turbo in a SE body?
11-12-05, 07:57 PM
#1
yeah its a rotary
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turbo in a SE body?
hi all
anyone know how to rewire coil packs? im not sure as to why my car isnt getting spark i have another post that shows what i hae done so far as to checking if anyone knows what i might have missed any info would help thanks in advanced here is the thread of the things i already tried its titled DOH!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...page=204&pp=15
anyone know how to rewire coil packs? im not sure as to why my car isnt getting spark i have another post that shows what i hae done so far as to checking if anyone knows what i might have missed any info would help thanks in advanced here is the thread of the things i already tried its titled DOH!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...page=204&pp=15
11-12-05, 09:47 PM
#2
HAILERS
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Since you said you were getting a digital meter:
Go to the Lead coil assy and pull the small two wire plug apart. See if you have 12vdc on the black/yellow wire. Key to ON.
If you do, then go to the boost/pressire sensor and pull it's plug off. See if you have approx 5vdc on the brown/white wire. Key to ON.
Pull the small plug off the ECU and see if you have 12vdc on the far left pins called 3I and 3J. Key to ON
Jumper the ffuel pump check connector and turn the key to ON. Listen at the fuel pump. Do you hear it running?
Try to answer ALL the questions above.
I understand you have the original non turbo harness. NO turboii harness at all, right??? That is GOOD.
Go to the Lead coil assy and pull the small two wire plug apart. See if you have 12vdc on the black/yellow wire. Key to ON.
If you do, then go to the boost/pressire sensor and pull it's plug off. See if you have approx 5vdc on the brown/white wire. Key to ON.
Pull the small plug off the ECU and see if you have 12vdc on the far left pins called 3I and 3J. Key to ON
Jumper the ffuel pump check connector and turn the key to ON. Listen at the fuel pump. Do you hear it running?
Try to answer ALL the questions above.
I understand you have the original non turbo harness. NO turboii harness at all, right??? That is GOOD.
Last edited by HAILERS; 11-12-05 at 09:53 PM.
11-12-05, 09:57 PM
#3
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And ........do you have your old motor??? The CAS for it??? Take that old CAS and put the connector off the installed one on the old CAS.
Do NOT loosen the installed CAS in the car. Just remove the CAS plug off it and put it on the old CAS.
Put the sparkplug wires on the fender near the strut tower. Turn the key to ON. Spin the gear on the bottom of the CAS and you SHOULD have spark at the sparkplug wires laying on the fender. If you do...........then you've had spark all along.
Do NOT loosen the installed CAS in the car. Just remove the CAS plug off it and put it on the old CAS.
Put the sparkplug wires on the fender near the strut tower. Turn the key to ON. Spin the gear on the bottom of the CAS and you SHOULD have spark at the sparkplug wires laying on the fender. If you do...........then you've had spark all along.
11-13-05, 01:49 PM
#4
yeah its a rotary
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update
the car started right up... lol um but this was the weird thing about it.i took the n333 ecu out and pluged in my stock non turbo ecu in n326 and the thing fired right up....however i think i have to do some fine tuning cause it will start then kick over, revs to 2,000 rpm then dies i know what it could be so im getting some where..im thinking why the turbo ecu doesnt work is cause the electrical harness also needs to be changed out to..... the the turbo one also not just the engine harness.
11-13-05, 01:51 PM
#5
yeah its a rotary
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Originally Posted by HAILERS
Since you said you were getting a digital meter:
Go to the Lead coil assy and pull the small two wire plug apart. See if you have 12vdc on the black/yellow wire. Key to ON.
If you do, then go to the boost/pressire sensor and pull it's plug off. See if you have approx 5vdc on the brown/white wire. Key to ON.
Pull the small plug off the ECU and see if you have 12vdc on the far left pins called 3I and 3J. Key to ON
Jumper the ffuel pump check connector and turn the key to ON. Listen at the fuel pump. Do you hear it running?
Try to answer ALL the questions above.
I understand you have the original non turbo harness. NO turboii harness at all, right??? That is GOOD.
Go to the Lead coil assy and pull the small two wire plug apart. See if you have 12vdc on the black/yellow wire. Key to ON.
