setting: urban townhouse in a flush neighborhood.

as im cruising around coming back from dropping my gf off, i slowely pull into my neighborhood..take a slight right turn into my driveway. Im surprised to see a rather large box, so i jump out of my car, run over to the box, dash into my garage and get a knife. I open it tearing furiously at the millions of newspapers stuffed in there (lol 1_doller_83_rx7). i get to the bottom...MY DIFFERENTIAL IS HERE, YES!

I drag that 112lb sucker out of the box and notice something is wrong..there is an extremely big tear at the base of the box thats big enough to sick a baby through . So im like 'alrite, no biggie' and i finish pulling the diff out and guess what...THE DRIVERS SIDE MOUNT IS COMPLETELY OFF!!#!$@#. Thats right...the whole entire mount was GONE, no bushing, no surrounding..nothing..gone!

This really pisses me off...how the hell does a company break off a whole side of the differential? that **** is durable as hell...god this pisses me off.

At least i got $300 insurance on it. They're pickin it up soon to take it back to have it checked to see if it 'passes insurance' any reccommendations that arent illegal (beating it up more) that would help me get my well deserved money?


Jeff

 

Yeah, UPS. They are not the best I have dealt with. I had a turbo shipped to me. I recieved it and some how it was dropped. They bent one of the exuast studs on it. They dropped it man.

I disliked that. It sucked because it set my project back even further. They may pay for the damage. But they don't and cannot compensate you for your time. And that is what sucks.

James

 

When I bought my 18"s on ebay, they were sent in perfect condition from the seller. Somewhere in the way one of them acquired a crack on the inner bead. The rims were aluminum and extremely lightweight and expensive.

I filed a claim for damaged property since it was insured for $400. One month passed, no word, then the seller receive a letter saying they will not honor the insurance on the rim.

I will NEVER EVER SHIP UPS AGAIN, I got the rim fixed at a local shop that specializes in welding aluminum, luckily the guy was good and he fixed my rim pretty nicely. Theres not that many shops that can fix these.

But yeah. never ups again.

they will not give a damn about anyones property. f*** them!

TRU

 

I have had SO many peoblems with UPS, mainly their insurance company. Sure, damage is going to happen if you use an automated belt/drop system like they do, but if you **** **** up, pay for it! This is where the problem has come in; they want to break my **** and NOT pay me for it. They want to make up excuses of how I packed it poorly or shouldnt have shipped 2 items in teh same box etc. etc.

I have the counter girl adn manager inspect my packing and they give it the green light. Then when it gets sent back for damage, and UPS insurance eventually denies it, nobody wants to hold the blame. They say it was the counter girl's fault for having accepted an insufficiently packaged item, and the counter girl, plus the terminal manager, say that it is the insurance company getting out of paying. IT is a never ending cycle.

I finally got them to pay half of my claim on a few expensive items recently, after being screwed out of 2 transmissions worth of insurance inthe past(at a customers expense). While they were investigating I called like every week, and told the head guy that his decision was the deciding factor in his company being my shipper of choise(and I ship 1-10 packages per day).

We also went 'round and 'round about the insufficient judgement. Aparently this judgement falls on whoever the first manager is to see the damaged package, it is dependent mainly on what mood they are in, and this determination is usually made before it ever gets back to you. Once this mystery person makes this judgement, it is entered into the database and upheld by others from then on. You do not get to know who made the decision, talk to them, or get their decision overturned.

So then I ask the guy, well why are the local people telling me the packaging is great, while youre people are saying it is not? HE then tried to say that the local people are not doing their job, and do not know what they are talking about. I offered to get teh terminal manager to sign off that my items are correct when shipped, to ensure future insurance coverage, and the big guy declined to accept that.

 

My uncle used to work for Fed Ex, he said most of the employees don't give a **** about the packages so ALOT of stuff gets mishandled and ALOT of stuff breaks. The fact is that probably most shipping companies are like this and anytime you ship something you are taking a risk with that item. That + some shady insurance company = customers getting fucked out of money and merchandise.

