trust7

So intermittently I get stuck somewhere in my T2 now was seeming like low battery but grabbed a new battery tonight and was still stuck, I can hold the key wide open and move the clutch in and out and it clicks the disengage switch like it should, and vice versa for clutch in moving key back and forth but no start.

There is a sound under the hood like a clicking, but I have never had a starter just "fail" intermittently like this, is that what this is ?


C

Icemark

Clicking = bad battery or battery connections or bad starter solenoid.

Do your headlights and horn work?

what is the voltage when trying cranking

trust7

Headlights power, horn works, and theres no real "clicking" per say its just a very very mild soft "tattering" when holding clutch and key down and in start position sounds very very quiet. I know the click click of dead battery sound and this is not it, matter of fact most people probably would not even hear this its so quiet. Its basically like turn key nothing, brand new battery even, could it be the solenoid just completely out ?

trust7

Also no idea how to check voltage when cranking, where do I hook my voltmeter up to check the voltage at crank time ?

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

Did your car have factory security? Is it still there?

Icemark

Yep, could be the factory starter kill relay clicking then if it is not a real click

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

I had that problem before. Sometimes it would start sometimes it wouldn't. You'd have to try the key 10-15 times before it would work sometimes. It was a headache until I figured it out.

trust7

coxxoc LOL!!!! well ? ................. What WAS it ? LOL.

Ice where is the factory starter kill relay clicking and what causes that ?

And to answer yes the car still has its factory security, which I personally like, but could disable as a test or something to troubleshoot if you guys have a suggestion.

Let me know its my daily and its starting to put a cramp in my getting around ;/

TY!

trust7

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2593146

This seems like exactly whats happening, juice pull, no nada otherwise, could this be it ?

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

I think it is under the trailing coil.

HAILERS

If you know where the THEFT unit is, you could disconnect it and try starting again. If it still won't start, then it probably isn't the Starter Cut Relay.

If you have access to under the car, and the car is out of gear, you can pull the small wire off the starter solenoid. Then with the shank of a screwdriver, jumper b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the terminal on the starter that has the LARGE wire on it. Starter now turns over if it's any good and the battery is any good. Key does not have to be in the ignition.

You'd jumper b/t A and C in the attached jpg. A will have the large wire mentioned in the paragraphs above.

Kandle's rx7

i had the same problem. it was actually a few problems. i thought my starter had died but, i just cleaned the connections to the starter and it worked just fine. a few months later it did die. got a new starter, still just made a click. changed battery. click again. changed main starter relay and it worked. so. i would suggest take ur starter and go get it cheked at an auto store for free then build from there

trust7

Picture of the or location of the main starter relay ? because its either that or the starter solenoid I think. ???

Carlz0r

I had the exact same issue. Turns out that my starter brushes were worn down. I bought new brushes and used fine sand paper to bring the copper they contact back to a nice fresh shine (it was all black when I took it apart) and it works perfectly now.

hurleysurf24

iTrader: (3)

i made a troubleshooting thread on this .... search for it.

HAILERS

EDITED: I think the Starter Cut Relay is located near the MAIN RELAY in the engine bay

Pull its plug off and jumper batt voltage to the Black/White wire and the starter should turn over if the starter and it's solenoid are good.

OR pull the relay off and see if there is a gnd to the LG/Y wire(comes FROM the CPU) in that plug. Lg/Y puts a gnd on the relay to prevent starting. Gnd comes from the Theft circuit.

OR depin the Lg/Y wire at the relays plug and then reinstall the plug on the relay and go start the car. IF the car does not start, then it's not Theft related.


OR, last:

Get a long shank screwdriver. Make contact b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the post on the starter solenoid that has the cable from the positive side of the battery. The starter should turn over and will run your *** over if the car is in gear. No key required in the ignition when you do that. Car will not START but the starter SHOULD turn over and spin the engine, more or less proving the starter and its solenoid are GOOD and that the problem lies in the small wires circuit from the solenoid to the ignition switch.

The sound under the hood when you hold the key to Start, is probably the starter solenoid pulling in, meaning the Starter Cut Relay is good and the clutch interlock switch are good. What is bad? Got me. Could replace the whole starter, could replace the solenoid, could replace the starter brushes. The thing is, the solenoid may be pulling in (the click) AND the power could be getting to the brushes inside the starter, but if the brushes are worn to a nub, the darn thing isn't going to turn over. The brushes might not be touching the armature is what I'm saying when I say the brushes MIGHT be worn to a nub.

If you jump batt voltage to the black/white wire and the starter engages each time, then I'd say the starter is good. Or if you use the screwdriver shank to touch the small blade to the large wire on the solneoid and the starter engages each time, then I'd say the starter is good. Either method does the same thing. EAsier to put batt voltage to the black/white wire on the relays plug. No getting under the car that way.

trust7

Ok so pulled the wire from the spade touched screwdriver from spade to the only post that had a big wire, sparks etc but no engage so I think starter is toast, ordered one from o'reilly there was one in all of Texas lol hard starter to find.

It will be here today, the actual solenoid was almost twice the price of an entire starter so no dice there. Will install new started and advise tonight or tomorrow of status, thanks for all the help everyone, hope this is it but could be a dual problem.

trust7

So I replaced the starter and vroom vroom started right up, the solenoid I think was bad, they have no replacement parts here in Texas for just the solenoid so the starter was the only option and even then only ONE store had it even available O'reilly's 80.00 with a 40.00 core. Thanks to everyone for the info it will assist in further diagnosis, seems I have a current draw also draining the battery, possibly an alternator dying but not sure.

Anyhow thanks folks

C

HAILERS

Coulda been the solenoid but also coulda been the brushes in the starter itself. Both items cost thirty bucks each. Sometimes if the brushes are bad, you can smack the side of the starter with a hammer and get it to work........for a short period of time. What happens, I think, is the brushes are really worn to a nub, and if you smack the body of the starter somehow the brushes again make contact with the commutator and varooom.

A source for the brushes is NAPA. I couldn't find 'em until someone post that info on this forum last yr.

trust7

Yeah, Napa was my first stop actually, I asked about the solenoid and the starter there just happened not to ask about the brushes but they had no stock on either the sol/start so I went down to azone, then pep, then oreilly finally oh well 80 bucks isnt the end of the world, didnt want to spend it but sok.