What rpm do ported engine idle at?
#26
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Still, that's very low.
Ah, I see. I had never heard of "Tom's Racing" until it was mentioned in your thread and a Google search just turned up a page in Japanese with a Flash animation that was taking 5 minutes to load. I don't follow racing much.
Still not enough vacuum.
Based on the video, I'd say you're running on one rotor.
If the compression is good, then it's going to be an electrical problem.
Pull the plugs (you did put in new plugs, right?) and compare the front and rear plugs. I suspect you'll find one set that looks good (though black with carbon) and another set that is either bone dry or sopping wet with fuel.
If it's bone dry, the injector is not firing.
If it's sopping wet, then the plug is not firing.
I find that a mechanics stethescope is the best tool for diagnosing a possible injector issue.
Do you have a build sheet for the engine? Pictures of the build? Without those, the engine is still a big question mark.
Ah, I see. I had never heard of "Tom's Racing" until it was mentioned in your thread and a Google search just turned up a page in Japanese with a Flash animation that was taking 5 minutes to load. I don't follow racing much.
Still not enough vacuum.
Based on the video, I'd say you're running on one rotor.
If the compression is good, then it's going to be an electrical problem.
Pull the plugs (you did put in new plugs, right?) and compare the front and rear plugs. I suspect you'll find one set that looks good (though black with carbon) and another set that is either bone dry or sopping wet with fuel.
If it's bone dry, the injector is not firing.
If it's sopping wet, then the plug is not firing.
I find that a mechanics stethescope is the best tool for diagnosing a possible injector issue.
Do you have a build sheet for the engine? Pictures of the build? Without those, the engine is still a big question mark.
#27
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i have a mechanic stehoscope i'll check tomorrow
you think in the newest video its running on one rotor?
if anything its a wiring problem...i still have to work out the bugs...i'm not sue if the bac is working right....it clicks but when i un plug it it doesn't drop the idle any?
keep in mind i never worked on a running rotary....i just put everything together from the books still familiarizing myself with stuff
the computer is tuned for a highflow fuel pump and i still have the stocker in ....wouldn't that effect my idle
i used an old gasket on the UIM too twice now
i have all winter to get it running mint....if i have to rebuild it i won't really care
but right now there is no smoke at all? i don't know if that good or bad...
you think in the newest video its running on one rotor?
if anything its a wiring problem...i still have to work out the bugs...i'm not sue if the bac is working right....it clicks but when i un plug it it doesn't drop the idle any?
keep in mind i never worked on a running rotary....i just put everything together from the books still familiarizing myself with stuff
the computer is tuned for a highflow fuel pump and i still have the stocker in ....wouldn't that effect my idle
i used an old gasket on the UIM too twice now
i have all winter to get it running mint....if i have to rebuild it i won't really care
but right now there is no smoke at all? i don't know if that good or bad...
#28
Crash Auto?Fix Auto.
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Yep. I'm just not sure for which reason - plug, injector (wiring for either) or compression.
Not like this. And what "highflow" pump was the car tuned on?
There's a possible vac leak culprit, but its also easy to access/check.
Get new plugs, run the car for a good 1/2 hour, pull them and check. They'll tell the story, well at least they'll tell you where to find the story.
There's a possible vac leak culprit, but its also easy to access/check.
Get new plugs, run the car for a good 1/2 hour, pull them and check. They'll tell the story, well at least they'll tell you where to find the story.
#29
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There's one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb that nobody seems to see or mention in the above posts. It's the significance of the 1100 rpm figure.
Over 1100-1200 rpm the ECU advances the timing from minus 5L and minus 20T. If a regular engine is slowly rev'd above 1100rpm, the timing goes to plus 12-13 for both L and T (if held just above 1200 steady).
My way of saying the timing gets retarded below the 1100rpm figure, so the tone etc of the engine will change.
I'd set the timing with a timing light and the rpms well under 900 rpms and then see what happens. If you've already done that, then ignore this post.
Over 1100-1200 rpm the ECU advances the timing from minus 5L and minus 20T. If a regular engine is slowly rev'd above 1100rpm, the timing goes to plus 12-13 for both L and T (if held just above 1200 steady).
My way of saying the timing gets retarded below the 1100rpm figure, so the tone etc of the engine will change.
