cbrock

iTrader: (1)

HAHAHHAAHAH electric superchargers. Don't waste your money...I repeat, Don't waste your money. For all you non-enganerding type people, I'll help you through this. Ok, so say you have an electric supercharger (lets leave the boost part of it to the side for now) lets say they claim it can make 15hp. Mind you, this would vary car to car...but lets stick with it.

15HP=8250(ft-lbs)/sec=11.185 kilowatts
11.185 kilowatts=11,185watts
Ohms law. V=IR or in this case we're looking for power soooo...P(power)=V(voltage)*I(amps)
On a 12v system your car would have to generate 932.125 amps to supply this motor. At 14.5V it would take 771.37 amps

On the low end perhaps it'll only make 5hp, the least gains you'd want to see for your money.
With the same calculations from above:
5hp=3.73KW and would require 310amps @12V and 257.24 @14.5V

Mind you, I'm trying to relate HP to airflow and this might not be very accurate. Needless to say our alternators doesn't have enough power to supply this or anywhere near it. So when you start thinking about this air-pump mod or the electric supercharger just sit back and think about how much energy this really is. 11,185W is a lot of 100W light bulbs

tims

since we have finally gotten to formulas and math here is a formula for air flow.

Q=VA

Q=airflow(CFM, cubic liters per minute)
V= velocitly (feet/min, meter/minute)
A= area if using round tubing

A= pi/4X(D squared)
D=diameter of tubing

use this to see how large a diameter of tubing or opening to the smog pump and what the air velocity would need to be to achieve air flow greater than the rate of a NA 13b. this all should be verified on your flow bench after appropriate machining and massaging of the air pump is done. good luck and do the math on paper before you spend countless hours of fabrication and testing.

jarrod

IMHO

look around for a good used paxton,vortech
head unit,there out there
people upgrade to bigger and better blowers
you will have to fab up brackets,etc
but it can be done...

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Dear god, can we just drop it, delete this topic, and forget this ever happened?

Shounen

Wouldn't that be like trying to fill a tire up with a fish tank airrator?

peacekeeper

well they COULD delete the topic. They COULD do alot of things but are they going to? I doubt it it Aaron. You say its stupid. Well thats your porblem. Everyone saying its stupid and telling me not to do it isn't going to stop me from trying this out, so I would like you to get over yourself and apreciate that someone BESIDES you is getting attention because they are doing something different. Oh gosh, It might not work, Well hell it might. Who really knows for sure. Have you done it? I thought not now shut your mouth. I will try it. I will post my findings and I will be able to say if this will or will not work. It will happen no matter how much you B!TCH on my threads. Your B!TCHING just gives me the tenacity to want and do this even more. I appologies if you take this personally but that is something we all must face in our little world. I didn't say that you weren't going to get your turbo N/A to work, Hell if you look around I was one of the few and at the time proud that were supporting you and had your back when someone was criticizing you. I thought you were different then the rifraf that go around here shiting on everyone elses moods. I guess your just one of the comformists. Oh well, no big loss. I hope you have a good day.
Charles

NZConvertible

If you hold your arm out, palm down, and move it downwards quickly, air pressure will resist this motion and the opposite reaction will cause your body to rise. If you do this with both arms fast enough, you will generate lift. So go the top of a high building and step off the edge, flapping as fast and hard as you can, you might generate enough lift to fly. Worth a try?

