What makes power in a rotary engine?
05-14-08, 08:04 PM
#26
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i would buy a TII or an FD if you are just planning on going turbo later
most people I have talked to that have either tried or known someone that has tried a turbo swap kick them selfs in the *** for not just going turbo in the first place, its alot easier to upgrade a turbo engine than to add on turbo
since you are getting an 89 you have a decent start being S5, they do have more power than S4 and would be more easily upgraded
I would start by reading the Sticky at the top of this section that Says FAQ, lots of helpful info in there for beginners, and here is a decent pic for you
most people I have talked to that have either tried or known someone that has tried a turbo swap kick them selfs in the *** for not just going turbo in the first place, its alot easier to upgrade a turbo engine than to add on turbo
since you are getting an 89 you have a decent start being S5, they do have more power than S4 and would be more easily upgraded
I would start by reading the Sticky at the top of this section that Says FAQ, lots of helpful info in there for beginners, and here is a decent pic for you
05-14-08, 08:35 PM
#27
I'm sorry... I didn't explain properly. Venturi effect... When a pipe diameter goes from larger to smaller there is an acceleration of the air flow through the passage.
Meaning that port area does not necessarily equal more air flow. whats important is maintaining velocity of air through the port. As far as charge temp and density these can be altered through a cold air box and proper intake piping and header wrapping and underhood temperature control.
These are basic engine dynamics and are beyond dispute. Cooler air means more molecules of air to combust. Turbo charging reduces the critical problems of intake length that are necessary for an NA to make effective power at higher rpm's, but does not eliminate the port velocity and mass of moving air in motion that drives high hp output.
It's all about the flow of the air fuel mixture through the intake & ports into the combustion chamber. Just as velocity stacks improve flow in a piston(yuk) engine the same is true for a rotary. To deny this is to reveal yourself as ignorant to the laws of physics and the motion of fluids through an enclosure.
We hold these truths to be self evident. All motors being equal under the creator that which has more flow & velocity shall surely dominate & hold to being totally silly those that choose to make their ports larger and sacrifice the accelerated flow of the almighty fuel/air mixture.
It takes velocity to move the mixture into the combustion chamber. you could port your intake till the cows come home but if its not tuned properly for volume & velocity than your just pissing in the wind. You might as well just hook up some dryer vent hose and call it an intake velocifier.
Fact is it takes some experimentation and measurement and calculation to come up with the right combination. Back-pressure has a significant to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Pressure of the intake charge has a significant role to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Timing has..... Split timing has.... ect.....
Sorry.... It's just all interconnected and no one person has all of the answers. It would be alot easier if someone had it all figured out, but it just isn't like that.
I'm not trying to make enemies or **** anyone off. I apologize for my condescending attitude. Just trying to help.
Ramses666
Meaning that port area does not necessarily equal more air flow. whats important is maintaining velocity of air through the port. As far as charge temp and density these can be altered through a cold air box and proper intake piping and header wrapping and underhood temperature control.
These are basic engine dynamics and are beyond dispute. Cooler air means more molecules of air to combust. Turbo charging reduces the critical problems of intake length that are necessary for an NA to make effective power at higher rpm's, but does not eliminate the port velocity and mass of moving air in motion that drives high hp output.
It's all about the flow of the air fuel mixture through the intake & ports into the combustion chamber. Just as velocity stacks improve flow in a piston(yuk) engine the same is true for a rotary. To deny this is to reveal yourself as ignorant to the laws of physics and the motion of fluids through an enclosure.
We hold these truths to be self evident. All motors being equal under the creator that which has more flow & velocity shall surely dominate & hold to being totally silly those that choose to make their ports larger and sacrifice the accelerated flow of the almighty fuel/air mixture.
It takes velocity to move the mixture into the combustion chamber. you could port your intake till the cows come home but if its not tuned properly for volume & velocity than your just pissing in the wind. You might as well just hook up some dryer vent hose and call it an intake velocifier.
