jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Before anyone bashes my questions here, I have been doing alot of reading on 6-port turbo conversions, straight turbo II swaps, and v8 swaps. This all includes here on rx7 forum, aaron cake's website, teamfc3s, ect....

Basically, I have a 91 vert that I want to make it a bit more fun to drive than what it is. It has a very clean chassis, strong running engine which I have maintainced well, headers, exhaust, PD, injectors, ect... mostly everything you would/can do to an n/a besides a stand-alone and a rebuild with port job.

I am now at the point where I want to go ahead and start the quest for more power. I have a few questions hopefully some of you guys with more experience in this field can help me answer and sort out so I can see what would work best for where I want to take this project to:

My goal: have a 300-350whp streetable vert

Observations:

1. Besides all the "labor" involved into making my current 6-port into a turbo, it seems like this would be the best way to go turbo at all in my situation. Reason being is that a TII swap would run around 1,500 for a engine/tranny combination (JDM).

For that amount of money, I can rebuild & port my current engine and buy the some of the supporting mods. On top of this I will have the the advantage of high compression rotors.

2. If I do buy a TII JDM Swap, I have to spend 1,500 for an unknown condition engine, but I get a tranny with it right away. I will end up rebulding and porting it, adding all the supporting mods for the power I want to make on top of this.

It seems to me this would cost more than a 6-port turbo to do in the long run.

3. swap everything out for an lt/ls engine. 4,000 for the engine/tranny, another 4,000 just to get the beast to fit in the FC, then spend some more to make the little things work. The result instant 300-350whp?

Seems like this would be the most expensive option of them all.

Now my questions:

1. If I do a 6-port turbo, with the high compression rotors, would this come back to bite me if I try to reach my goal of 300whp on boost? It just seems like it is the way to go, but at the same time I haven't seen what numbers people have been pulling on their 6-port turbo engines. What is reliability like compared to a TII running this power?

2. If I buy a JDM TII engine, would the initial highcost of buying and porting and rebulding the engine be offset in the future by any way?

3. What would you guys recommend in my situation? I just want some ideas and second opinions because I want to do this right the first time.

Looking forward to hearing your responses.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

You can run water/methanol injection on the 6PT setup if you are paranoid, a basic on/off kit costs $200 and you can run 100% water if you want. Slap on a hybrid turbo and standalone and you're good to go.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

1) If you do a V8 swap “everyone’s gonna laugh at you”…in my opinion that is out of the question and gay.

2) People that go 6 port turbo have way too much time and not enough money to see it to the end properly. You have to consider that you’re going to need/want the TII flywheel, plate, trans, driveshaft, LSD and axles anyway…that 50% of the TII swap, GET WHOLE PACKAGE AND SAVE!

3) I think 91 JDM Turbo swap is your ticket, if your gonna rebuild it...then just buy a cheap high milage or blown 91 TII FC (whole car) then you have all you need and more. Then part out everything you took out of your 6 port along with the rest of the TII car you bought to offset the cost.

4) Keep in mind (as a reminder) that you need to power your top independently from the dash harness unless by the grace of god your score a 92 FC3S JDM engine w/harness.

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

That would work, I will have to look into this type of setup in more detail. I am assuming the water/methanol injection would be controlled by a supporting stand alone correct? Thanks for the suggestion.

A jdm swap would run fairly high initially since I have to buy the engine and also rebuild it, while I can just work with what I have (6 port engine) and use the rest of the cash for the supporting mods. What is the advantage to doing it this way in the long run for the goal I have in mind besides ending up with a fresh TII engine? From what I have been reading, I would still have to add supporting mods to the TII engine in order to get to where I want safely, while I can add those same mods to my 6 port for a low initial cost for the project.

My s5 vert doesn't have a dash mounted top switch, it is mounted on the armrest area. Would having this set up still effect me if going a jdm swap route? I am assuming a usdm spec swap would have my top functional regardless correct? I wasn't aware of this.

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from. In order to make the 6-port turbo work:

s5 intake manifold, front conver, ect... almost running what $1,000 correct? not including the smaller items. almost cutting even with getting the tii swap, like you say "the whole thing". I wasn't thinking clearly.....

Keep the opinions coming, looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Im saying as your best option in my opinion is to get a WHOLE 91 TII car..that way you get the whole drive train with it, do your rebuild, then sell ALL the left over parts as you go to pay for your mods. As far as your top goes..the top switch is connect to your body harness, which connects to your dash harness, which connect to your ecu and your engine harness...so YES it will need an independent power source (no big deal..just easy to forget then have to rip into it again). Good Luck! I Love Turboverts!

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Maybe it wont..but dont hold your breath...you will have to look up the wiring diagram and see if the power source is "piggy backed" through the ECU or not. BTW you got it made in this swap, I started with an 88 S4 vert and went to a 91 S5 JSPEC...talk about a wiring nightmare...BUT no electical gremlins thus far ...Knock on wood!!!

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Swaps within the same series are much easier. All of the NA harnesses can be kept, which means no messing with things like top switch wiring.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

buy a running t2 of the same series...take the complete motor/tranny/drivetrain out. sell your running NA engine with tranny, drivetrain, ecu, afm, wire harness and all of the extra parts from the t2 you bought. it might be a little more work but you are getting a running engine, all the parts you need for the swap and it should cost you little or nothing depending on how much the car is and how much you sell the parts for.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

All 3 of us here that have posted own turboverts and I think we all agree so far!

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

haha, i tend to skip to the bottom of threads.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Seems to me that you underestimate the cost of the turbo swap and overestimate the cost of the V-8 conversion...but that's really neither here nor there.

Basically, I think you need to decide what kind of character you want the "new" car to have.
It's really an apples/oranges comparison and until you've driven both kinds of swaps, it's hard to know.