 

Yeah I know a whole bunch of guys that work for UPS and one time when the PS2 came out this one guy took a whole box full (10 ) and sold them at like 300 a piece. I don't trust them what so ever.

 

Ummm, let me interject something here.
I had a beef with UPS not delivering something on time as they promised. I paid extra for 2 day and they delivered in 7. I called their customer service, a contractor and was told in no uncertain terms that they couldn't/wouldn't do anything for me. Tough.
Well, I'm a government contracts lawyer and when someone enters into a contract to deliver goods, accept those goods and then ship them, there is a certain carrier liability they incurr, never mind the contract they entered into. I also go into my "trial lawyer mode" as my wife likes to call it.
I sent a letter to UPS HQ in Atlanta. Lo and behold, a month later I get a call from my local UPS office. They had been forwarded the letter and wanted to know how they could make good. They were aware of my dilemma from the letter I sent HQ, that I received the goods, just late and I needed them early, therefore paid for them to come SOONER than later.
Long story short, I received 3 vouchers for shipping with UPS anywhere they ship, whatever weight. Completely open vouchers. A little negotiating never hurts!
The key that works most of the time is to deal with HQ, not a contractor or the "insurance company". Also, putting your claim in writing, using the proper argument and refraining from using inappropriate invective and by all means, use spell check!
Kevin, you want me to look at some of your issues, be happy to off line!
Ralf

 

Guys, for heavy **** like transmissions SUCK IT UP and send it LTL Frieght. The rates are about the same as UPS, and it is palletized. It cost me 75 to ship a tranny from Or to SC. Another hint: Don't try to ship heavy cast stuff in a crdboard box. Make a crate! It's not that hard ans it protects your items soo much better. Another thing. Document your packing with a digital camera. OVERINSURE YOUR STUFF. DOCUMNET< DOCMENT DOCUMENT. If you receive a PACKAGE that looks like a gorilla sat on it. Don't open it! Take pictures of it, Take it unopened to the UPS terminal and open it with the center manager.

 

Kevin's damaged tranny WAS in a crate, that crate look like it feel off the damn airplane and then got ran over by their ups truck!

 

Like the one I shipped my last turbo tranny in? IT was sent from here to ID in a 5/8" plywood crate made specifically for the tranny. IT was shipped out like in feb. 12.

About april 10, I go to ship some other stuff and they tell me something came back for me. Lo and behond it is this same damn tranny. Apparently it got to ID, nearly to its destination, adn got damaged. IT sat there for 3.5 weeks NOT MOVING. Nobody could tell me why. Then, it made its way back to my terminal, instead of going on to the customer. By the time It got here the judgement had been made and entered to deny the claim, and there was nothing my local people could do but shake their heads adn say it was way wrong.

Not only did they bust the plywood crate, they BROKE the bellhousing in HALF. What kind of force do you have to apply to do so? Drop it from a 5 foot height? Drop something heavier than it form a 5 foot height on top of it?

John, what carrier do you use for truck freight? I have had the best rates from R&L carriers, but most everybody else wants closer to $125 to ship anything like that. I do a lot of shipping of engines you know, and its hard to get a good rate.

 

R&L did an engine for 67 from upstate NC to SC, rearend from SC to NJ for 82

Saia did my tranny or to sc 75
Engines 153 OR to SC, SC to OR.

Like Ralf said, document and contact the HMFIC! and be polite!

 

Damage in shipping is going to happen. But, just because some schmo makes a decision at a far off removed place doesn't mean you have to abide by it.

You'd make the same decision if you were in his/her shoes. Their job description probably says, deny all claims. Do I accept that??? Hell no! Make life miserable with calling and writing them. That's how I got the glass on my Leer cap fixed after 3 years. You have to dog it out.

AND, document, picture, document and please, this is a contract, so educate yourself on what that really is and your rights and duties in regard to that document.

BTW, great suggestion John!

