weird starting problem w/ my TII conversion???????
04-13-03, 12:15 AM
#26
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my 86 non turbo had the same starting problem. it seems that even a half dead starter......doest show bad at the store when tested.......will take enough juice away from the ignition system to stop it from starting. replace the starter and everything should be fine...worked for me
I sooo badly hope that works, otherwise I'll be re-wiring the entire car. and I hate electrical stuff!!!
04-13-03, 12:22 AM
#28
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uh, I'd kinda feel bad to keep asking for more from him. I might just be able to get this one fixed for a decent price. we'll see.
do you know anyone with an N/A auto? that starter would work.
do you know anyone with an N/A auto? that starter would work.
04-13-03, 12:26 AM
#29
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yeah, autos are even harder to find than TII's.
hmmmmmmm.... There's gotta be a way. Sure it's impossible to rig up an N/A one to work? If not we gotta start calling junkyards.
hmmmmmmm.... There's gotta be a way. Sure it's impossible to rig up an N/A one to work? If not we gotta start calling junkyards.
04-13-03, 07:34 AM
#30
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You won't find the connector at the back of the alternator. On a N/T the connector is part of the emissions harness which runs on the right side of the engine (the one you replaced with a turbo harness).
On a Turbo car its located on the Engine harness, the one that runs on the left side of the engine.
On a 87 N/T that is being converted to a turbo.....there is no reasonable reason to change the harness b/t cars.
There are but five wires that are different and that can be overcome with ease.
One difference is pin 3D.. Its used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a turbo (87model). On the N/T 3D goes to the inhibitor switch. Ignore it all together.
Pin 2K is for the split air solenoid on a N/T but is for the twin scroll solenoid on a Turbo. Just splice a piece of wire into the wire so it can reach the twin scroll solenoid or relocate the twin scroll solenoid.
1R is for the power steering switch on a N/T but is for the Knock control unit on a Turbo. Just run the wire to the Knock sensor. Big deal. (Plus running the other three wires to the knock sensor that are not from the ECU such as a 12v source to it, a wire to the knock sensor itself, a ground wire) childs play.
Pin 1C is for the air bypass solenoid on a N/T but is used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a Turbo. You don't need a fuel pump resistor relay etc so ignore this wire all together.
Your idiot lights will always light up til you run a wire to the CPU which in turn activates a relay that turns on/turns off the idiot lights as the alternator comes on line.
The ECU grounds are under the intake manifold. A gang of black wires on a circular lug. MUST be connected to the engine block.
On a Turbo car its located on the Engine harness, the one that runs on the left side of the engine.
On a 87 N/T that is being converted to a turbo.....there is no reasonable reason to change the harness b/t cars.
There are but five wires that are different and that can be overcome with ease.
One difference is pin 3D.. Its used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a turbo (87model). On the N/T 3D goes to the inhibitor switch. Ignore it all together.
Pin 2K is for the split air solenoid on a N/T but is for the twin scroll solenoid on a Turbo. Just splice a piece of wire into the wire so it can reach the twin scroll solenoid or relocate the twin scroll solenoid.
1R is for the power steering switch on a N/T but is for the Knock control unit on a Turbo. Just run the wire to the Knock sensor. Big deal. (Plus running the other three wires to the knock sensor that are not from the ECU such as a 12v source to it, a wire to the knock sensor itself, a ground wire) childs play.
Pin 1C is for the air bypass solenoid on a N/T but is used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a Turbo. You don't need a fuel pump resistor relay etc so ignore this wire all together.
Your idiot lights will always light up til you run a wire to the CPU which in turn activates a relay that turns on/turns off the idiot lights as the alternator comes on line.
The ECU grounds are under the intake manifold. A gang of black wires on a circular lug. MUST be connected to the engine block.
04-13-03, 10:06 AM
#31
Originally posted by HAILERS
You won't find the connector at the back of the alternator. On a N/T the connector is part of the emissions harness which runs on the right side of the engine (the one you replaced with a turbo harness).
On a Turbo car its located on the Engine harness, the one that runs on the left side of the engine.
On a 87 N/T that is being converted to a turbo.....there is no reasonable reason to change the harness b/t cars.
There are but five wires that are different and that can be overcome with ease.
One difference is pin 3D.. Its used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a turbo (87model). On the N/T 3D goes to the inhibitor switch. Ignore it all together.
Pin 2K is for the split air solenoid on a N/T but is for the twin scroll solenoid on a Turbo. Just splice a piece of wire into the wire so it can reach the twin scroll solenoid or relocate the twin scroll solenoid.