There are also after-swap costs to consider.
Is maintaining- and possibly, further upgrading- the rotary turbo (either configuration) cheaper/easier than the V-8?

I currently own a NA and have been thinking about what I'll be doing when it's aging engine (188k currently) decides to go.
I've driven a few turbos (admittedly not verts) and also a few V-8 conversions (one a 2nd gen convertible, the other a 3rd gen, currently under construction) and know which way I'll go.

You really should make an effort to personally check out some swaps before deciding .

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Im sure...and never EVER again im I doing that swap(us s4 to Jspec s5)..it took years off my life and a chunk of change...LOL..just extending the RHD engine harness to LHD was a killer. Not to mention ...you know what..im not going to mention it..im happy with my swap NOW!

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Thats undercover code for " he's going V8" lets GET HIM!!!! LOL

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I was trying to give advice to the OP rather than just stating my opinion.
But...damn straight, Skippy!

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

I would do a V8 swap too...but ONLY in a FD...

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Yeah I understand, I personally know two people with v8 FC's. I have riden in one too. I'll just say the car scared the crap out of me

I have never been in a turbo FC though.

I may have exagerated with the cost of a v8 swap. With the goal I have in mind, I know a TII build up will end up running close to the same as a v8 swap. The only thing I didn't like personally on the swap I rode on was that the spedometer gauges were "slow" to respond, the diff would chatter when coasting in gear. I mean it probably was due to the fact the way the owner did the swap, I hope not all v8 swaps end up like that one though.

An LS is something I have looked at ever since that, although I know an LT although is a bit heavier can do what i need it to. I guess I have to decide what I want to choose between a TII swap or v8 now since a six port turbo is out of the question now.

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Roughly how much did you guys end up paying in the end when you guys did your turbo verts? I'd be interested to see what were the small things that ended up slowing your project down.

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-rx-7-1986-1992-vehicles-108/fs-20b-powered-convertible-767071/

I can take your car as a trade-in.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The speedo problem is easily (if not cheaply) dealt with and neither of the cars I've driven had diff chatter, so I suspect that is an install problem.

To a certain extent, the "small things" are going to be constant regardless of what swap you take on and what level of detail you strive for.

One way to approach your estimate would be to figure the cost as if you weren't changing the engine at all but still performing all the same tasks...i.e., removing and replacing the entire engine/drivetrain assembly.
The gaskets, bushings, hoses, hardware, etc. that need replacing will be similar no matter what parts you decide to reinstall.
Obviously, some of this is dependent on the state of the chassis you begin with.

For example, the third gen I'm working on now has the crispiest electrical harness I've ever seen. Practically every connector we touch crumbles- even the interior pieces- and this has lead to time and money expenditures that were not expected.

Also unexpected (at least in the beginning) was the fact that a lot of the stock hardware/fasteners seem to be designed for "one-time" use.
This is particularly true of the myriad plastic parts that are everywhere on modern cars.
A lot of these were brittle and were destroyed upon removal but of those that survived that stage, many (most?) were no good later.
For instance, the special plastic fasteners used to retain the fender liners- which seemed fine before removal- were unable to to be retightened later...this meant nearly $40 in replacement cost. Not a big deal in and of itself, but constant $40 expenditures can add up quickly.

These sorts of expenses are hard to pre-plan for since many of them don't seem to be directly involved in the job you're considering.
I think it would be prudent to create the most detailed estimate you can and then add @$1000 to the budget for the little things that can crop up- not to mention add up- as you progress.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

I feel if you dont budget $10k for a fully rebuilt swap, with supporting mods and standalone then you should not start the project.

Yes I know alot of people are going to come in and say how they glued and zip tied 2 rubberbands inside thier motor and did the swap for less then $2000, but you wont have quality parts or a reliable set up.

When a motor is opened up people have different opinions on what is acceptable or not, overbuild your motor and it will handle whatever you throw at it. GO STANDALONE right away, you will not be happy with 300hp in a vert so at least you will leave yourself room for improvement. Mine dynoed a little over that and I can tell you its not fast, remember the car is heavy.

I also own a V8 coupe, its a original TII car and I have a LT1 in it, yeah I know a iron block motor, it is modifed has aluminum heads and dynoed to the wheels as much as or more then LS swaps, I can tell you that a V8 in a convertible would be AWESOME, the torque would make the extra weight of the vert a non-issue. NO matter how much HP you throw at the vert its still fighting its weight issue, you need torque for that seat in the pants speed feeling.

Finding a whole complete running TII car would be nice, but really how often do they come up? If they do and they are that cheap they are probably **** anyhow.

I budgeted a certain amount for my swap, and I went way over, and im STILL changing things, so whatever you think your budget is double it or triple it if you wnat a quality swap. I dont even want to repeat what I have in my swap but lets just say I went over that $10k.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

I agree with alot of what you said except this part...just the opposite..they are coming OUT OF THE WOODWORK DIRT CHEAP. I think I counted like 5 on ebay the other day all ending within 3 days ..running.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

I cant answer that question and give you the information your looking for because we have different goals, and different starting points as well. So many variables ...are you doing all the labor yourself? If so I can give you an idea.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

who is to say the reserve was met and the cars sold?

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Who, where , when, why, how, what if, shoulda, coulda, woulda. I dunno "WHO"?? Should we take a poll and find out "who is to "SAY"?? LMAO.... Just F'ing with ya!


The OP would both have to meet the reserve price of an eBay auction if there is one and pay for the car as well..that is if the OP was to use eBay to find his donor car. The OP plans to rebuild the engine if he does go this route..so running or not hes ahead of the game. I think the OP shoud research the "going rate" and expect to pay middle ground prices for a decent TII donor car.