I'd set the timing with a timing light and the rpms well under 900 rpms and then see what happens. If you've already done that, then ignore this post.
Last edited by HAILERS; 12-14-07 at 05:45 PM.
#30
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thanks hailers....i'll mess around with that today.....I think i might have a problem gettin the ecu to switch to diagnostics mode (grounding that pin)
is there anyway to tell if its goin in diagnostics mode?....when i ground the test pin on my mx3 the check engine light flashes and you can tell the differance with the idle.....but on the rx7 theres no differance....i have the test pin connector pliced to the switch solenoid wire?
i might just try groundin it out right at the ecu and see....i'll have it figured out today
when i unplug my BAC when its idling it doesn't drop like it sais it should in the FSM?
i'm goin to switch back to the spark plug wires and coils it came with...i'd put the coils and plug wires of my 13b n/a motor when i was trying to get it running right...i know the coils won't really make a differance but the spark plug wires might
is there anyway to tell if its goin in diagnostics mode?....when i ground the test pin on my mx3 the check engine light flashes and you can tell the differance with the idle.....but on the rx7 theres no differance....i have the test pin connector pliced to the switch solenoid wire?
i might just try groundin it out right at the ecu and see....i'll have it figured out today
when i unplug my BAC when its idling it doesn't drop like it sais it should in the FSM?
i'm goin to switch back to the spark plug wires and coils it came with...i'd put the coils and plug wires of my 13b n/a motor when i was trying to get it running right...i know the coils won't really make a differance but the spark plug wires might
#31
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IF the rpms are over approx 750-800rpm, removing the plug from the bac will have NO effect on the engine speed.
IF the engine was idling around 750 or so, THEN removing the plug from the bac would most likely have an effect on the idle speed.
I've no experience with series five diagnostics. None at all other than reading about how if you gnd that single socket green connector, that will cause it to go into that diagnostic mode. Seried four are different.
EDIT: I forgot. You have a series five ECU and motor in a series four car and spliced/diced the wiring to fit. So I see where you might have to go directly to the ECU to gnd the right wire and then look for codes using????a LED with power to it and then the codes from the ECU would pulse a gnd to that LED to make it flash.
IF the engine was idling around 750 or so, THEN removing the plug from the bac would most likely have an effect on the idle speed.
I've no experience with series five diagnostics. None at all other than reading about how if you gnd that single socket green connector, that will cause it to go into that diagnostic mode. Seried four are different.
EDIT: I forgot. You have a series five ECU and motor in a series four car and spliced/diced the wiring to fit. So I see where you might have to go directly to the ECU to gnd the right wire and then look for codes using????a LED with power to it and then the codes from the ECU would pulse a gnd to that LED to make it flash.
Last edited by HAILERS; 12-15-07 at 11:17 AM.
#33
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thats what i was thinking about the ecu...i double checked the timing when i kick it below the 1k mark it the timing marks go on....but theres a couple things
have you guys saw a N374 BAC valve....theres no idle adjust screw...i was messin with me TB before
i bet a higher base fuel pressure at idle will help it out..
i could live with a higher idle either way
have you guys saw a N374 BAC valve....theres no idle adjust screw...i was messin with me TB before
i bet a higher base fuel pressure at idle will help it out..
i could live with a higher idle either way
#34
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i think i've basically got it figured out.....the TPS on the S5 is automatically adjusted by the ECU, my S4 throttlecable is about 1cm to shortso i have it back as fas as it'll go but it held my TB open a bit and the ECU adjusted the TPS to that....because when i test the TPS when it should be closed was alittle bit higher than normal unless i took the throttle cable off it reads within spec.
so it would be as if the TPS is off abit
I'm goin to oval the holes on the throttle cable bracket to set it forward more and give me some more room for adjustment....clear the ecu's memory so it resets the TPS reading and i think that should clear up the idle problem
I know you guys have your heart set on it running on one rotor....but i'm not goin to tear the motor apart over poor sound quality and people getting confused over a huge exhaust leak .....loosen off the flange at the downpipe to the cat or test pipe so theres a HUGE *** LEAK and see if it sounds like mine
I might not be that familiar with rotaries yet but i am with motors in general and i can figure out any motor.....i spliced in the S5 engine into the S4 chassis with a couple hours of work and basically the only person that actually helped was HAILERS....I keep waiting for this to get hard but it still hasn't yet.... I had a minor set back...but it was my fault but its in starts up perfectly...its not idling perfect yet...but guaranteed once i fix that it will...all this with never even doin so much as an oil change on a running rotary...