Yeah I’m being a smart ***, but the point I’m making is the equipment you’re using is simply not physically able to do what you want. If you had bigger wings (e.g. a hang glider), you’d fly. If you had a bigger pump (they make these, they’re called superchargers), you’d make extra power.
The reason people are bitching is because you’re completely ignoring all the advice being given to you by people who know a lot more than you do. If there was even the slightest chance of this working, we wouldn’t be ragging on you, because we’d be interested in the results.

kristopher_d

As I'm sure all are aware, I whole-heartedly support Peacekeepers efforts. I understand the the limitations of the pump's physical dimentions. In fact, I do not expect to see direct positive gains from this project. I am interested in the likely side effects. Often times medical industry develops new drugs and procedures that are expected to cure, or at leaste aleviate the symptoms, of some condition. Sometimes these treatments result in positive side effects that were completely unexpected. I am going exagerate wildly now: Perhaps some change made in the airpump will result in a change of the value of pi (engineers and designers should readily recognize the significance of this very ver very ... unlikely scenario). I doubt it, but there is a lot we don't know yet. At the very least we will learn what flow rate we may achieve with this energy vampire. And on another note, isn't the airpump perfectly sized to supercharge a civic, without mod's. j/k

Protege Menace

look, I think you can tell why it wont work, even ina simple drawign you can see the air pump is jsut going to pump ari back OUT the intake.

only a real turbo/supercharger can pressurize incoming air because ALL the air goes through it.

the air pump idea only adds a small stream of air into the intake, doing nothing...



see it aint gunna work....


now THIS is going to work:

The Ace

Man this thread is seriously funny

...and everytime I see that explanation of the TwinZet, I always fall to the ground laughing my *** off....

And take it from an Electronic Engineer, 1000A is A LOT of juice to have on your engine bay...

"...10mm wires..."

peacekeeper

I am not ignoring ANY of the advice that people are giving me. I read EVERY post and take it into consideration. That is why I want to make it flow more. You also say that by disproving something I am going to try to see if it will actually work in aplication you are there fore smarter than me? You have no idea how much I know and how smart I am. Yes I could use a s-charger and be great with air flow blah blah blah. Some things that should work on paper don't, and some things that shouldn't work on paper do. I just want to see what this does. You getting me yet? I completely understand what you guys are saying by air flow and everything you do not have to draw it out for me. I am just posting what I'm doing to it what it does and that I want everyone to know how this affects everything in the car so get off my back.

rico05

Feel like a cruise to College Station? I would love to help ya out. Sure, I agree w/ everyone who says it won't work, but I'm no engineer, so I have no clue what kind of chance you got, but you're a good guy, and I must say, this does sound intriguiging!! Anyway, keep on goin, the only person you need to impress is yourself. Innovation all begins with goofy ideas. They told Einstein he was crazy, and look at what happened!

Protege Menace

dude loko at my drawing, your pushing air abck OUT the intake, thats GOT to screw up the intake system.

unless the ENTIRE system is pressurized, having a HOOD SCOOP would provide more intake pressure than an air pump.

i think you should work on making a ram air device

peacekeeper

I already have made a ram air device thank you very much. I know how my car is set up and do not need your drawings. You have it set in a T fashion. That is bound to make air go both ways. Now if you set an inlet that runs alittle parallel with the intake pipe, run it up the intake as far as posible close to the TB, and then splice it in at an agnle not much more than 15 degrees you should have enough air behind it to keep it going one direction. Now if this will or will not mess things up I don't know but I'm gonna try. If you want to see what kind of ram air type set up I have take a look at samps car. Just like it.

P.S. Thanks for the support rico.
Charles

guitarman68

Good call, man. I'm just going to stop reading all the crap that people are posting on here... Leave the guy alone. Lemme know what happens Peace Keeper. Wheter it works or not, doesn't really matter.

rico05

Anytime homie!! I can't wait till I get aother rex. I will head on over to Austin and we could chill!! Keep it real man!!

