I can on the FAQ's and other posts, like try to get a basic understanding and narrow down my questions to specifics.
I'd be more to prone to asking for someone’s help in identifying a specific injector make, where to find new injector connectors or how to rewire my fuel new 255lph fuel pump. Even then, I could probably, and have already, found that kind of stuff by searching previous threads.
Maybe it’s just me, I know it’s only my opinion.
I’m running an Rtek7 Stage 2.0 ECU w/ (4) Venom 720cc injectors(w/ new connectors), a 255lph rewired fuel pump and new rubber fuel lines, currently a stock fpr. But my Rtek7 allows me to control those injectors unlike the OP. I don’t know howmuch boost I’m creating but I’ve been babying it under 3500rpms, when I drive it at all, till I get the A/Fx installed, get my turbo rebuilt and the FMIC. I have a brand new motor and don’t want to even chance it…
And I wanted to keep my car reliable, I wouldn’t be pushing 12lbs of boost with a stock(old) turbo and no fuel controller on a 20yr old motor….but again maybe that’s just me..
I didn’t mean to offend the OP, or you Phoenix.