so when you guys try to tell me that i can't tell the differance of an exhaust leak from a blown motor ...it doesn't sit to well with me
so it would be as if the TPS is off abit
I'm goin to oval the holes on the throttle cable bracket to set it forward more and give me some more room for adjustment....clear the ecu's memory so it resets the TPS reading and i think that should clear up the idle problem
I know you guys have your heart set on it running on one rotor....but i'm not goin to tear the motor apart over poor sound quality and people getting confused over a huge exhaust leak .....loosen off the flange at the downpipe to the cat or test pipe so theres a HUGE *** LEAK and see if it sounds like mine
I might not be that familiar with rotaries yet but i am with motors in general and i can figure out any motor.....i spliced in the S5 engine into the S4 chassis with a couple hours of work and basically the only person that actually helped was HAILERS....I keep waiting for this to get hard but it still hasn't yet.... I had a minor set back...but it was my fault but its in starts up perfectly...its not idling perfect yet...but guaranteed once i fix that it will...all this with never even doin so much as an oil change on a running rotary...
so when you guys try to tell me that i can't tell the differance of an exhaust leak from a blown motor ...it doesn't sit to well with me
#35
Engine, Not Motor
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The reason people say it sounds like one rotor is because it's very obvious when an engine is running with one rotor freewheeling. There's a clear missing stroke. Even with a maladjusted TPS and the engine idling like poop, the difference between one rotor and two is very distinct.
Some of us here have years of rotary experience and can recognize things like this immediately. I myself have been doing this since before you could legally drive.
I could be wrong, it could just be the crappy sound in the video. YouTube's audio is horrid and can introduce all sorts of artifacts. However I just listened to it again and I don't hear a 2nd rotor.
Here's a proper sounding engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxbLDJEPI
Notice the difference in sound?
Some of us here have years of rotary experience and can recognize things like this immediately. I myself have been doing this since before you could legally drive.
I could be wrong, it could just be the crappy sound in the video. YouTube's audio is horrid and can introduce all sorts of artifacts. However I just listened to it again and I don't hear a 2nd rotor.
Here's a proper sounding engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxbLDJEPI
Notice the difference in sound?
#36
PURIST
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To OP: You have a problem with your motor somewhere, as all of these FC guys who have YEARS of experience(Aaron and Karack) are telling you. Fixing your throttle cable to lower the idle isnt going to fix your problem internally(or electically). I suggest you listen to what they say and find the REAL problem.
#37
Mazda Tech
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Your being stubborn, maybe if you would have done what the experienced builders told you to do you could have solved the problem a long time ago and you could be driving the car right now..I just watched both videos and its blatantly obvious that its running on 1 rotor IMO...listen to the knocking and uneven noises..it sounds a lot like a piston motor unbalanced, down a cylinder.
#38
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why is there no shake above 1250rpm only running at 50% would have somewhat of a shake at all rpm
you guys tune your own engine.....what happens if you lean it out to much at idle idle ?? probably gets a shake to it doesn't it?
a properly adjusted TPS, high flow fuel pump,and a properly adjusted throttle cable should clear up my idle problem
keep in mind the 2 places you hear the engine is through the intake and exhaust....in my case i have a huge exhaust leak popping and distorting the actual sound of the engine ....when you are standing right there you can distinguish the sounds better than a crappy video...in that last clip i never revved it above 3000rpm
you guys tune your own engine.....what happens if you lean it out to much at idle idle ?? probably gets a shake to it doesn't it?
a properly adjusted TPS, high flow fuel pump,and a properly adjusted throttle cable should clear up my idle problem
keep in mind the 2 places you hear the engine is through the intake and exhaust....in my case i have a huge exhaust leak popping and distorting the actual sound of the engine ....when you are standing right there you can distinguish the sounds better than a crappy video...in that last clip i never revved it above 3000rpm
#39
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Your being stubborn, maybe if you would have done what the experienced builders told you to do you could have solved the problem a long time ago and you could be driving the car right now..I just watched both videos and its blatantly obvious that its running on 1 rotor IMO...listen to the knocking and uneven noises..it sounds a lot like a piston motor unbalanced, down a cylinder.