1R is for the power steering switch on a N/T but is for the Knock control unit on a Turbo. Just run the wire to the Knock sensor. Big deal. (Plus running the other three wires to the knock sensor that are not from the ECU such as a 12v source to it, a wire to the knock sensor itself, a ground wire) childs play.
Pin 1C is for the air bypass solenoid on a N/T but is used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a Turbo. You don't need a fuel pump resistor relay etc so ignore this wire all together.
Your idiot lights will always light up til you run a wire to the CPU which in turn activates a relay that turns on/turns off the idiot lights as the alternator comes on line.
The ECU grounds are under the intake manifold. A gang of black wires on a circular lug. MUST be connected to the engine block.
You won't find the connector at the back of the alternator. On a N/T the connector is part of the emissions harness which runs on the right side of the engine (the one you replaced with a turbo harness).
On a Turbo car its located on the Engine harness, the one that runs on the left side of the engine.
On a 87 N/T that is being converted to a turbo.....there is no reasonable reason to change the harness b/t cars.
There are but five wires that are different and that can be overcome with ease.
One difference is pin 3D.. Its used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a turbo (87model). On the N/T 3D goes to the inhibitor switch. Ignore it all together.
Pin 2K is for the split air solenoid on a N/T but is for the twin scroll solenoid on a Turbo. Just splice a piece of wire into the wire so it can reach the twin scroll solenoid or relocate the twin scroll solenoid.
1R is for the power steering switch on a N/T but is for the Knock control unit on a Turbo. Just run the wire to the Knock sensor. Big deal. (Plus running the other three wires to the knock sensor that are not from the ECU such as a 12v source to it, a wire to the knock sensor itself, a ground wire) childs play.
Pin 1C is for the air bypass solenoid on a N/T but is used for the fuel pump resistor relay on a Turbo. You don't need a fuel pump resistor relay etc so ignore this wire all together.
Your idiot lights will always light up til you run a wire to the CPU which in turn activates a relay that turns on/turns off the idiot lights as the alternator comes on line.
The ECU grounds are under the intake manifold. A gang of black wires on a circular lug. MUST be connected to the engine block.
nice to see someone else who has looked at the wiring
diagrams and done this swap wiring right, when I was
doing this swap everyone got on my case and told me
to read the instructions on a "website", but this
site didn't mention anything about the wiring differences,
my conversion works great, I figured out the above
on my own, even if I might have done a couple things differently.
if the above has not been done on this type of swap
its not done right.
As for the alt wiring I added a couple extra wires to the
TII harness and connected them to where the n/a alt
wires went which was a connector near the computer,
then used the plug off of the removed split air solenoid
for the plug to the alt.
matt
04-13-03, 01:36 PM
#33
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well, I just tried push starting it, and it didn't work. it actually locked the tires one time. WTF is going on??
could it still just be the starter going bad? or gone bad?
could it still just be the starter going bad? or gone bad?
04-13-03, 06:54 PM
#36
Rotary Enthusiast
when you push start it try using a higher gear and go faster. Try rolling it down the hill till you hit like 30 then drop it into 3rd. It'll suck if you have to push it back up though.
I think it's definitely an electrical problem. Try looking for any missing grounds, maybe even add some, and really look it over for shorts. Also try doing those things that HAILERS suggested.
I think it's definitely an electrical problem. Try looking for any missing grounds, maybe even add some, and really look it over for shorts. Also try doing those things that HAILERS suggested.
04-13-03, 07:57 PM
#39
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dead. I'm sure there is a short. I just don't know where. I hope its in the starter.
teh things hailers said shouldn't have anyhting to do with a short or a starting problem, they're just things that need to be done with the TII swap. right?
teh things hailers said shouldn't have anyhting to do with a short or a starting problem, they're just things that need to be done with the TII swap. right?
04-13-03, 09:12 PM
#40
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www.rx7world.com has new FC starter motors. His listing doesn't differentiate between NA and TII, only auto and manual. I'd take that to mean that the TII doesn't need a different kind of starter.
http://rx7world.com/usedparts/Engine...c/electric.htm
You shouldn't need to remove the starter when you go to pull start it. The motor only engages when you put power to it (ie turn the key.)
As for your battery being dead - did you run it down while trying to start your 7? Whenever you are having problems trying to start a 7, especially when unflooding, it's a very good idea to jumper your battery to another running car. You won't run your own battery down and you'll have the best chance of starting the car since the starter motor will be spinning t full speed...
http://rx7world.com/usedparts/Engine...c/electric.htm
You shouldn't need to remove the starter when you go to pull start it. The motor only engages when you put power to it (ie turn the key.)