If you do, then go to the boost/pressire sensor and pull it's plug off. See if you have approx 5vdc on the brown/white wire. Key to ON.
Pull the small plug off the ECU and see if you have 12vdc on the far left pins called 3I and 3J. Key to ON
Jumper the ffuel pump check connector and turn the key to ON. Listen at the fuel pump. Do you hear it running?
Try to answer ALL the questions above.
I understand you have the original non turbo harness. NO turboii harness at all, right??? That is GOOD.
11-13-05, 02:56 PM
#6
HAILERS
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I have a non turbo car with a turboII engine in it using a the original non turbo harness. I use a N332 turbo ECU and have used a N333 in its place in the past. I've had this configuration for I'd say close to two years now and have no problems and even pass emissions yearly with good figures and no cobbling of the ACv/split air pipe or any of that stuff.
Any normal series four should initially rev to approx 3000rpm upon start up IF the water temp isn't below 62 or so degrees. It should do that for approx 17 seconds then lower down to approx 1300 or so until the water thermowax extends and puts the throttle plates at full close.
A bad ECU will exibit less than 5vdc at the brown/white wire at the boost sensor. If bad it'll usually show approx 1-2vdc.
There are five wire differences b/t the turbo and the non turbo harness. IF I remember right three don't make a bit of difference. That' as far as the ECU pin out goes.
If you put a turbo harness in a non turbo harness you have to deal with the other two yellow plugs on the emissions harness that do not go to the ECU. They go to the FRONT harness. IF you leave them alone and don't make adjustments, then you'll put 12vdc on your boostsensor output wire (very much NOT desirable) and put a ground on a relay in the CPU that will keep your idiot lights on. I believe Rotary Resurection has a site that deals with a turbo emissions harness in a non turbo car. You have to deal with the two yellow plugs I just mentioned, either by cutting wires or repinning wires in those plugs.
The pins on the ECU plugs that are different b/t the turbo and non turbo are pins 3D, 1C, 1R, 2K and 1S.
1C is the Air bypass relay that does not exist in a turbo (key word, RELAY).
1R is pwr steering sw in non turbo but Knock sensor in a turbo.
2K is split air in non turbo and twin scroll in turbo
3D is inhibitor sw in non turbo and fuel pump resistor relay in turbo
NOT HAVING A PROPER TURBO BOOST SENSOR AND USING A NON TURBO ECU will give you fits and should not ever be done except at idle and the idle will suck because the outputs of the two are so different.
and that's what I think about that.
Any normal series four should initially rev to approx 3000rpm upon start up IF the water temp isn't below 62 or so degrees. It should do that for approx 17 seconds then lower down to approx 1300 or so until the water thermowax extends and puts the throttle plates at full close.
A bad ECU will exibit less than 5vdc at the brown/white wire at the boost sensor. If bad it'll usually show approx 1-2vdc.
There are five wire differences b/t the turbo and the non turbo harness. IF I remember right three don't make a bit of difference. That' as far as the ECU pin out goes.
If you put a turbo harness in a non turbo harness you have to deal with the other two yellow plugs on the emissions harness that do not go to the ECU. They go to the FRONT harness. IF you leave them alone and don't make adjustments, then you'll put 12vdc on your boostsensor output wire (very much NOT desirable) and put a ground on a relay in the CPU that will keep your idiot lights on. I believe Rotary Resurection has a site that deals with a turbo emissions harness in a non turbo car. You have to deal with the two yellow plugs I just mentioned, either by cutting wires or repinning wires in those plugs.
The pins on the ECU plugs that are different b/t the turbo and non turbo are pins 3D, 1C, 1R, 2K and 1S.
1C is the Air bypass relay that does not exist in a turbo (key word, RELAY).
1R is pwr steering sw in non turbo but Knock sensor in a turbo.
2K is split air in non turbo and twin scroll in turbo
3D is inhibitor sw in non turbo and fuel pump resistor relay in turbo
NOT HAVING A PROPER TURBO BOOST SENSOR AND USING A NON TURBO ECU will give you fits and should not ever be done except at idle and the idle will suck because the outputs of the two are so different.
and that's what I think about that.