#40
Crash Auto?Fix Auto.
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The biggest thing that does it for me (after watching the entire vid and not just the first 5 seconds listening for porting overlap) is the revs.
Even a light stab of the throttle should get a much better sound/response/speed of reaction from the engine in neutral. Which, sure, you can hear an exhaust leak, but the leak sound doesn't contribute to the speed and reaction heard when its revved a bit.
Try some fresh plugs and go from there.
Even a light stab of the throttle should get a much better sound/response/speed of reaction from the engine in neutral. Which, sure, you can hear an exhaust leak, but the leak sound doesn't contribute to the speed and reaction heard when its revved a bit.
Try some fresh plugs and go from there.
#41
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yeah i have to switch the plugs for sure....the ones that have been in it are the ones it came with.....i bought some after i had flooded those out....and when i was messing around with it i didn't wanna screw up my new $50 set of plugs so i left the originals in it and haven't switched them back yet
but those old ones were flooded many times lol they didn't work till after they dried for a couple days
i should have changed them back before...now that i think of it i haven't had the new plugs in since i fixed the fuel injectors
but those old ones were flooded many times lol they didn't work till after they dried for a couple days
i should have changed them back before...now that i think of it i haven't had the new plugs in since i fixed the fuel injectors
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thate engine is definatly not running well, as these guys above me have said the inches of mercury is a good indicator of the health of the engine.. My engine running on 1 rotor would pull 10 in hg. definatly start by doing a compression test otherwise your other checks are just going to ruin the engine more
#43
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I'm not saying that the engine is blowing, just that it really, really, really sounds like it's running on one rotor.
The timing could be horribly off (has it been verified?), there could be an injector misfiring, etc. Did you ever check the plugs?
you guys tune your own engine.....what happens if you lean it out to much at idle idle ?? probably gets a shake to it doesn't it?
1. Begin to have a distinct "brap". Won't shake too much
2. As you go leaner, it will begin to hunt
3. Start to misfire, which will cause shaking, but it will still be running on two rotors
4. Finally, when you get past the point of misfiring, it will simply stall
a properly adjusted TPS, high flow fuel pump,and a properly adjusted throttle cable should clear up my idle problem
While the TPS can cause idle issues (mainly hunting, or high or low idle) it won't cause the timing to be radically retarded or the engine to sound like it's missing a rotor.
#44
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any progress on this?
igoring people's suggestions is just going to keep you running around in circles. as said, put a clean set of plugs in it and run it for about 1/2 hour and pull them out and inspect, if one still looks new as the moment you put it in with a little oil film on it then you are not getting combustion on that rotor meaning you have faulty injector wiring, a sticky injector, faulty ECU, spark issue on that plug or internal engine issue.
i never said it for sure was the engine at fault but it sure as heck sounds like it's running on 50-75% power after watching you tap the throttle and the lack of response in combination with the poor idle quality and distinct sound of a lack of even tone from the engine and exhaust. even an exhaust leak is easily noted due to a more even and powerful note vs a lawnmower-ish tone.
whenever you have an issue such as this ALWAYS start with the basics: fuel, ignition and compression... verify engine compression, this only takes at most 10 minutes to verify and ignoring it is only going to cost you more time. spark is also easy to verify, i doubt i need to explain this one. fuel is a little trickier, since the engine is running at this moment in time you can verify it is running rich or lean by removing a vacuum ported nipple at or before the throttle body without interrupting the AFM readings as much as possible and spraying some carburetor cleaner or ether into the port, if it smooths out then it is running lean somehow, if it stumbles more then it is running rich which also can mean it is loaded on one rotor and now getting way too much fuel with this test.
igoring people's suggestions is just going to keep you running around in circles. as said, put a clean set of plugs in it and run it for about 1/2 hour and pull them out and inspect, if one still looks new as the moment you put it in with a little oil film on it then you are not getting combustion on that rotor meaning you have faulty injector wiring, a sticky injector, faulty ECU, spark issue on that plug or internal engine issue.
