Update on the air-pump supercharger.
06-23-02 | 04:34 PM
#26
I'm a boost creep...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,608
Likes: 8
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally posted by Audiofight
Just because it doesn't kick up 8 or 10 psi like a true supercharger and it doesn't give a full 35% increase in power, what if it gives 4 psi and he gains say 10 hp.
Just because it doesn't kick up 8 or 10 psi like a true supercharger and it doesn't give a full 35% increase in power, what if it gives 4 psi and he gains say 10 hp.
And to those who say he can try if he wants, you’re right. But if you post on a public forum, you can’t complain about those who disagree with you. If you can’t handle the flak, don’t post.
06-23-02 | 10:38 PM
#28
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
Okay, we've heard the same voices screaming [bold]DON'T[/bold]. Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words. I'm not saying it'll have any positive effect. Nor am I saying that it wont. If you believe that this will not work, state the facts as you see them, and shove your opinion where it belongs. Opinions are worthless. Opinions are beliefs people hold as facts without sufficient empirical evidence to support them. The most immoral thing a person may do, is to prevent an individual from taking an action which does not harm an unwilling individual. So, to everyone who is attempting to do this (verbally) I say go to hell you unimaginative, authoritarian, selfless bastards. This planet belongs to those willing to innovate, even in the face of commonly accepted principles. The Wright brothers' father tried to tell them to give it up, they were just waisting time. There was no way that man would ever fly in a heavier than air craft. Uh, anyone see anything wrong with this mans logic. I do. We fly regularly. If you would like more examples of why you should take a flying leap, just post, I'll be happy to ablige. Of course, you could keep me from waisting my time by reading every page of every history book, and gleaning the 20-30 examples you will see on each page.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. I don't know what principles you are basing your experiment on, but keep at it. There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. I don't know what principles you are basing your experiment on, but keep at it. There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
06-23-02 | 11:11 PM
#31
Super Raterhater
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,630
Likes: 3
From: NY, MA, MI, OR, TX, and now LA or AZ!
Originally posted by kristopher_d
Okay, we've heard the same voices screaming [bold]DON'T[/bold]. Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words. I'm not saying it'll have any positive effect. Nor am I saying that it wont. If you believe that this will not work, state the facts as you see them, and shove your opinion where it belongs. Opinions are worthless. Opinions are beliefs people hold as facts without sufficient empirical evidence to support them. The most immoral thing a person may do, is to prevent an individual from taking an action which does not harm an unwilling individual. So, to everyone who is attempting to do this (verbally) I say go to hell you unimaginative, authoritarian, selfless bastards. This planet belongs to those willing to innovate, even in the face of commonly accepted principles. The Wright brothers' father tried to tell them to give it up, they were just waisting time. There was no way that man would ever fly in a heavier than air craft. Uh, anyone see anything wrong with this mans logic. I do. We fly regularly. If you would like more examples of why you should take a flying leap, just post, I'll be happy to ablige. Of course, you could keep me from waisting my time by reading every page of every history book, and gleaning the 20-30 examples you will see on each page.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. I don't know what principles you are basing your experiment on, but keep at it. There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
Okay, we've heard the same voices screaming [bold]DON'T[/bold]. Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words. I'm not saying it'll have any positive effect. Nor am I saying that it wont. If you believe that this will not work, state the facts as you see them, and shove your opinion where it belongs. Opinions are worthless. Opinions are beliefs people hold as facts without sufficient empirical evidence to support them. The most immoral thing a person may do, is to prevent an individual from taking an action which does not harm an unwilling individual. So, to everyone who is attempting to do this (verbally) I say go to hell you unimaginative, authoritarian, selfless bastards. This planet belongs to those willing to innovate, even in the face of commonly accepted principles. The Wright brothers' father tried to tell them to give it up, they were just waisting time. There was no way that man would ever fly in a heavier than air craft. Uh, anyone see anything wrong with this mans logic. I do. We fly regularly. If you would like more examples of why you should take a flying leap, just post, I'll be happy to ablige. Of course, you could keep me from waisting my time by reading every page of every history book, and gleaning the 20-30 examples you will see on each page.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. I don't know what principles you are basing your experiment on, but keep at it. There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
06-24-02 | 12:04 AM
#35
infini guru
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Originally posted by kristopher_d
...and that you'll have to eat your words.