11-13-05, 05:18 PM
#7
HAILERS
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.These are the other two yellow plugs on the emissions harness that do not go to the ECU.
See the pin locatons with the ( )around them? That means the turbo harness has those color wires in the plug and not the color wire indicated without the ( ) around them.
SO......half the plug is for the front harness {F}, and the other half is for the emissions harness {EM}.
Now look at the plug called X-15.
See where one wire has (LW) above the BW????? That half of the plug is for the Front harness.
It will mate with the other half of the plug which is the EM emissions harness. If you look, youll see that the (LW)/BW on the Front harness will be mating with the (BrR)BW of the Emissions harness.
So, if you had a turbo Emissions harness mating with a non turbo Front harness, you will have the BrR (output from the boost sensor) tying in with the BW wire on the Front harness (which goes to the METER fuse, a 12vdc source of pwr).
NOT good since the BrR wire in the Emissions harness splices to the wire going to the ECU pin 2B which is the pressue/boost sensor INPUT to the ECU. NOt desirable.
Then there are those other wires shown on the jpg with the ( ) around them. They are problems also.
So its plain to see, staying with the complete non turbo harness is the most rational way to go if installing a turbo engine.
The above makes sense to me. Maybe not those who havn't take the few minutes to look at the FSM. Free and online for a FREE download. Schematics can be had from MAZDATRIX for chump change.
Another fine example is the WB (BrB) on the emissions half of the plug. If you had a turbo emissions harness, you'd know that all the brown/black wires are GROUNDS for various sensors, and if you mate that plug to a non turbo Front harness (BrB would mate with WB), you'll put a ground on the relay in the CPU that would now pull in and put a ground on the IDIOT LIGHT panel and keep those lights on constantly if the key is to ON.
See the pin locatons with the ( )around them? That means the turbo harness has those color wires in the plug and not the color wire indicated without the ( ) around them.
SO......half the plug is for the front harness {F}, and the other half is for the emissions harness {EM}.
Now look at the plug called X-15.
See where one wire has (LW) above the BW????? That half of the plug is for the Front harness.
It will mate with the other half of the plug which is the EM emissions harness. If you look, youll see that the (LW)/BW on the Front harness will be mating with the (BrR)BW of the Emissions harness.
So, if you had a turbo Emissions harness mating with a non turbo Front harness, you will have the BrR (output from the boost sensor) tying in with the BW wire on the Front harness (which goes to the METER fuse, a 12vdc source of pwr).
NOT good since the BrR wire in the Emissions harness splices to the wire going to the ECU pin 2B which is the pressue/boost sensor INPUT to the ECU. NOt desirable.
Then there are those other wires shown on the jpg with the ( ) around them. They are problems also.
So its plain to see, staying with the complete non turbo harness is the most rational way to go if installing a turbo engine.
The above makes sense to me. Maybe not those who havn't take the few minutes to look at the FSM. Free and online for a FREE download. Schematics can be had from MAZDATRIX for chump change.
Another fine example is the WB (BrB) on the emissions half of the plug. If you had a turbo emissions harness, you'd know that all the brown/black wires are GROUNDS for various sensors, and if you mate that plug to a non turbo Front harness (BrB would mate with WB), you'll put a ground on the relay in the CPU that would now pull in and put a ground on the IDIOT LIGHT panel and keep those lights on constantly if the key is to ON.
Last edited by HAILERS; 11-13-05 at 05:37 PM.
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11-13-05, 05:42 PM
#8
yeah its a rotary
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question:
look on example x-15 see LW with the [F] pic i noticed LW where the BW is located at and wondering if the BW removed where would it go to now since the LW takes its place or is it not used at all??
i really would like to use my non turbo electrial harness if i can ....since i have it in and im not really planning on chaning back to non turbo any time soon... do you have a write up /step by step picture directions to make the nessary corrections to make the turbo ecu with the non turbo harness?
look on example x-15 see LW with the [F] pic i noticed LW where the BW is located at and wondering if the BW removed where would it go to now since the LW takes its place or is it not used at all??
i really would like to use my non turbo electrial harness if i can ....since i have it in and im not really planning on chaning back to non turbo any time soon... do you have a write up /step by step picture directions to make the nessary corrections to make the turbo ecu with the non turbo harness?
