Newbs

I'm doing a rebuild on my 91 N/A and I see a significant difference in price between OEM mazda oil o-rings ($100) and Atkins Viton oil rings ($40). I searched but all I found was one post saying Viton's only last 20,000 and they're junk. What do you guys think? Anyone used Viton oil o-rings with long term success?
It seems like this is a part of the rebuild you don't want to go cheap on.

Thanks for your input,

Brian

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Ive used atkins viton seals in over 100 engines now with great success. Somebody was posting bullshit about the 20k thing...viton last LONGER than oem style seals. I've torn down previous rebuilds with them installed and they came out like new. I would never pay for oem oil orings.

Goofy

I'd guess whoever said they only last 20k tried it once, installed it wrong, had them fail, then paid someone to do the engine the next time.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

lasted much longer than that in my engine and many of my customer's engines, whoever said 20k didn't know what they were saying/doing.

Newbs

Thanks guys. I am going with Viton. It looks like it's a safer and cheaper alternative to OEM.

Brian

Kyrasis6

Viton is one of the best, or the best rubbers you can make an O-ring out of. In our piston race engines we use Viton O-rings and seals in places to last 500 miles at 9,000 rpm where a standard rubber one wouldn't last through some practice laps.

If wrongly used or installed they will fail just like any other o-ring though.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I think the post he saw about the 20k failure is by Blake from Pineapple racing, so it isn't someone just posting random junk. Here is the post:
That is on his random engine building tips thread in the pineapple vendor section.

I personally have no experience with them, I am just reposting where he got his original information.
The stock oil control rings lasted 215k in my engine and were still going strong when the coolant seals took a crap. The way I see it, I would rather spend an extra 60 bucks on something I know will work than cut corners and have it possibly fail. In fact, I am going to use the mazda comp oil control rings in my rebuild.

NOPR

installing viton o-rings is a HUGE bitch.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Blake's whole thread is here:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=575631

They don't seem to like Viton o-rings.

Newbs

So the debate continues...

Atkins Dan

I am with Kevin on this one as I have used these for years with no problems and this goes long before I started selling them, and I have at least 1000+ engines out there on the pavement and in other offroad uses too...

Dan Atkins

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

OUt of boredom I have read through the PR thread above and I have to disagree with many of their points. Every builder has their own way of doing things and their own opinions, though. I have seen MANY stock oil control rings flatten after only 70-80k miles. Every engine I pull apart, to include some mazda remans with <40k on them, have the stock inner oil control rings flattened to the point that they simply fall out of the rotor upon disassembly. I'd be interested to hear blake's assessment of this, if he doesnt consider it a failure then I dont know what is.

I always find it entertaining to read commentaries by other builders swearing that a certain method isn't useful or acceptable, knowing that I have been doing it with success for years. They say that no engine is going to last more than a year or 2 with used rotorhousings, yet mazda and myself have been building them for a long time and they seem to hold up just fine.

They say that non oem metal apex seals are junk except for the purpose of trial and error tuning (WTF?) yet plenty of people run aftermarket metal seals and reliably make more than 400rwhp.

They say that viton oil rings are useless inside an engine while the soft OEM's are superior, yet I find that the OEM's are always flat as a pancake upon disassembly while the vitons I have seen are always mint condition upon disassembly.

KillaKitiie

Be nice if he could chim in...this thread would get interesting fast.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, maybe we should get banzaitoyota in here, too...he used to be one of their staunchest supporters, but sings a different tune these days. Maybe that "trout" guy too.

I might build budget motors with used housings (floorsweepers according to PR) but I think I have a better reputation/fewer negative comments than they do, so that tells you what I think of their opinions.

Atkins Dan

Yes it would...

KillaKitiie

I read floorsweepers and pictured a large floor buffer with a 13b on top..lol whats that supposed to mean anyway?

Rotory Revalution

it means that they are used parts from various sources instead of new parts or rebuild parts(like refinishing something)

Icemark

I too have used Viton oil and dowel and Oil pedistal O rings for years with no problems, but granted unlike Dan, Ben and Kevin, I only rebuild a couple motors per year.

But like Kevin mentioned, you can pull a motor built with Viton seals back apart and re-use the O rings again... something you can't do with the OEM O rings past 20K miles.

Plus Pineapple does have an approach to a few things that I would never consider, and my dealings with Blake in the past here on this board have left me unwilling to ever send them any of my money, (despite my high opinion of Rob) so I take Blake's recommendations against Viton rings with the value of a grain of salt.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Good to hear all your opinions on the viton o-rings. My engine was rebuilt with them, but it died a mysterious death at 25k so I can't vouch for how they lasted. There was so much carbon in the front rotor I can't tell if anything was reusable.

On Blakes thread, I think it has some good info for people that are looking to rebuild the engine. At the very least, it has stuff for you to read up on, research, and come to your own conlusions about it.

rootsgroup

OK, nobody knows me. My last 40 years of engine building/rebuilding has ranged from briggs to 8v71 Detoit diesel and everything in between. I've been a service mgr and worked in the parts stores as well. I know full well the advantages of viton o-rings.

And my 87 GXL engine was rebuilt by myself. I used Dan's kit and a used housing from Kevin. The engine now has 60k and runs stronger than ever. These guys have the stuff and experience. If anyone is unsure of the advantages of viton in this environment, look no further than these two.


Carl Root

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Just stumbled upon this thread again while searching for something else. I thought I'd add that in the year since my last post I've torn down 2 more motors that had viton oil seals installed prior. One was a couple years old with 15-18k on it that died due to RA seals chewing the rotorhousings up and losing compression, and one was 3-4 years old with unknown miles on it that had a nut dropped down in the intake manifold and broke the apex seals.

The viton oil orings inside both motors look like new. There is barely even a flat spot on them, you can almost not even tell they were installed. They are still proper dimension and pliable, and nowhere near the point of degradation that oem seals are after having been used.