Turbo on N/A engine
03-01-09, 09:02 PM
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Turbo on N/A engine
I keep hearing it's better to just get a TII and swap...
What problems would I encounter if did everything necessary on the NA engine
Aluminum flywheel, upgrade clutch and pressure plate, new manifolds, Rear end, wastegate, ECU, Apex Seals, FMI, Turbo Timer, Boost Controller, Axles and so on?
From what i've been told by a friend the 6port engine if boosted gets better high end torque
What problems would I encounter if did everything necessary on the NA engine
Aluminum flywheel, upgrade clutch and pressure plate, new manifolds, Rear end, wastegate, ECU, Apex Seals, FMI, Turbo Timer, Boost Controller, Axles and so on?
From what i've been told by a friend the 6port engine if boosted gets better high end torque
03-01-09, 10:20 PM
#2
A stock 6 port has higher compression rotors so you can't run as much boost and need a more accurate tune.
One of the biggest reasons for most people running a turbo motor is cost. Everything has to be custom on a n/a motor, but you can use a stock TII motor. If you are willing to go all out on you n/a and spend the money its not a problem. Just be sure you know how much its going to be before we see another project partout thread.
One of the biggest reasons for most people running a turbo motor is cost. Everything has to be custom on a n/a motor, but you can use a stock TII motor. If you are willing to go all out on you n/a and spend the money its not a problem. Just be sure you know how much its going to be before we see another project partout thread.
03-01-09, 10:37 PM
#3
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There is a user on here, Aaron Cake, who had a website documenting the work he put into installing a Turbo on a N/A engine. Look up his user name and their should be a link to his website in his profile.
03-02-09, 02:29 AM
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That is absolutely brutal. Tina would've put me in an early grave.
03-02-09, 09:43 AM
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For most people, a TII swap is the best idea.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
03-02-09, 10:58 AM
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For most people, a TII swap is the best idea.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
Not denying it would be enjoyable once finished, i don't possess the skill set that you do is the problem.
03-02-09, 11:13 AM
#7
Smoke moar
For most people, a TII swap is the best idea.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
Turbo NA projects done to be cheap are often disasters.
Turbo NA projects done for reasons like enjoying fabrication, the challenge, to be different (note that "being different" is one thing, but the knowledge has to be there to pull it off), etc. will usually turn out well because the builder has put the time, thought and skill into the project.
Cant you use the s5 turboII rotors (lower comp) with the 6port so you can run higher boost levels safer
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03-02-09, 01:08 PM
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Of course, the benefits are higher compression and more port area. Higher compression gives better off-boost performance and mileage, as well as making more power per PSI then the lower compression rotors. More port area is like a built in massive street port. However if the aux ports are disabled, there is a significant low end loss.
03-02-09, 01:28 PM
#10
Smoke moar
If/when I had the time I'd personally go Aaron Cakes route, made me smile seeing how he did it all instead of simply swapping it over. Not saying I'm a pro no I'd have to learn but yeah I'd keep the 6p working n such
03-05-09, 12:18 AM
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What fabrication?
I actually might do this, because i got someone who will make the manifolds and piping,
Would someone please be so kind as to tell me whats missing from this list.
New Clutch, New Tranny, Rear end, Downpipe, Turbo manifold, wastegate,BOV,ECU,Boost controller,Turbo timer,Intercooler,Flywheel, Axles and time
Is anything missing?
03-05-09, 07:09 AM
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Matching the Turbo intake manifold to match the non turbo front and rear side housings.
The Turbo intake maifold has one opening for Each housing mentioned above......and the housings themselves on the non turbo engine, have two intake openings per housing.
There's lots of threads with jpgs on this subject.
The Turbo intake maifold has one opening for Each housing mentioned above......and the housings themselves on the non turbo engine, have two intake openings per housing.
There's lots of threads with jpgs on this subject.
03-05-09, 09:20 AM
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It sounds like you want to go the route of using the NA manifolds then? Make sure to allow enough room when making the turbo manifold to keep the aux port actuators functional.
New Clutch, New Tranny, Rear end, Downpipe, Turbo manifold, wastegate,BOV,ECU,Boost controller,Turbo timer,Intercooler,Flywheel, Axles and time
Is anything missing?
Is anything missing?
For a generic list of parts, it looks fine. Obviously you will need things like a fuel pump, upgraded injectors, a million little fittings, lines for the turbo, all kinds of gaskets, etc. etc.
Skip the turbo timer.
You've simplified this down far too much for use to answer. For example, when you say "ECU", what you really mean is a full standalone with necessitates completely rewiring the engine bay, then hours of tuning and dyno time to make it work.
You have not even mentioned what turbo you are thinking of running.
It's also unclear what direction you have decided to take. TII swap or turbo-NA?
03-05-09, 02:16 PM
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Well, that would be the fabrication.
It sounds like you want to go the route of using the NA manifolds then? Make sure to allow enough room when making the turbo manifold to keep the aux port actuators functional.
You want use to list every bolt?
For a generic list of parts, it looks fine. Obviously you will need things like a fuel pump, upgraded injectors, a million little fittings, lines for the turbo, all kinds of gaskets, etc. etc.
