Vibrating Steering Wheel (Please HELP)
02-28-04, 03:22 PM
#1
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Vibrating Steering Wheel (Please HELP)
OK Ive asked before and gotten little help besides check your alignment and CV joints, I think both are alright is there anything else on these cars that will make my steering wheel vibrate at speed over 50mph? The vibration sometimes dissapears for a mile or two then comes back, it doesn't matter if i'm in a turn or going straigh anytime i'm over around 50mph my wheel wiggles back and forth like an inch or 2, the car still feels prettty steady though please help my car is mint exept for this
02-28-04, 03:40 PM
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I had a problem like that. I found out that it was the tires. The took the tires off the rim and showed me the inside. You could see how the belts were broke. It leaves a distinct mark on the inside of the tire. You can feel it from the outside too but you have to know what you are feeling for.
02-28-04, 06:59 PM
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How are your wheels?
Or your lug nuts?
** all of the above from posts to rec.autos.rotary...
You can check yerself for wobbly wheels, preferably with a dial gauge,
but the following is almost as accurate. Get the wheels off the ground
(preferably the whole car up on jackstands). Clamp a pencil in line with
a vise-grip. Using something solid, like 4x4s, a stack of Bibles,
whatever, make a stand up to the level of the rim on which you can lay
the vise-grips. Put the pencil point agianst the rim inside the lip
(which may be dinged) and gently rotate the wheel. The wheel should
touch all the way around. If it does not (and assuming the bearings are
good) you have a buggered wheel. Throw it away.
Do the same thing on the tread at about the midpoint, half way up the
wheel. If the tire is out of round or flat spotted, you need to have it
shaved, then balanced. (Do this after a run to heat the tires, they will
flat spot sitting over night.)
If a front end shop does not shave tires, they are NOT into high
performance and you need to find another shop, although it is rare that
a new high performance tire needs to be shaved. Find a GOOD shop and pay
them whatever they ask, bow and scrape, kiss their ***, whatever it
takes to get on their right side and stay there.
but the following is almost as accurate. Get the wheels off the ground
(preferably the whole car up on jackstands). Clamp a pencil in line with
a vise-grip. Using something solid, like 4x4s, a stack of Bibles,
whatever, make a stand up to the level of the rim on which you can lay
the vise-grips. Put the pencil point agianst the rim inside the lip
(which may be dinged) and gently rotate the wheel. The wheel should
touch all the way around. If it does not (and assuming the bearings are
good) you have a buggered wheel. Throw it away.
Do the same thing on the tread at about the midpoint, half way up the
wheel. If the tire is out of round or flat spotted, you need to have it
shaved, then balanced. (Do this after a run to heat the tires, they will
flat spot sitting over night.)
If a front end shop does not shave tires, they are NOT into high
performance and you need to find another shop, although it is rare that
a new high performance tire needs to be shaved. Find a GOOD shop and pay
them whatever they ask, bow and scrape, kiss their ***, whatever it
takes to get on their right side and stay there.
Or your lug nuts?
> Anyone, here's a problem I'm dealing with for the last few months.
>
> Problem:
> Steering wheel shakes when I brake at speeds above 50-60 km/h. On some days the shaking is worse than on other days. Steering wheel is fine when driving normally or braking at low speeds.
>
> Things I've tried or noticed:
> -replaced brake pads and rotors with new ones. Did not have any effect on problem.
> -rotated the tires, made sure tire pressure is ok. Did not have any effect on problem. My tires are about 1.5 years old with about 20000km wear so they are still relatively new tires. I inspected the tire treads, they look good with no unusual wear on any of them.
> -the steering rods(tie rods?) do not appear to be loose or worn.
>
> Any ideas what could be the issue? My car is 9 years old about 100000km driven so I'm thinking it might be a worn wheel bearing or other worn part in my steering assembly.
==================================================
==============================
I had the exact same problem as you do, and tried the same 'fixes' you have, including all new wheels and tires, all six new balljoints in front end (2 control arm, 4 tierod), solid rear-steer eliminator bushings, polyurethane bushings in the front, replace driveshaft, replaced all 4 shock absorbers, and swore a helluva lot. Nothing helped!!
I finally fixed the problem after seriously considering selling the car--not that anyone would have wanted it!
The problem was traced to improperly tightened wheel lug nuts. The procedure used to tighten lug nuts is critical if you wish to be able to drive at all speeds with no steering shake. This is especially critical for aluminum wheels which do not have steel inserts around the lug nut holes. These inserts are for reinforcing the metal around the nut, to prevent stretching.