Last edited by turbo2SE; 11-13-05 at 06:09 PM.
11-14-05, 12:08 AM
#9
yeah its a rotary
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from what i can see is the car is getting fuel with the turbo harness and the electrical harness is controling the coils so im getting spark from that side and both are to the non turbo harness .as far as emitions go the car doesnt need them cause of the area that i live in and they dont check emitions so i really think my conections are fine .i seriously think my ecu has gone bad which is strange im ordering a n332 with a aftermarket fuel cut off built in off from a friend and hopefully that ecu isnt bad also.....
11-14-05, 01:13 AM
#10
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(LW) on a turbo car FRONT harness goes to the boost gauge.
See how it mates with the Emissions plugs (BrR) wire?? That's on a turbo car.
If you put a turbo emissions harness and mate it with a non turbo Front harness, you'd have the output of the boost sensor going NOT to the boost gauge, but to the BW wire which goes directly to the 15a METER fuse (see the Charging System for a non turbo series four car).
The ENGINE harness is the harness that feeds the coils.
The EMISSIONS harness feeds the fuel injectors and all the sensors like the boost sensor/afm/tps etc.
If you keep on using the stock non turbo harness you just have to is deal with pin 2K which now goes to the Split Air Solenoid and make it go the Twin Scroll Solenoid valve so you can control the Twin Scroll on the turbo. You'd just extend the already existing Split Air Solenoid wires to the Twin Scroll Solenoid. If you disabled the twin scroll, then leave it alone and forget it (the wire to pin 2K)
Pin 1C.... the turbo engine has a Air Bypass Solenoid valve above and aft of the BAC. So you can just extend the wires from your present air bypass solenoid over to the one on the other side of the engine. Don't want the accerated warm up? Then forget about pin 1C all together.
Pin 1S......if I mentioned it I shouldn't have. Forget about it alltogether.
So you should be able to see that on the whole, you don't have to do much of anything.
If you put the turbo emissions harness in, I guarantee you NEED to adjust connectors X-15 and X-16. The alternator wires on your present non turbo harness go thru those plugs. The alternator won't work unless you cut/make adjustments to those plugs.
Pin 1R....is for pwr steering. I have no pwr steering so it mattered not. I installed the factory KNock Box and ran a wire to pin 1R. That's the way it is in a turbo car. If running without a Knock Box and have no pwr steering, then totally forget about pin 1R.
Pin 3D....leave it alone or depin it one. On a turbo it outputs a ground signal to the fuel pump resistor relay. I later installed that relay in the back of the car near the fuel pump. If not using a fuel pump resistor relay (and it is not required at all) then I'd just depin it and tie it back.
People need to understand the Emissions harness supplies the fuel injectors, afm, boost sensor, tps etc and GODDAMN IT, STOP CALLING IT THE ENGINE HARNESS (not directed at you).
The Engine harness runs on the left side of the engine and goes to the cas, battery, alternator (turbo harness only), starter motor, sub zero sensor, over the top switch, oil pressure gauge, and junk like that.
Everyone NEEDS to get a fsm WITH the wiring diagrams and glance at it once and a while.
Oh, and the coils are on the FRONT harness.
See how it mates with the Emissions plugs (BrR) wire?? That's on a turbo car.
If you put a turbo emissions harness and mate it with a non turbo Front harness, you'd have the output of the boost sensor going NOT to the boost gauge, but to the BW wire which goes directly to the 15a METER fuse (see the Charging System for a non turbo series four car).
The ENGINE harness is the harness that feeds the coils.
The EMISSIONS harness feeds the fuel injectors and all the sensors like the boost sensor/afm/tps etc.
If you keep on using the stock non turbo harness you just have to is deal with pin 2K which now goes to the Split Air Solenoid and make it go the Twin Scroll Solenoid valve so you can control the Twin Scroll on the turbo. You'd just extend the already existing Split Air Solenoid wires to the Twin Scroll Solenoid. If you disabled the twin scroll, then leave it alone and forget it (the wire to pin 2K)
Pin 1C.... the turbo engine has a Air Bypass Solenoid valve above and aft of the BAC. So you can just extend the wires from your present air bypass solenoid over to the one on the other side of the engine. Don't want the accerated warm up? Then forget about pin 1C all together.