As for your battery being dead - did you run it down while trying to start your 7? Whenever you are having problems trying to start a 7, especially when unflooding, it's a very good idea to jumper your battery to another running car. You won't run your own battery down and you'll have the best chance of starting the car since the starter motor will be spinning t full speed...
04-13-03, 09:57 PM
#41
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally posted by Amur_
You shouldn't need to remove the starter when you go to pull start it. The motor only engages when you put power to it (ie turn the key.)
You shouldn't need to remove the starter when you go to pull start it. The motor only engages when you put power to it (ie turn the key.)
04-13-03, 11:40 PM
#42
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okay. I charged started to charge the battery, but my dad unplugged it last night, so it only had 10 volts when we tried to push start it, but it shouldn't really need any, should it?(for push starting). anyway, we got it up to about 20mph and let out the clutch in 2nd. the RPM came up to about 1000, and I thought it started, so I pushed in the clutch, and it just went back down again(never started). tried it a couple more times, and still no luck. by this time, the battery was barely above 8volts on stock voltmeter, and when we were completely finished, there was NO power. no lights, no door open beep, nothing. also, one time when we tried push starting it, the tires locked.
I was thinking, could the starter motor possibly be stuck engaged?
I guess I'll try using another N/A starter, and see if that makes a difference.
I was thinking, could the starter motor possibly be stuck engaged?
I guess I'll try using another N/A starter, and see if that makes a difference.
04-13-03, 11:46 PM
#43
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Sorry I didn't put this up sooner...
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/motor/brea.../bumpstart.htm
Just trying offer more ideas.
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/motor/brea.../bumpstart.htm
Just trying offer more ideas.
04-14-03, 04:37 AM
#44
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OK, friend of mine, he often buys cars from auctions, those cars usually sits for very long time.
what he does is: pull (or push) your car with another car, minimum 20-30 mph, and then put in second! otherwise it wont fire!!! that what he does!!! and it works!
what he does is: pull (or push) your car with another car, minimum 20-30 mph, and then put in second! otherwise it wont fire!!! that what he does!!! and it works!
04-14-03, 06:47 AM
#45
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IF you have a digital meter of some sort, go to the Lead coil assy. The small white plug on it shoud have 12v on the black/yellow wire. Forget about the other of the two wires. That's indeterminate.
If you have the 12v at the black/yellow wire, check for the fuel pump working by jumpering the fuel pump check connector at the right hand strut tower. JUmper it and turn the key to ON and listen at the rear for the fuel pump running.
OOOOps. I just had a evil thought. I don't know what year your car is. Say its a 86 or early 87 car, say chassis number 550168 and older. They had something called a solenoid resistor located under the afm. Located below it and attached to the fender/chassis. Aluminium cover on it. Now if you got the ECU out of newer model car, maybe the injectors are not getting their source of voltage. I have not really thought this out very much, but its a possibiltiy..
Uncover your ECU . Pull the small plug off. Put a meter on the plug and see if you have 12v at the injector wires. LIght green/black, light green/red, light green/white, and just light green. All should have 12v on them with the key to ON.
Here's a jpg with the plugs. Looking at the wire side of the plugs. reads from right to left. What I'm attaching is for 86-88 I forget if turbo or not right now. No real difference.
If you have the 12v at the black/yellow wire, check for the fuel pump working by jumpering the fuel pump check connector at the right hand strut tower. JUmper it and turn the key to ON and listen at the rear for the fuel pump running.
OOOOps. I just had a evil thought. I don't know what year your car is. Say its a 86 or early 87 car, say chassis number 550168 and older. They had something called a solenoid resistor located under the afm. Located below it and attached to the fender/chassis. Aluminium cover on it. Now if you got the ECU out of newer model car, maybe the injectors are not getting their source of voltage. I have not really thought this out very much, but its a possibiltiy..
Uncover your ECU . Pull the small plug off. Put a meter on the plug and see if you have 12v at the injector wires. LIght green/black, light green/red, light green/white, and just light green. All should have 12v on them with the key to ON.
Here's a jpg with the plugs. Looking at the wire side of the plugs. reads from right to left. What I'm attaching is for 86-88 I forget if turbo or not right now. No real difference.
Last edited by HAILERS; 04-14-03 at 06:50 AM.
04-14-03, 07:03 AM
#48
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Sorry about the cluttered jpg in one of the above replys. Damn thing put 'em side by side and makes it hard to navigate around. I'd certainly check the small plug for voltage on the injector wires/pins. Connector does not have to be connected to see the 12v on the harness side. The voltage originates at a place other than the ECU.
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