...and that you'll have to eat your words.
Steve(Pass the catsup, bizzatch!)
06-24-02 | 12:05 AM
#36
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
If a high enough flow rate is achieved, he will have forced induction.
Achieving a sufficient flow rate is the purpose of modifying the pump. A higher rotational speed may be achieved by reducing the radius of the pump's input pulley, further adding to the likelyhood of achieving positive pressure change accross the pump.
Achieving a sufficient flow rate is the purpose of modifying the pump. A higher rotational speed may be achieved by reducing the radius of the pump's input pulley, further adding to the likelyhood of achieving positive pressure change accross the pump.
06-24-02 | 12:15 AM
#37
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
And I'll take the "opinions" of some of these guys who post in here over other people's "facts" any day.
Opinions are based on assumptions derived from specific experience. When a fact and opinion seem to be in disagreement, the basis for the opinion is flawed. Upon narrowing the scope of the opinion, it may become fact. Example: Opinion = Elephants can't fly. Fact = Elephants are incapable of flight without assistance.
I do not discount the knowledge, experience, and expertise of the nay sayers. However, opinion = the air pump will not produce boost; fact = the air pump as it exists in stock form will not produce boost. If the internals are completely re-built for extremely high RPM with much larger piping, the air pump in its modified state WILL produce boost. It is likely that such a rebuild would be cost prohibitive. However, an attempt is being made.
Not having access to the numbers, calculations, formulae, and plans of peacekeeper, I am not prepared to comment on the likely-hood of success. Minor modifications are unlikely to cause anyone to eat their words. The right modification, what ever they may be, will cause the nay sayers to eat their words.
06-24-02 | 12:23 AM
#38
I'm a boost creep...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,608
Likes: 8
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally posted by kristopher_d
Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words.
Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words.
If you believe that this will not work, state the facts as you see them, and shove your opinion where it belongs.
The most immoral thing a person may do, is to prevent an individual from taking an action which does not harm an unwilling individual. So, to everyone who is attempting to do this (verbally) I say go to hell you unimaginative, authoritarian, selfless bastards.
The Wright brothers' father tried to tell them to give it up, they were just waisting time. There was no way that man would ever fly in a heavier than air craft. Uh, anyone see anything wrong with this mans logic. I do. We fly regularly
There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
06-24-02 | 12:28 AM
#39
Thread Starter
QC Motorsports
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: Austin, tx
Thanks Kristopher_d,
I didn't feel like pointing that out. People don't give me enough credit. I did listen to the advice that a "STOCK" air pump wont work. Thats why I'm doing the mod to the air pump. It looks neat on the inside. I thought it would look more round. I'll post some pics as soon as I can. Then I'll post it when I'm done cutting and all that good stuff. And we have absolutely no reasons why this WILL work, It may not!!! But if we do not try we WILL NOT KNOW FOR SURE!!!!!! If it works then thats one damn good reason to show you why it will work. If it doesn't then we can help others with ideas like this to realize what we have been researching will not work. But until we know for sure that it will or will not work, I WILL KEEP YOU GUYS POSTED. Weather some of you want me to or not. We learn best when we do...don't succed...and then change strategy, make it work a dufferent way and then everyone can sit on it and think, "Damn Thats one good Frigging idea. I should have thought of it. What they didn't get it to work at first?? And they didn't give up? Isn't that called persistance?" " yeah it is, and without it we wouldn't be were we are today and we wouldn't be living this good." "Those dudes must have had it hard when they were in the procces of finding out if it worked or not." " yeah just like every other person who did something nobody thought was possible." " I hear that they didn't even think it would work when they were working on it but wouldn't give up because they wanted it to work so much." "Damn man, That rocks." Now lets all think hear, Do we really not want to see if it actually works or not? The thing is yes alot of people want to see if it works or not. Thats one reason Why I'm doing it. So EVERYONE can benifit from my acomplishments AND MY mistakes. So if you want to bash me for doing something that everyone will benifit from knowing if it works or not, thats your problem. alittle enthusiasum is needed here. We all love these cars, So we should all love to see what happens no matter which way it goes. Please read EVERYTHING on the thread to make sure you do not say something that has already been stated. ESPECIALY If you just know that it wont flow enough. Well so do I, thats why I'm doing this!!!!!!! Now lets all sleep this off and see how things come out.
