wet plugs - very hard start - runs good
08-21-01, 02:56 PM
#1
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wet plugs - very hard start - runs good
HI all - My first post here.
88 RX7 non-turbo convertible 13b motor.
Started as intermittent problem. Car was hard to start. The on-site fix was to disconnect the outer injectors and once it was running plug them back in.
Eventually it just wouldn't start. The fix then was to remove all of the plugs and shake off all of the gas that was on them, wait till the chambers dried reinstall the plugs and then "maybe".
Took it to Mazda in Thousand Oaks. They replaced the WTR Temp sensor (on back of water pump) but it didn't fix it. I have checked all of the injectors, replaced all of the vacuum hoses but I can't find the problem.
Car runs good if I can get it started except that it idles at 2k or above. This idle anomoly started out as intermittent also but is constant now.
Hoping someone here is familiar with this problem.
Danilo
88 RX7 non-turbo convertible 13b motor.
Started as intermittent problem. Car was hard to start. The on-site fix was to disconnect the outer injectors and once it was running plug them back in.
Eventually it just wouldn't start. The fix then was to remove all of the plugs and shake off all of the gas that was on them, wait till the chambers dried reinstall the plugs and then "maybe".
Took it to Mazda in Thousand Oaks. They replaced the WTR Temp sensor (on back of water pump) but it didn't fix it. I have checked all of the injectors, replaced all of the vacuum hoses but I can't find the problem.
Car runs good if I can get it started except that it idles at 2k or above. This idle anomoly started out as intermittent also but is constant now.
Hoping someone here is familiar with this problem.
Danilo
08-21-01, 03:07 PM
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i had a similar problem with my '84 GSL-SE. mine turned out to be leaky injectors. even a fuel cut-off switch didn't help. how did you "check" the injectors?
my symptoms were as described by previous owner - pulled off trailing plugs and when it started and was about to die put them back. ran ok for awhile, then it just started getting harder and harder until one day it wouldn't start.
after i bought the car and opened up the plugs they were DRENCHED in fuel.
my symptoms were as described by previous owner - pulled off trailing plugs and when it started and was about to die put them back. ran ok for awhile, then it just started getting harder and harder until one day it wouldn't start.
after i bought the car and opened up the plugs they were DRENCHED in fuel.
08-21-01, 03:14 PM
#3
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Well, I pulled out all of the injectors and left them hooked up to the harness. Then I turned the ignition on without cranking it and no gas leaking at all. Probably not the best way to check them. I did replace one of them.
From what you said I think I need to investigate the proper way to check the injectors.
By the way, the car starts easily when it is hot.
Car has 160,000 miles on motor.
Danilo
From what you said I think I need to investigate the proper way to check the injectors.
By the way, the car starts easily when it is hot.
Car has 160,000 miles on motor.
Danilo
08-21-01, 03:24 PM
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I just put my engine in 700 miles ago, and it starts REAL hard the first time of the day... Then idles great and the rest of the day starts up perfect... Right now I do not have a water thermo sensor on the back of my water pump..
Your compression is good right?
Your compression is good right?
08-22-01, 12:03 AM
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Ok Danilo, you had the right idea to check the injectors, you just missed a step. When you turn on the ignition without cranking, you do NOT turn on the fuel pump. No pressure, no leakage, of course. To properly do this test, put a jumper in the 2-wire green connector on the passenger side of the engine compartment, then turn on the ignition. The fuel pump will run as long as you leave the ignition on. Good luck locating the problem!
Irv, Keith's dad
Irv, Keith's dad
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08-23-01, 12:14 AM
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I own a FD so I don't know if my advice may help. I would suspect a vacuum leak either in the intake manifold or a vac hose. Also, I would scan the computer for possible codes. That will tell you if sensors are bad and need replacements. On a FD, there is a way to short the diagnosis port in the eng bay and read the code by counting the flashing 'check engine' light. U can also have the dealer read it w/ a code scanner.
I would get this fixed soon. It looks like your car is running too rich. If you can't find the problem soon, you should take it to a rotary specialist and seek professional help before something bad goes down. Good luck!
I would get this fixed soon. It looks like your car is running too rich. If you can't find the problem soon, you should take it to a rotary specialist and seek professional help before something bad goes down. Good luck!
08-23-01, 01:24 AM
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What's a FD? Well, I already have $600 into this repair having taken it to 2 places including the Mazda dealer and I'm right where I started. I'm bummed. Another thing it's doing is fouling brand new plugs.