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

peacekeeper: Don't take things to personally. I was taking about the thread itself, not your efforts. Even though it WILL NOT WORK, I'm not going to make fun of you if you try. It's just a big waste of time, period. I posted earlier in this thread that an airpump becomes a restriction when used as a supercharger on a 5HP lawnmower engine. Doesn't that make you realise that the pump won't come close to providing any positive gains for your engines. Compare it to:

-blowing in a wind tunnel
-farting in a jet's exhaust
-using a hair dryer to inflate a tire
-trying to use the exhaust from a vacuum to power you on a skateboard

It WILL NOT WORK. Period. Nothing you say or do is going to make it work. I am not supporting you on this because I know it's not going to work. I am not jealous that you are getting attention because you are getting it for the wrong reason. It won't work. Do you know how I know this? Because I have an understanding of physics, and something you seem to lack: knowledge and experience. It won't work. It's a pointless effort. This is not a flame, and I am not insulting you. I'm just trying my best to explain something. If you want to take it the wrong way, then that's fine. I don't particularily care.

kristopher_d

I'm not sure why so many people seem to need to say it so many times. The GO AHEAD AND TRY IT camp has heard you. Obviously, a pump that flows to little air to to be of benefit, will not lean out the A/F mixture enough to cause permanent harm. So, what long term, irreversible damage, could be done. So he splices into the intake system and winds up replacing the duct to get back to previous performance levels. Perhaps the injection of a small amount of air at a slightly non-parellel course, will cause just enough instability to better atomize the fuel. Perhaps not. My point is, don't keep shouting that it shouldn't be done. He's going to do it any way. That being the case, let's just sit back and see what DOES happen. If his engine starts running backwards because of it, you'll have another example to throw at the next guy to try it.

Evil Aviator

OMG, you aren't going to use an enclosed system? Are you serious, or is this another Mr. Akimoto thread?

An ideal gas will maintain a constant pressure at all points along the area of its container. The only way to keep it from leaking out the front of the intake (as has already been explained to you) is to design an enclosed system in which the pump itself keeps the pressure from leaking out the front of the intake. Yes, when the vehicle is at speed the intake air will have momentum which will help stop the leakage, but it will not be enough. A 15deg feed like you are suggesting will only reduce drag versus a T-feed, and not much else. Think of a balloon, where the gas inside acts evenly on all sides of its walls making it a round shape. Note that ballons only have ONE hole in which to blow them up, and this hole must be closed if the balloon is expected to retain its pressure.

If you would care to explain how your intake will not act as I explained above, I would like to hear it.

Have you showed this to your science teacher to see what he/she thinks of it?

BTW, 15deg is actually considered the "rule of thumb" maximum angle for drag reduction, so at least you got something right.

Scott 89t2

no he got 2 things right. currently his airpump is off the car

kristopher_d

Hmmmmmmmm. When I hold the palm of my hand toward the exhaust side of funning fan, I detect higher pressure on the palm of my hand than on the back of it. While filling the balloon, the inlet experiences higher pressure than the rest of it. Use a relatively high pressure pump, and the side directly opposite the opening will also experience higher pressure than the other sides. Hold the sealed baloon next to a lamp and the heated side experiences greater pressure. Even peacekeeper has conceeded that he doesn't expect much if anything to happen, but some of us are just curious. What, if any, effect will this project result in.

Protege Menace

this is what i was trying to show with my drawings, that unless you have an ENCLOSED system (like a turbo/supercharger) it will jsut blow out the intake

PuppyDoc

Ok, here's an idea for you to try rather than the whole airpump thing. Guys, feel free to bash this...
Get yourself two turbos, a stock one, and some totally insane one that comes on a firetruck or something...
Bolt the stock turbo up just like, well, stock. THEN, bolt the inlet for the exhaust side of the big turbo to the outlet from the intake side of the stock turbo... Then attach the big turbo to your intake, etc, etc... The boost from the stock turbo will be able to spin up the big turbo much, much easier, allowing you to run a turbo that the exhaust pulses of a rotary alone would take forever to spool up. For you mechanical engineering guys, it would be almost like using a pulley system to multiply force. It's a good idea on paper, anyway.

amemiya

yeah I have heard of people doing that with supercharges. but the creater of the air pump charger was either pulling the **** out of your lag or should not be aloud to procreate.

NZConvertible

Great, someone else who knows absolutely nothing about fluid dynamics...