Peace out,
Charles
I didn't feel like pointing that out. People don't give me enough credit. I did listen to the advice that a "STOCK" air pump wont work. Thats why I'm doing the mod to the air pump. It looks neat on the inside. I thought it would look more round. I'll post some pics as soon as I can. Then I'll post it when I'm done cutting and all that good stuff. And we have absolutely no reasons why this WILL work, It may not!!! But if we do not try we WILL NOT KNOW FOR SURE!!!!!! If it works then thats one damn good reason to show you why it will work. If it doesn't then we can help others with ideas like this to realize what we have been researching will not work. But until we know for sure that it will or will not work, I WILL KEEP YOU GUYS POSTED. Weather some of you want me to or not. We learn best when we do...don't succed...and then change strategy, make it work a dufferent way and then everyone can sit on it and think, "Damn Thats one good Frigging idea. I should have thought of it. What they didn't get it to work at first?? And they didn't give up? Isn't that called persistance?" " yeah it is, and without it we wouldn't be were we are today and we wouldn't be living this good." "Those dudes must have had it hard when they were in the procces of finding out if it worked or not." " yeah just like every other person who did something nobody thought was possible." " I hear that they didn't even think it would work when they were working on it but wouldn't give up because they wanted it to work so much." "Damn man, That rocks." Now lets all think hear, Do we really not want to see if it actually works or not? The thing is yes alot of people want to see if it works or not. Thats one reason Why I'm doing it. So EVERYONE can benifit from my acomplishments AND MY mistakes. So if you want to bash me for doing something that everyone will benifit from knowing if it works or not, thats your problem. alittle enthusiasum is needed here. We all love these cars, So we should all love to see what happens no matter which way it goes. Please read EVERYTHING on the thread to make sure you do not say something that has already been stated. ESPECIALY If you just know that it wont flow enough. Well so do I, thats why I'm doing this!!!!!!! Now lets all sleep this off and see how things come out.
Peace out,
Charles
06-24-02 | 12:43 AM
#40
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally posted by kristopher_d
If the internals are completely re-built for extremely high RPM with much larger piping, the air pump in its modified state WILL produce boost. It is likely that such a rebuild would be cost prohibitive. However, an attempt is being made.
If the internals are completely re-built for extremely high RPM with much larger piping, the air pump in its modified state WILL produce boost. It is likely that such a rebuild would be cost prohibitive. However, an attempt is being made.
Originally posted by kristopher_d
Not having access to the numbers, calculations, formulae, and plans of peacekeeper, I am not prepared to comment on the likely-hood of success. Minor modifications are unlikely to cause anyone to eat their words. The right modification, what ever they may be, will cause the nay sayers to eat their words.
Not having access to the numbers, calculations, formulae, and plans of peacekeeper, I am not prepared to comment on the likely-hood of success. Minor modifications are unlikely to cause anyone to eat their words. The right modification, what ever they may be, will cause the nay sayers to eat their words.
06-24-02 | 12:47 AM
#41
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
Hypocrite = person who's actions and statements do not match. I have not attempted to prevent you, physically nor verbally, from doing anything. I said to shove opinions where they belong. If you believe they belong here, I told you to shove them here. If you believe your opinion belongs elsewhere, I told you to shove it there.
In fact, I encouraged you to present empirical evidence.
