Very well put. But, which one would have a better chance of keeping up on an autocross track, I really think a vert WITH the 4.1 gears would have an easier time keeping up with the TII. I personally have never drove a hatchback, **** where I come from I've never even seen a hatchback driving around just 3 red verts. But my experience owning a vert has shown me that these cars handle like a $50,000 porsche. Stop trying to knock each others body style, they all look and perform better than most cars out on the market even today. And Overdriven where the hell do you get a bathtub by looking at a vert, one word of advice, stop smoking PCP.

 

I like FDs

 

To defend Overdriven, I also don't like the lines of the vert. The front and sides look fine, but when you get to the rear....I can definitely see what he means by bathtub.

 

Targa top ************* thats all I gotta say, and that any model car with a trunk is better than a hatch expect ae86

 

What do you think the vert weighs then after you throw in the TII drivetrain? a fair bit more i'd imagine. (not saying anything about whether it's worth it or not, TII Verts are cool, just not for me)

 

Wow...thanks for bringing this one back from the dead.

And yes, a TII engine/drivetrain will add more weight (and more power). A TII vert will usually weigh around 3200 lbs, which is quite a bit but its still not as heavy as a Mustang

My personal opinion is this...unless you're going to track the car, will you really notice a few hundred more pounds? My car is driven on the streets 99% of the time. I'd venture to say that many (definitely not all, but many) FC owners will never drive their car hard enough where the weight will make that much of a difference.

 

To continue to beat this back from the dead horse...

The vert is stylish and I like that. I also like that is is even more exclusive than most cars. I see as many verts around town as I do FDs - not many...

What I love about the car is that it is solid. It performs very well for a luxury crusier. Even over railroad tracks it is hard to get it to flex (as compared to by buds camaro - in which you can actually watch the windsheild sway left and right). It is a great all weather car. It has been bulletproof as far as maintenance goes. It is simply a great car.

 

Also (to add to the dead horse) The Vert has all the suspension mods that the coupe is looking for becuase of the added weight. Upgrades on sway bars are just Stock Vert swaybars. think about it. The vert had the best wheels the best springs the best sway bars. A vert will handle.........once you get that N/A rolling.................................

....................You don't have to go to the track to feel the extra weight. When the Previa Minivan leaves you sucking fumes from evey red light in SoCal. You'll start thinking about Mods.

A guy that races (lots) described it this way. During the twisty part of the track you'll be tailgating everybody and once you reach a straight that you COULD pass the others use the HP and leave you behind. Then you catch them again and tailgate through the twisty part of the track.

 

Exactly what I experienced.

 

I understand a lot of people like the vert, and thats fine... I've never driven it, so I dont know how it rides, but I'd never want to -- I hate the way it looks. the coupe looks very, very stylish to me.... but the vert kinda looks like a lebaron. IMO, it really makes the car look like its from the 80s (and not in a cool way). and whats up with the rear? U-G-L-Y.

but to each his own!

 

I think the lebaron actually ruined verts in general for me. btw sorry for the thread rez, I'm at work, and not paying enough attention to detail .

 

About 150 lbs more. to me thats nothing compared to the bang.

 

Go with the coupe. I am not a fan of the FC vert.

 

OMG people, the vert is not ugly. Like TuboII said, whenever i drive with the targa off people look twice. It does not look 80's! I drive an S5 vert and when parked outside a resturant ,i always catch people staring at it looking thru the windows. like stated before the sub frame is built incredibly strong, Mazda Designed this car from the ground up. they didnt just chop off the roof and call it vert like others do.so the flex is not insane like some say. But a coupe is still cool aswell but parked next to a vert, the ladies always wanna ride in the drop top. ahhh screw it go buy an FD.

 

I love when people talk about things they dont understand.

Weight DOES have something to do with stopping distance.

Every extra hundred pounds IS NOT a 1/10th of a second.

I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone...I'm sure someone else has way more time to do it.

Moral of the Story: Don't believe what you hear from idiots. If you haven't tested and experimented with it yourself, don't repeat what others THINK works.

***FWIW***

My verts is fun to drive, but needs more power.
My TII has power, but not as fun as the vert.

Problem solved: Bought both.

 

***FWIW***

My verts is fun to drive, but needs more power.
My TII has power, but not as fun as the vert.

Problem solved: Bought both.[/QUOTE]
I agree and did the same!

**FWIW**

I took the 'vert to Deals Gap with the SE section in April. I didn't have any problem hanging with anyone through the twisties. More power could have been fun, but when you're running 5-6k in 2nd and 3rd all day who cares!

 

well, I think the FD is kinda ugly too.

 

hmm would it out handle my s4 gxl coupe!? from what i understand the gxl has upgraded sway bars,bigger brakes,and 5 lugs is that not what the vert has?

 

All I know is my vert has not "found" a corner yet. I have taken some that feel like the tires are rolling over but I am working on that issue. When you take a sweeping 90° and come out faster than the cars that were already on that road.......with the surrounds up high and the wind in your hair..........you know you've got a handler.