If you wish to know the proper technique for tightening lug nuts, ask me (on the newsgroup) and I will tell you. It's a little lengthy, but if you're interested in how it's really done I'll tell you. Hint: It's not nearly as simple as you thought! (Or as simple as you figured while watching your friendly neighbourhood "certified" auto mechanic do it.)
I have yet to meet ANY certified auto mechanic who has the foggiest idea of how to tighten lug nuts properly.
It's pretty easy, but you have to do it right.
First jack car up to height where the wheel will go on without touching the ground. Then install all lug nuts and tighten by hand, using only the socket--no wrench.
Knowing what the final torque is, tighten the nuts using a torque wrench in the proper sequence, but in 5 foot-pound increments. You know that for 5-nut wheels, you tighten #1, then #3, then #5, then #2 and finally #4. But the real trick is to only tighten them in 5 ft-lb. Increments so that the retaining pressure is applied evenly to the wheel hub. Keep working around the wheel so they have all been tightened to the required torque--and do it without lowering the wheel onto the ground, or using the brakes. Have someone hold the wheel if you have to.
Suppose the spec says "50 foot-pounds".
So, with a torque wrench (I like the bending-beam type, I have no idea how repeatable the snap-action ones are) first install wheel, then run on lug nuts by hand using only the socket. When all nuts are on, tighten by hand using socket. Make sure the wheel is seated properly before continuing
Now get torque wrench and tighten in 1-3-5-2-4 pattern (for 5 nut wheels) or 1-3-2-4 for 4 nut wheels. Tighten all nuts first to 5 foot pounds. Next, starting again at #1, tighten all nuts to 10 foot pounds. Then start at #1 again and tighten all nuts to 15.
Keep going until you reach required torque--then go around AGAIN, reapplying the final torque to all lug nuts.
I find that this method allows the wheels to run at all highway speeds without the steering wheel shaking back and forth. However, you must start with round wheels and round tires, and the combination has to be properly balanced.
Reason is that just slapping the wheel on and reefing up the nuts applies pressure unevenly to the wheel hub, even if all nuts are torqued evenly. The metal squeezes out slightly from around the first few lug nuts, and the stud hole circle enlarges. This causes warping. Now heat the hub up nicely with a scalding hot brake disc, and the unevenness in wheel spoke length will become really obvious to the guy with his hands on the steering wheel.
Some aluminum wheels, like my Eagle 5-spokes, do not have steel inserts around the lug nut holes. This makes the tightening procedure all the more critical, and the final tightening torque must be lower, regardless of what the manual says. I believe my Mazda shop manual specifies lug nut torque at 70 to 80 ft-lb., but in reality, the 16" Eagle 5-spokes must be tightened, sequentially, to only 50 ft-lbs--otherise the steering shakes really badly, to the point where my hands get right bloody numb after 20 minutes. If I do it properly, the wheel is dead smooth at all speeds.
BTW, sometimes I have to do it twice to get it right! You don't have to be quite as **** with the rear wheels, but I'm absolutely picky about the way I tighten the fronts. Lean down so you can really read the torque wrench scale bang-on when doing the fronts. Get someone else to hold the wheel if you have to while tightening.
Apparently engineers have known about this method for tightening high pressure caps and end plates for something like 100 years
>
> Problem:
> Steering wheel shakes when I brake at speeds above 50-60 km/h. On some days the shaking is worse than on other days. Steering wheel is fine when driving normally or braking at low speeds.
>
> Things I've tried or noticed:
> -replaced brake pads and rotors with new ones. Did not have any effect on problem.
> -rotated the tires, made sure tire pressure is ok. Did not have any effect on problem. My tires are about 1.5 years old with about 20000km wear so they are still relatively new tires. I inspected the tire treads, they look good with no unusual wear on any of them.
> -the steering rods(tie rods?) do not appear to be loose or worn.
>
> Any ideas what could be the issue? My car is 9 years old about 100000km driven so I'm thinking it might be a worn wheel bearing or other worn part in my steering assembly.
==================================================
==============================
I had the exact same problem as you do, and tried the same 'fixes' you have, including all new wheels and tires, all six new balljoints in front end (2 control arm, 4 tierod), solid rear-steer eliminator bushings, polyurethane bushings in the front, replace driveshaft, replaced all 4 shock absorbers, and swore a helluva lot. Nothing helped!!
I finally fixed the problem after seriously considering selling the car--not that anyone would have wanted it!
The problem was traced to improperly tightened wheel lug nuts. The procedure used to tighten lug nuts is critical if you wish to be able to drive at all speeds with no steering shake. This is especially critical for aluminum wheels which do not have steel inserts around the lug nut holes. These inserts are for reinforcing the metal around the nut, to prevent stretching.