Fact is it takes some experimentation and measurement and calculation to come up with the right combination. Back-pressure has a significant to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Pressure of the intake charge has a significant role to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Timing has..... Split timing has.... ect.....
Sorry.... It's just all interconnected and no one person has all of the answers. It would be alot easier if someone had it all figured out, but it just isn't like that.
I'm not trying to make enemies or **** anyone off. I apologize for my condescending attitude. Just trying to help.
Ramses666
05-14-08, 09:09 PM
#28
I'm sorry... I didn't explain properly. Venturi effect... When a pipe diameter goes from larger to smaller there is an acceleration of the air flow through the passage.
Meaning that port area does not necessarily equal more air flow. whats important is maintaining velocity of air through the port. As far as charge temp and density these can be altered through a cold air box and proper intake piping and header wrapping and underhood temperature control.
These are basic engine dynamics and are beyond dispute. Cooler air means more molecules of air to combust. Turbo charging reduces the critical problems of intake length that are necessary for an NA to make effective power at higher rpm's, but does not eliminate the port velocity and mass of moving air in motion that drives high hp output.
It's all about the flow of the air fuel mixture through the intake & ports into the combustion chamber. Just as velocity stacks improve flow in a piston(yuk) engine the same is true for a rotary. To deny this is to reveal yourself as ignorant to the laws of physics and the motion of fluids through an enclosure.
We hold these truths to be self evident. All motors being equal under the creator that which has more flow & velocity shall surely dominate & hold to being totally silly those that choose to make their ports larger and sacrifice the accelerated flow of the almighty fuel/air mixture.
It takes velocity to move the mixture into the combustion chamber. you could port your intake till the cows come home but if its not tuned properly for volume & velocity than your just pissing in the wind. You might as well just hook up some dryer vent hose and call it an intake velocifier.
Fact is it takes some experimentation and measurement and calculation to come up with the right combination. Back-pressure has a significant to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Pressure of the intake charge has a significant role to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Timing has..... Split timing has.... ect.....
Sorry.... It's just all interconnected and no one person has all of the answers. It would be alot easier if someone had it all figured out, but it just isn't like that.
I'm not trying to make enemies or **** anyone off. I apologize for my condescending attitude. Just trying to help.
Ramses666
Meaning that port area does not necessarily equal more air flow. whats important is maintaining velocity of air through the port. As far as charge temp and density these can be altered through a cold air box and proper intake piping and header wrapping and underhood temperature control.
These are basic engine dynamics and are beyond dispute. Cooler air means more molecules of air to combust. Turbo charging reduces the critical problems of intake length that are necessary for an NA to make effective power at higher rpm's, but does not eliminate the port velocity and mass of moving air in motion that drives high hp output.
It's all about the flow of the air fuel mixture through the intake & ports into the combustion chamber. Just as velocity stacks improve flow in a piston(yuk) engine the same is true for a rotary. To deny this is to reveal yourself as ignorant to the laws of physics and the motion of fluids through an enclosure.
We hold these truths to be self evident. All motors being equal under the creator that which has more flow & velocity shall surely dominate & hold to being totally silly those that choose to make their ports larger and sacrifice the accelerated flow of the almighty fuel/air mixture.
It takes velocity to move the mixture into the combustion chamber. you could port your intake till the cows come home but if its not tuned properly for volume & velocity than your just pissing in the wind. You might as well just hook up some dryer vent hose and call it an intake velocifier.
Fact is it takes some experimentation and measurement and calculation to come up with the right combination. Back-pressure has a significant to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Pressure of the intake charge has a significant role to play. Temperature has a significant role to play. Timing has..... Split timing has.... ect.....
Sorry.... It's just all interconnected and no one person has all of the answers. It would be alot easier if someone had it all figured out, but it just isn't like that.
I'm not trying to make enemies or **** anyone off. I apologize for my condescending attitude. Just trying to help.