 

which is why a semi-truck stops shorter than a lotus elise, right??

anyway, a lot of you guys are arguing that the vert handles better, but im curious what in total has been done to the fc3c chassis (besides subjective opion) to somehow make it stiffer/ more responsive than the fc3s chasis which has the obvious structural advantage of a ridgid top.

 

To start with the whole front subframe is radically stronger on the vert (in fact there are tuners in Japan that build lower subframe supports for the coupes that try and duplicate the set up).

Add in the lighter stock wheels,

Radically stronger rear side to side strut tower supports (no rear strut tower bars needed here- its built into the body).

Thicker windsheild A pillars and frame.

The built in roll bar (built into the rear top assembly- so that again the side to side rear is re-enforced weither the top is down or not).

Entire underbody frame rails are beefed up.

Floor panel vert specific

Heavy duty vert specific firewall parts

Heavy duty engine mounts

Kick panels re-enforced

Behind seats re-enforced to further prevent the body flex.

Heavy duty front stabilizer bar from the Sport/ Turbo models

Heavy duty rear stabilizer bar and bushings (vert specific)

Vert specific springs

 

TY, Icemark.

The first thing you need for suspension is a stable plateform. You cannot tune a suspension if the variables are changing every corner.

 

Look I have a vert. And yes I agree that the vert is sluggish stock. But there is a reason for the suspension and body ridgity that was made for the vert. And that is to perform.. The vert was designed with performance and luxury in mind.. Even though it was brought here n/a , the verts anywhere else came with tII drivetrain( Im sure most of you knew this already). Therefore for you to experience the complete package, you need to add the powerplant that was originally designed for the car.. I still dont get why people who havent driven or been in a vert, much less a boosted one, comment on it... Ill be happy to show anyone the capabilities of a boosted vert......if youre interested pm me, im in MIAMI.....

MARTIN

 

TY again Icemark. I like the way you're just listing facts and staying out of the OP madness! we should all be so wise!

The vert is great, and yeah it's a bit sluggish off the line.
But It's not necessarily because it's a vert. It's more likely because it's a N/a Rotary. If you've really read up , you'd all know that ALL of our engines lack the low end grunt (torgue) that most piston engines give out. That's why we tend to get left at the line, but as soon as that baby catches 5,500 rpm, watch out. and we all know that 2nd and 3rd do nothing but say bye~bye! Our cars Love high revs and high speeds in low gears. (perfect for the track)

If you're driving in traffic, theres' really no reason to try to race. That's just dumb, and gives a bad image(not to mention dangerous).

If you're 1/4 Mi, then you'll want a TII, nothing else (well, FD)

If you're wanting to twist track it, then it's really 6 compared to one half dozen IMHO.
By the time(and $) you've set up the suspension on a coupe, you could have used that time (and $) to do a few drivetrain mods to the vert.

A buddy of mine just got 2 N/a coupes. He will set his car(s) up and I will set up mine. When he gets a few seconds faster in 1/4 Mi. he'll smile.
When I pass him on the highway, top down, speakers pumping, cute girl in passenger , I'll smile

As far as the looks go, it's all opinins and we're all right about our own OP.

locketine, You should go with what you think looks better IMO. You can mod any car to do whatever you want withit. Don't let these nay-sayers get you thinking otherwise!!!
But remember some classes(and some tracks) won't let you race the vert, unless you have a rollbar, at least 3-point(It's very hard to tell a track monkey that there is an integrated rollbar in your vert top, especially when they don't know anything about 7's).
Some specify EXACTLY what you need in order to race( i.e.: 10 sec 1/4 cars need many things, extended lugs, hood pins, rollbar/cage, helmet, 4 or 5 pt belts, etc) all tracks seem to have differnt rules, but NHRA, SCCA, etc have it all laid out plain and simple.
so, basically, it really all depends on what YOU want!

I think that about sums up my $.02

|M|

 

Its always fun to see the different opinions people will have. Some like the coupe and some like the vert. Big deal. This is why I hate jury trials. You never know which way people will go because everyone has an opinion and you never know they will come up with.

I have an N/A vert. I've had a 90 GXL and it does NOT handle as well as the vert. I'll even throw this out and say the vert might outhandle the TII (heresy) I know, but the vert center of gravity with all that steel under there is just phenomenal!

I have a friend in Germany who runs a stock vert on the Autobahn. That's a stock TII vert. He can't imagine that car running without the turbo. Over here, its the only N/A to convert where you'll get your money back. Otherwise leave it alone and enjoy the handling.

Whatever an individual buys should make that person happy. If someone likes the lines of the coupe, buy a coupe. If you like the lines of a convertible, buy that. This thread is all about people telling me why they like or don't like one or another product. Its a personal decision. If someone thinks the vert looks like a bathtub, hey, I appreciate the point of view. I don't share that opinion, but that's ok. There are people out there that buy the Studebaker bullet nose. Whatever floats your boat!

Ralf

88 vert
89 TII parts car