Pin 1S......if I mentioned it I shouldn't have. Forget about it alltogether.
So you should be able to see that on the whole, you don't have to do much of anything.
If you put the turbo emissions harness in, I guarantee you NEED to adjust connectors X-15 and X-16. The alternator wires on your present non turbo harness go thru those plugs. The alternator won't work unless you cut/make adjustments to those plugs.
Pin 1R....is for pwr steering. I have no pwr steering so it mattered not. I installed the factory KNock Box and ran a wire to pin 1R. That's the way it is in a turbo car. If running without a Knock Box and have no pwr steering, then totally forget about pin 1R.
Pin 3D....leave it alone or depin it one. On a turbo it outputs a ground signal to the fuel pump resistor relay. I later installed that relay in the back of the car near the fuel pump. If not using a fuel pump resistor relay (and it is not required at all) then I'd just depin it and tie it back.
People need to understand the Emissions harness supplies the fuel injectors, afm, boost sensor, tps etc and GODDAMN IT, STOP CALLING IT THE ENGINE HARNESS (not directed at you).
The Engine harness runs on the left side of the engine and goes to the cas, battery, alternator (turbo harness only), starter motor, sub zero sensor, over the top switch, oil pressure gauge, and junk like that.
Everyone NEEDS to get a fsm WITH the wiring diagrams and glance at it once and a while.
Oh, and the coils are on the FRONT harness.
11-14-05, 07:54 PM
#11
yeah its a rotary
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im trying my hardest to understand where to cut and correct this harness i took a look at my non turbo harness the one thats on the passenger side was trying to see the way they both go into the connector .sorry to sound stupid but i only have a haynes manual i picked up at from advanced auto parts to go by.......where can i get this FSM?you speak of? im not good with the wiring diagrams in my manual and there not in detail as far as how the connectors looks .
like i said hailers im really greatfull for your knowledge and sharing it with me..but i cant comprehend it..
i was just thinking ..should i just take back out the turbo emitions harness and put in the non turbo emitions and use the turbo ecu with that setup?? can it be done and save me some headache? the car is the BASE SE lol so i have power nothing...i even took out the AC...this car is going to be for street, strip and show .anyone know how to post thumbnails? i cant seem to get them on here??
like i said hailers im really greatfull for your knowledge and sharing it with me..but i cant comprehend it..
i was just thinking ..should i just take back out the turbo emitions harness and put in the non turbo emitions and use the turbo ecu with that setup?? can it be done and save me some headache? the car is the BASE SE lol so i have power nothing...i even took out the AC...this car is going to be for street, strip and show .anyone know how to post thumbnails? i cant seem to get them on here??
Last edited by turbo2SE; 11-14-05 at 07:57 PM.
11-15-05, 08:23 AM
#12
yeah its a rotary
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I have a non turbo car with a turboII engine in it using a the original non turbo harness. I use a N332 turbo ECU and have used a N333 in its place in the past. I've had this configuration for I'd say close to two years now and have no problems and even pass emissions yearly with good figures and no cobbling of the ACv/split air pipe or any of that stuff.
if that is possable to do that i still have my non turbo emitions harness i think ill change them out back to a non turbo wiring setup if i do that with the turbo motor do i have anychanges in the wiring ??when i was doing the swap someone told me i needed the turbo emitions to make the motor run...thats why i bought one in the first place. but if you say i can use a non turbo emitions then great ! ill use that instead and im thinking i will have to make some exstentions?
if that is possable to do that i still have my non turbo emitions harness i think ill change them out back to a non turbo wiring setup if i do that with the turbo motor do i have anychanges in the wiring ??when i was doing the swap someone told me i needed the turbo emitions to make the motor run...thats why i bought one in the first place. but if you say i can use a non turbo emitions then great ! ill use that instead and im thinking i will have to make some exstentions?
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