Ramses666
Hello there Ramses , Gilbert saying hello once again it looks like you got a heck of a memory back
. This is sort of what we were conversating about today. On the intake length even on a turbocharged it matters the longe its a balance of everything .measurment and calculation its what it comes down to , keep up the good work and it waqs nice meeting you
. Will let you know on the next rotary drag event
05-14-08, 10:51 PM
#29
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iraq is good for something
05-15-08, 08:29 AM
#32
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yeah.. I get the big picture now.. I understand how they work.. If I do get a turbo'd motor, im rebuilding before it goes in.. and I will probably give it a port.. it will need to last a while..
Im familiar with tuning, and am aware of what it can do to a motor if done improperly..
I just want something sporty that will get me from a-b, so I can save the cash for the turbo swap..
Im familiar with tuning, and am aware of what it can do to a motor if done improperly..
I just want something sporty that will get me from a-b, so I can save the cash for the turbo swap..
05-15-08, 08:32 AM
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And i cannot afford one right now... Im very mechanically inclined, and am very confident I could do that swap, as there really isnt that much to it... If I can convert a 6 cylinder nova to a v8 with a th350 and posi, then I think I can do the swap.. haha
05-15-08, 12:14 PM
#34
Bolt-Ons: High flow catalytic converter, mufflers. Bonez and Racing Beat are popular for good reason. Also check out www.aaroncake.net to make sure your 5th and 6th ports (auxillary ports) are still working. There are a couple other minor things like the cone + cold-air box mentioned, but those 3 are the big items. A lot of people swear by headers, but I haven't seen good verifiable numbers for a rotary. Racing Beat outright recommends against it if you keep the fuel injection, and they sell a good header (which they recommend if you get a carb). At the same time they sell a piston engine header for the Miata that does make power. That and the fact that the cheap brands are the ones making the high power claims should tell you something.
Tuning: SAFC, rtek, or a stand-alone ECU. Overly-aggressive tuning could instantly blow your motor without much warning and not necessarily right away. So you gotta be careful here.
Engine: If you open up and rebuild the engine (~$3k) you can get a street port while you're at it. You can get more from a bridgeport but most people don't because, among other reasons, it's a huge hit to mpg and emissions. There are no cams or valves in a rotary. A larger port is the rough equivalent of getting the valves to open wider and longer. The auxillary ports, which activate to add port area only at higher rpms, are the rough equivalent of VTEC.
Turbo: The best option is usually to swap in an entire turbo motor or just start with a turbo car. The $1.5k JDM swaps often need a rebuild shortly after installation. Putting a turbo on an NA is typically harder and more expensive.
All of the above are significant. Search the forums for more info.
Tuning: SAFC, rtek, or a stand-alone ECU. Overly-aggressive tuning could instantly blow your motor without much warning and not necessarily right away. So you gotta be careful here.
Engine: If you open up and rebuild the engine (~$3k) you can get a street port while you're at it. You can get more from a bridgeport but most people don't because, among other reasons, it's a huge hit to mpg and emissions. There are no cams or valves in a rotary. A larger port is the rough equivalent of getting the valves to open wider and longer. The auxillary ports, which activate to add port area only at higher rpms, are the rough equivalent of VTEC.
Turbo: The best option is usually to swap in an entire turbo motor or just start with a turbo car. The $1.5k JDM swaps often need a rebuild shortly after installation. Putting a turbo on an NA is typically harder and more expensive.
All of the above are significant. Search the forums for more info.
RB Headers are not used by many serious NA road racers because of their lack of performance. The one to get nowadays is ISC, since Speedsource stopped making FC products. If you do go with RB because of their good reputation, the Road Race Exhaust System is the one to get, which makes the most power out of any of their exhaust configurations (The others being NA downpipe + pre-silencer or Header + pre-silencer). They do recommend this one over their others.....funny, that this one has a header.
For a streetable exhaust system, RX7.com has a RB header into a Bonez High-flow Cat.
Last edited by Roen; 05-15-08 at 12:23 PM.
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