The car has had a few overheating episodes so there's a various soup mix of stop leaks in the motor. The last incident got pretty ugly with alot of water getting in the chambers. The stop leaks seem to have it under control though.
I put a brand new set of NGK plugs in yesterday and got it started, but this morning none of the plugs would fire. Put in some old plugs and they fire just fine. I'm fearful to take it anywhere else and plonking more $ just for them to diagnose that they need to diagnose more and not finding the prob.
So I'm searching the net for possible solution.
Danilo
The car has had a few overheating episodes so there's a various soup mix of stop leaks in the motor. The last incident got pretty ugly with alot of water getting in the chambers. The stop leaks seem to have it under control though.
I put a brand new set of NGK plugs in yesterday and got it started, but this morning none of the plugs would fire. Put in some old plugs and they fire just fine. I'm fearful to take it anywhere else and plonking more $ just for them to diagnose that they need to diagnose more and not finding the prob.
So I'm searching the net for possible solution.
Danilo
08-23-01, 11:51 AM
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HAILERS
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Sorry, I feel like being cruel today. Your engine, as you suspect, is toast. Gone **** up. Do not waste a single dollar doing a thing to that engine unless you rebuild it. Its money down the drain. On the other hand if you don't travel more than five miles from home and plan on dumping the car on the side of the road when it finally gives up, replace the plugs when required. The soup in the radiator and the engine is going to make the radiator useless in the future when the engine gets rebuilt. Use it up, wear it out , make it do or do without. I have to admit it is fun in a way to make a broken thing work long after it should have died. Good luck and have fun. All the above was written mostly as humor, no true meanness intended. Humor. Edit......Have you considered rebuilding it yourself? That 600 bucks would have covered at lot of the parts required. The factory manual is on line and there is a THING called the Haynes manual at the auto stores for pitance. Its a fun thing to do. You'll know what you have when through and have confidence to travel out of state. Seriously consider that route. Please.
Last edited by HAILERS; 08-23-01 at 11:55 AM.
08-23-01, 12:26 PM
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On a more helpful note, its possible that the rich/lean pot is adjusted too much towards the R or rich side of the pot. Your idle mixture is controled by this pot when at idle, and idle only. Its located near the r/h strut tower just aft of the airfilter. Its black in color, body is somewhat oval in shape, and has a screw in the center of the smokestack that is in the center of the body. Turning the screw clockwise enrichens the mixture and anticlockwise rotation leans it out. Turn slowly if you mess with it. Normal position is somewhere in the middle. Turn the screw both ways to the stops on each end and get an idea where the center is. Note where it was before you turned it . On a weak engine you can turn this clockwise fully and I think you'll find after a few starts the engine will be reluctant to start. Another possibility to get you thru this period before YOU rebuild the engine is to make a fuel pump cut switch. Seeing as you have a lot of flooding you should want it next to the driver so you can get started right away when it floods at a stop lite. If this catches your attention we can tell you how to make one.
08-23-01, 04:03 PM
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No offense taken. I can take the brutal truth. Yeah I was just trying to squeeze another breath or 2 out of the poor beast. I've rebuilt small block chevys from ground up but never a rotary. Couldn't be that difficult except for some special tools required (extra expense). My only other transpo at the moment is a motorcycle (I hate it actually) so lugging the engine hoist back and forth would be a considerable hassle with renting a truck and all. I think maybe I'll cut my losses on this otherwise great car and sell it for junk or a fixer. Shame really cause the car looks bitchin and has many new parts but the fix/what it's worth ratio just doesn't add up anymore.
It might make a nice centerpiece for a bonfire and a roasty marshmellowfest.
I'll try your suggestions and take your advice about the cash thing.
You guys are great.
Danilo
It might make a nice centerpiece for a bonfire and a roasty marshmellowfest.
I'll try your suggestions and take your advice about the cash thing.
You guys are great.
Danilo
08-23-01, 04:09 PM
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I have to agree with Hailers - it does sound like your engine is toast. if you've rebuilt small block chevies then you shouldn't have much problem with the rotaries. from what i've heard it's got much less pieces to work with than a piston engine.
you can always part out your car...go to thepartstrader.com and advertise there.
too bad you're in cali, i would have bought your car and taken a swing at fixing it. transport fee to texas would be worth as much as the car itself...
you can always part out your car...go to thepartstrader.com and advertise there.
too bad you're in cali, i would have bought your car and taken a swing at fixing it. transport fee to texas would be worth as much as the car itself...
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