Ralf

 

I worked for UPS for a year and USPS for about 4 years.
Most packages that are damaged are inproperly boxed.
112lbs in a cardboard box is crazy. That is improper packaging. Heavy packages do not travel along the suspended conveyors/slides/rollers. They usually run behind an electric "train" that constantly loops around the facility. Packages over 80lbs usually always require 2 people. And, a package must be able to support its own weight. There is no suck thing as "fragile" or "this side up". If you use a crate, slowly roll it around on all sides in your driveway and watch it fall apart. I have never seen anything secure in a crate or anything heavy secure in a box. And, the address(legible & correct) needs to be on all sides to prevent the sorter from having the roll the box in the first place. Shifting of the contents is what usually causes all of the damages.
There were numberous contract/union/weight issues and a pseudo strike about 10 years ago when management increased the package weights.
If the UPS employee didn't have an assistant for help during box movement, then it wouldn't surprise me if it was somehow damaged.
People who make $8 an hour busting their azz inside the facility DO NOT care for breaking their back to protect your poorly taped package. Its best not to ship freight with a package company. Use a freight company and give those 120lb college student UPS employees(bastards) a break.
If you know employees that steal or purposely destroy/loose packages, then it is up to you to call the police or UPS directly. If you don't, then you are no better than they are.
And, for those of you with insurance claims, if it is not in writing, it means nothing. Call all you want. As soon as you hang the phone up, they will forget that you even called.

 

HAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHHA HAHA HAH
ha ha ha ha h...

HAHAHAHAHAHA AHHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHH.

I could just picture taht happening.

 

Well then Ill ask you teh same question I posed to the head of the insurance company: what would you have us use, bank vaults? armored car?

Seriously; if youre going to sit there and tell me that you accept packages up to 150lb, but yet that any package over 100lb is going to be unstable and insecure (and thus uninsurable) isnt this just throwing money out the window? Why then, put yours and your company's name out there for something you know is not going to work out if this is really the case?

Because they can and should handle these things properly...its like I told the guy. IF the person at my local terminal, whether it be a pickup driver, or a counter clerk, inspects my package and accepts it under the condition that it arrives in teh same condition I sent it in, then it should be, *FROM THERE ON OUT UNTIL DELIVERY IS MADE* the shipping company, and only, their responsibility to handle it properly.

But you say that the shipping company has the right to deny such claims? I dont see this as any different than if you let a friend/aquaintance borrow your car. You expect it to be returned to you in the condition it left. In fact, I once saw on tv where one friend sued another because they wrecked a borrowed car; the one friend(who borrowed it and got in a wreck) said it was not his fault, he was hit by an uninsured driver. But, in the end, the judge told him he had a responsibility to convey the car back to its owner in the condition it was given, and was ordered to pay for the entire damage amount.

So if the legal system looks on private citizens matters this way, how can it turn its head to a coroprate shipper?

 

It can't but you never took it that far. You stopped, I presume, when you got the answer that you received from the insurance company who is in business to say NO! Or?

Based on your analysis, its still a contract if the carrier accepts the goods, with overtones of a bailment. The contract is very specific in this regard. There's a ton of stuff in the law on these carriages but you have to avail yourself of it.

The point is still being missed. You have to enforce your rights under the contract! Everyone talks about how its a cold cruel world and that they are being taken advantage of (sometimes in very colorful language, see above). Yet, no one seems to have grasped that instead of complaining, take action...in contract. Why is that so hard to understand???

It seems to be a common sentiment in other threads also. Everyone wants to bitch, but no one wants to do the research to avail themselves of the proper (legal) remedy! Plenty of college students on here, you'd think they'd know how to do research on the internet!

Kevin, I understand you were citing your experience and answering another poster.

RW

 

So then it is agreed that once one of my (or anybody's) packages is accepted by the company(or any representative of it) for shipment, that theyre obligated to deliver it to the destination in the proper condition or pay its declared value?