i never said it for sure was the engine at fault but it sure as heck sounds like it's running on 50-75% power after watching you tap the throttle and the lack of response in combination with the poor idle quality and distinct sound of a lack of even tone from the engine and exhaust. even an exhaust leak is easily noted due to a more even and powerful note vs a lawnmower-ish tone.
whenever you have an issue such as this ALWAYS start with the basics: fuel, ignition and compression... verify engine compression, this only takes at most 10 minutes to verify and ignoring it is only going to cost you more time. spark is also easy to verify, i doubt i need to explain this one. fuel is a little trickier, since the engine is running at this moment in time you can verify it is running rich or lean by removing a vacuum ported nipple at or before the throttle body without interrupting the AFM readings as much as possible and spraying some carburetor cleaner or ether into the port, if it smooths out then it is running lean somehow, if it stumbles more then it is running rich which also can mean it is loaded on one rotor and now getting way too much fuel with this test.
#45
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I haven't had a chance to do anything lately, with the holiday's and we've been havin alot of crappy weather....
I got my FMIC finally and i'm just waiting for a 90 degree elbow coupler to come in
if you noticed in the video i have my airfilter stickin out on a 45 degree angle and my IC piping has a 180 degree pvc plumbing pipe routing it from the turbo to the TB
i'm goin to wait till i can run it with the intake piping set up normally right now its all rigged up just to run it
there must have been a small leak somewhere....i'll have to wait and see
i fixed my throttle cable bracket so it not holdin it open a bit anymore
once my coupler comes in i'll clear the ecu and try it out with the new plugs and a 100% sealed intake system
I got my FMIC finally and i'm just waiting for a 90 degree elbow coupler to come in
if you noticed in the video i have my airfilter stickin out on a 45 degree angle and my IC piping has a 180 degree pvc plumbing pipe routing it from the turbo to the TB
i'm goin to wait till i can run it with the intake piping set up normally right now its all rigged up just to run it
there must have been a small leak somewhere....i'll have to wait and see
i fixed my throttle cable bracket so it not holdin it open a bit anymore
once my coupler comes in i'll clear the ecu and try it out with the new plugs and a 100% sealed intake system
Last edited by FC3Sdrift; 12-31-07 at 01:51 PM.
#46
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sorry.... i'm a stubborn ***!!
I found out today it is running on one rotor....i pulled the plugs wires off the one rotor and it still runs the same
so i triple checked the compression....it is good i have a video i'll post up later today of the compression tester gauge
i verified it does have spark
so it leaves one thing i must have a stuck/plugged fuel injectorafter its been running theres only alittle bit of moisture/gas on the trailing and the leading plug is bone dry
what do you guys suggest i do about that ....pull the injectors out test them and have them cleaned?
with the compression it has it and spark with even the least bit of fuel it should fire?
and those plugs should be soaked
I found out today it is running on one rotor....i pulled the plugs wires off the one rotor and it still runs the same
so i triple checked the compression....it is good i have a video i'll post up later today of the compression tester gauge
i verified it does have spark
so it leaves one thing i must have a stuck/plugged fuel injectorafter its been running theres only alittle bit of moisture/gas on the trailing and the leading plug is bone dry
what do you guys suggest i do about that ....pull the injectors out test them and have them cleaned?
with the compression it has it and spark with even the least bit of fuel it should fire?
and those plugs should be soaked
#47
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i got it figured out it was a problem with the ecu
heres some videos of it
running on both rotors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWDfva41scQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QqTdm5MXtQ
this one is on a video camera and my dad copied it with the sound down so you have to crank the speakers up to hear it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0O4z1vC8Os
what kind of port job do you guys think this has
heres some videos of it
running on both rotors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWDfva41scQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QqTdm5MXtQ
this one is on a video camera and my dad copied it with the sound down so you have to crank the speakers up to hear it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0O4z1vC8Os
what kind of port job do you guys think this has
#49
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i blew up one of the mufflers lol....its split right down th whole thing....plus thats with a n351
if i can't get it goin with the tuned eprom i'm just goin to get megasquirt
if i can't get it goin with the tuned eprom i'm just goin to get megasquirt