Turbo-Zet. I had not seen this one 'til now. I was refering to a product marketed under the name e-charger. However, the information provided by Turbo-Zet fails to prove that it will not work. Centrifugal super-chargers begin making significant boos when their impellers reach 40k RPM. Turbo-Zet claims to spin at 80k RPM. Please provide empirical evidence stating that it wont. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
That which is deemed impossible merely requires further though and effort to be made possible. Though the resources neccessary for a trip to Mars are not available in a complete package, it is possible with great enough effort.
In fact, I encouraged you to present empirical evidence.
Turbo-Zet. I had not seen this one 'til now. I was refering to a product marketed under the name e-charger. However, the information provided by Turbo-Zet fails to prove that it will not work. Centrifugal super-chargers begin making significant boos when their impellers reach 40k RPM. Turbo-Zet claims to spin at 80k RPM. Please provide empirical evidence stating that it wont. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
That which is deemed impossible merely requires further though and effort to be made possible. Though the resources neccessary for a trip to Mars are not available in a complete package, it is possible with great enough effort.
06-24-02 | 12:53 AM
#42
Thread Starter
QC Motorsports
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: Austin, tx
I used to think like you and talk like you when I first got to this forum, Kistoper. Then I got dumbed up by the bad attutudes of some of the people here. I listen to them to much. I would get outa here before I lost some iq points if I were you.
Charles
Charles
06-24-02 | 12:56 AM
#43
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
I'm arrogant enough to trust myself. There is still a lot of good info here. Just weed the opinions out of the facts, or modify the opinion statements as neccessary to make them facts. If you need a word of encouragement, drop me a PM. There are too few of us as it is. I would hate to lose another individual to the masses.
06-24-02 | 01:07 AM
#44
I'm a boost creep...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,608
Likes: 8
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally posted by kristopher_d
...the information provided by Turbo-Zet fails to prove that it will not work. Centrifugal super-chargers begin making significant boos when their impellers reach 40k RPM. Turbo-Zet claims to spin at 80k RPM. Please provide empirical evidence stating that it wont.
...the information provided by Turbo-Zet fails to prove that it will not work. Centrifugal super-chargers begin making significant boos when their impellers reach 40k RPM. Turbo-Zet claims to spin at 80k RPM. Please provide empirical evidence stating that it wont.
Turbo Zet
06-24-02 | 01:34 AM
#46
SOLD THE RX-7!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I have seen one e-fan test that worked. it was designed to only make 1-2psi. and drew over 50 amps. so it was made to come on only at WOT to not drain the battery. it added a bit of power. but not much. I would think it would lose power when not WOT though if it wasn't on...
06-24-02 | 06:59 AM
#48
HAILERS
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 23
From: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Kristopher_d.....the Wright bro's LEARNED from a fellow in Germany named LILLENTHAL (sp), about airfoils and flying. They were capable of learning from others mistakes.
Take a scale and measure the diameter of the intake at the afm. Now measure the intake diameter of the airpump. Speaks for itself.
Take a scale and measure the diameter of the intake at the afm. Now measure the intake diameter of the airpump. Speaks for itself.
06-24-02 | 10:13 AM
#50
My cars louder than yours
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,969
Likes: 0
From: Augusta, GA
Ok, now instead of bashing this curious fella' and call him names which is ENTIRELY INAPROPRIATE!, why dont we try to help him out a lil bit? I, personally dont think it can flow enough, maybe if you did mod it to hell and back you could get it to throw a few PSI around. **** it is deffinatly worth a try, i mean, its god damn free for christ sake, hell, i have three in my garage. Try it, see whats up, if its just a waste of time, why not go to the J yard and try to pull a supercharger out of say a 3.8 Supercoupe, i know its the pain in the *** supercharger, but... still, im sure you could probably buy that for dirt cheap, make your own parts and play, for WAY cheaper than anything from the peoples market. Fun... that is what racing, working on your car, and TRYING NEW THINGS is all about right?. Good luck man