How does this relate to the insurance company's brochure(I picked it up at the UPS desk) which states in some way or another, that "anything shipped in what is deemed to be insufficient packaging can adn will have its claim denied" and states the only guidelines for "sufficient packaging" as UPS' packaging guidelines, which is basically outlined in my post above where my local manager pretty much told me that it depends on who looks at it and what mood theyre in as to whether or not "in their opinion" it is packaged properly and thus by the insurance company's contract insurable?

 

If the friend/acquaintance lets you borrow a car with bad brakes and bald tires, then who is at fault?
The borrower expects the loaner's car to be in fair driveable conditon.

The shipper expects that the shippee knows how to wrap something which won't fall apart in shipping.

Burden of proof is how the legal system works.
Read the previous replies posted. There is a way to approach insurance companies for claims. Usually its in writing and you need proof. The magic words said way up above is to document/pictures/don't accept or open damaged packages........

And a simple statistic, they deliver 14 million packages a day. If they were 99% perfect, that means 1% of their packages get lost or damaged. Thats 140,000 boxes every single day. I haven't met anyone 99% perfect.
Sorry if everyone here is perfect and gets that 1% treatment.

 

Now we are getting somewhere.
The key is to find out the guidelines of the UPS contract. For instance, it would seem reasonable to presume that if their counter agent looks at the package, weighs it, reviews it that UPS is accepting the package for shipment. No matter what another later person does to invalidate the contract, the contract was formed. Now I'm talking basic contract formation. In other words, you can't change the contractual obligation between two parties after the contract is formed unless the parties agree to the change. All of this is contingent on the original contractual document. It may say that someone can later invalidate the contractual agreement between the parties if UPS doesn't want to pay, but, it would be in writing. I don't know what the document states.

The point remains though that the insurance company is in business to say NO and protect UPS. If they can do that by telling you a mistruth, they will. They'll deny it, but their interest is to convince you not to follow up on the breakage. Therefore, you have to call them to task based on the contract.

To say that it is up to some arbitrary and capricious person to make a decision as to breakage and viability of packaging (after the contract formation) is plainly unreasonable and bears no semblance to common sense. Here is where I'd balk! That is so absurd it could only come from the mouth of an insurance agent!

The contract is the only document that counts here.
Any later changes to its terms have to be agreed upon by both parties to the transaction.

As to that statement of how many millions of packages shipped and the percentages (where are the figures for that?); that is why UPS has insurance in the first place. To take care of that percentage of packages that break in transit. To deny this concept is to view the world through rose colored glasses and the only one successful at that is Elton John!

 

HAHAHAHAHA I just pictured it too!! hahaha That's awesome!

Van

 

Ill pick up the insurance brochure again on my next trip in there...I dont know where I put the last one.

 

I have something to add here. I had an experience with a pair of very nice Sony tower speakers. I got them for a steal on an auction on eBay. They were shipped to me in the original packaging (they were only a few weeks old) OK, so they are marked overweight (78lbs) and they are sent ground. I figure, hell in the OEM wrapping, they an't hurt them right? They were even put inside another larger box after they were in the OEM box and then packed again! Those bastards were so rough with it that they ripped off the lid to the box and then had to nerve to just tape it back on like nothing happened???

Feast your eyes...














Needless to say, I do not deal with UPS anymore unless it is absolutely mandatory by the other party I am dealing with. I only use FedEx (who delivers my things like they were bought in a store and carried to the car) and USPS (slower than hell, but cheap and reliable)

 

Dave, I have the exact same identical speakers, had them for almost 2.5 years now. THey sound great, adn have good bass for only 6.5: woofers. I got mine for $169/pr at etronics.com, along with my sony 12" subwoofer, which used to freakin rock the house, but now has a power supply problem adn is dead.

 

Yeah they are sweet. When UPS screwed me, and said that I would only get the prie paid back, I just told them to F$&# off and I went to Home Depot and bought some 1/2" MDF and remade them to the OEM sizes, removed the speakers, terminals, and sound stuffing from the old ones and replaced those items in the new ones. They sound better than my buddies set

I got these to go along with the rest of my Klipsch system as they were way less than their towers.