If you wish to know the proper technique for tightening lug nuts, ask me (on the newsgroup) and I will tell you. It's a little lengthy, but if you're interested in how it's really done I'll tell you. Hint: It's not nearly as simple as you thought! (Or as simple as you figured while watching your friendly neighbourhood "certified" auto mechanic do it.)
I have yet to meet ANY certified auto mechanic who has the foggiest idea of how to tighten lug nuts properly.
It's pretty easy, but you have to do it right.
First jack car up to height where the wheel will go on without touching the ground. Then install all lug nuts and tighten by hand, using only the socket--no wrench.
Knowing what the final torque is, tighten the nuts using a torque wrench in the proper sequence, but in 5 foot-pound increments. You know that for 5-nut wheels, you tighten #1, then #3, then #5, then #2 and finally #4. But the real trick is to only tighten them in 5 ft-lb. Increments so that the retaining pressure is applied evenly to the wheel hub. Keep working around the wheel so they have all been tightened to the required torque--and do it without lowering the wheel onto the ground, or using the brakes. Have someone hold the wheel if you have to.
Suppose the spec says "50 foot-pounds".
So, with a torque wrench (I like the bending-beam type, I have no idea how repeatable the snap-action ones are) first install wheel, then run on lug nuts by hand using only the socket. When all nuts are on, tighten by hand using socket. Make sure the wheel is seated properly before continuing
Now get torque wrench and tighten in 1-3-5-2-4 pattern (for 5 nut wheels) or 1-3-2-4 for 4 nut wheels. Tighten all nuts first to 5 foot pounds. Next, starting again at #1, tighten all nuts to 10 foot pounds. Then start at #1 again and tighten all nuts to 15.
Keep going until you reach required torque--then go around AGAIN, reapplying the final torque to all lug nuts.
I find that this method allows the wheels to run at all highway speeds without the steering wheel shaking back and forth. However, you must start with round wheels and round tires, and the combination has to be properly balanced.
Reason is that just slapping the wheel on and reefing up the nuts applies pressure unevenly to the wheel hub, even if all nuts are torqued evenly. The metal squeezes out slightly from around the first few lug nuts, and the stud hole circle enlarges. This causes warping. Now heat the hub up nicely with a scalding hot brake disc, and the unevenness in wheel spoke length will become really obvious to the guy with his hands on the steering wheel.
Some aluminum wheels, like my Eagle 5-spokes, do not have steel inserts around the lug nut holes. This makes the tightening procedure all the more critical, and the final tightening torque must be lower, regardless of what the manual says. I believe my Mazda shop manual specifies lug nut torque at 70 to 80 ft-lb., but in reality, the 16" Eagle 5-spokes must be tightened, sequentially, to only 50 ft-lbs--otherise the steering shakes really badly, to the point where my hands get right bloody numb after 20 minutes. If I do it properly, the wheel is dead smooth at all speeds.
BTW, sometimes I have to do it twice to get it right! You don't have to be quite as **** with the rear wheels, but I'm absolutely picky about the way I tighten the fronts. Lean down so you can really read the torque wrench scale bang-on when doing the fronts. Get someone else to hold the wheel if you have to while tightening.
Apparently engineers have known about this method for tightening high pressure caps and end plates for something like 100 years
** all of the above from posts to rec.autos.rotary...
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02-28-04, 10:22 PM
#9
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For the first 500 miles you are breaking in your tires... so that might be it. In every non-power steering car I've driven there has been a decent amount of vibration in the wheel alone that did not result in any change of direction. My car gives a slight amount of vibe but nothing big... Good luck
02-29-04, 12:17 AM
#10
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I've had many sets of new tires but, I never experienced vibration during break-in time.
Where have u aquired the tires?
The reason is some of on-line tire places sells tires that are unable to balance (factory blem) and they sell 'em.
Where have u aquired the tires?
The reason is some of on-line tire places sells tires that are unable to balance (factory blem) and they sell 'em.
02-29-04, 01:50 AM
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I had a similar problem when i first got my car. The previous owner had aftermarket wheels and used hub-centric spacers. He left them on when he put the stock wheels back on. I took the wheels off a couple of times and didnt even notice they were there. they caused the wheels to wobble just a little bit and shook the car like hell. also knots and busted chords are pretty common with new tires, as it can happen if the tires aren't mounted with care. If it's shaking the steering wheel, try rotating the front tires to the back, if its in the wheels/tires the vibration should move to the back. just some thoughts.
-E
-E
02-29-04, 06:31 AM
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If the tires loook visably OK, rotate the fronts to the back. If it was one bad front tire the shaking will be reduced significantly and you have found the problem.
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