Skip the turbo timer.
You've simplified this down far too much for use to answer. For example, when you say "ECU", what you really mean is a full standalone with necessitates completely rewiring the engine bay, then hours of tuning and dyno time to make it work.
You have not even mentioned what turbo you are thinking of running.
It's also unclear what direction you have decided to take. TII swap or turbo-NA?
It sounds like you want to go the route of using the NA manifolds then? Make sure to allow enough room when making the turbo manifold to keep the aux port actuators functional.
You want use to list every bolt?
For a generic list of parts, it looks fine. Obviously you will need things like a fuel pump, upgraded injectors, a million little fittings, lines for the turbo, all kinds of gaskets, etc. etc.
Skip the turbo timer.
You've simplified this down far too much for use to answer. For example, when you say "ECU", what you really mean is a full standalone with necessitates completely rewiring the engine bay, then hours of tuning and dyno time to make it work.
You have not even mentioned what turbo you are thinking of running.
It's also unclear what direction you have decided to take. TII swap or turbo-NA?
Yes i meant full stand alone. Got a full set of engine gaskets, I have the injectors, and pump.
03-05-09, 07:47 PM
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you will also have to tap into your oilcooler lines to feed your turbo oil, or your front iron. Get a tII front cover (for your oil return) or weld in a bung on the oil pan. Also tap into your coolant lines if your turbo isn't an oil only type. Your need to get a adjustible fuel pressure regulater also.
03-05-09, 11:03 PM
#16
If its an S5 then steal the coolant lines from the BAC. Use a tee fitting from the oil pressure sender/buy the $25 oil filter pedestal thats tapped or tap yours yourself if you're confident enough. For drain either remove and tap your front cover or go the oil pan route. Just remember the oil pan setup really sucks because you won't be able to weld the bung above the oil level and may cause backpressure on the drain and blow the turbo, although Aaron Cake doesn't seem to have a problem with his.
Most important part: DON'T USE THE POS STOCK TURBO. The wastegate sucks and you will probably boost creep and the seals or bearings will probably be shot soon. Not to mention it sucks for response and power. I've had two stock turbos, S4 and S5 and both are blown. The whole wastegate/blown turbo thing has been a NIGHTMARE for me, don't make the same mistake.
Most important part: DON'T USE THE POS STOCK TURBO. The wastegate sucks and you will probably boost creep and the seals or bearings will probably be shot soon. Not to mention it sucks for response and power. I've had two stock turbos, S4 and S5 and both are blown. The whole wastegate/blown turbo thing has been a NIGHTMARE for me, don't make the same mistake.
03-06-09, 02:11 PM
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I'm not trying to build a monster so probably a GT20 or maybe a GT25 series, i just want a boosted DD that will be fun to drive up in the mountains in north GA, i'm not out to run 10 second 1/4's or to road race, just want more than the 146hp I'm getting with the N/A, and i don't want to buy a turbo II because there is no learning involved in a swap, this is going to be a learning experience, this is the first project car i've bought and will be doing the whole engine upgrade thing for the first time. to this point the most i have done to my cars is oil changes, bleeding brakes and clutch, coolant flush, and the rest of the basic ****.
Also I don't like hearing I cant do something (turbo N/A) so i want to do it more.
I'm open to suggestions, criticism, and advice.
I'm an audio guy... so you gearheads be easy on me
Also I don't like hearing I cant do something (turbo N/A) so i want to do it more.
I'm open to suggestions, criticism, and advice.
I'm an audio guy... so you gearheads be easy on me
Last edited by ROTOdethMACHINE; 03-06-09 at 02:25 PM.
03-06-09, 03:46 PM
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Both those turbos are way too small.
A GT30R with the T3 1.06 housing will spool off of idle, make power to about 6K, and should put down 300 wheel HP. If you are going with the GT series and don't want much power, that is the way to go.
A GT30R with the T3 1.06 housing will spool off of idle, make power to about 6K, and should put down 300 wheel HP. If you are going with the GT series and don't want much power, that is the way to go.
03-06-09, 11:29 PM
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03-07-09, 12:53 AM
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Also.
Do i buy an upgraded "NA" clutch or buy a "turbo" clutch for the fC?
same question for Driveshaft,differential,axles and everything.
What size injectors do i need, what stand alone would you guys reccomend, is the haltech plug'n'play decent?
Do i buy an upgraded "NA" clutch or buy a "turbo" clutch for the fC?
same question for Driveshaft,differential,axles and everything.
What size injectors do i need, what stand alone would you guys reccomend, is the haltech plug'n'play decent?
03-08-09, 12:06 AM
#22
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I have a 6 port turbo.
The clutch you use will depend on which tranny you are going to use. If you use your NA tranny then go with a na clutch set up which doesn't require a counter weight. If you go t2 tranny then you get a t2 clutch and will need a counter weight. I think if you go t2 tranny and get stock clucth the counter weight is built in but with after market the counter weight isn't so you will need to buy the counter weight... Guys am I learning? Am I right??
If you are interested in going 6 port turbo Jap2LA can make you a custom 6port turbo LIM... I picked up mine from him. It is professionally done where you will use the stock na gasket from the LIM to block still using all 6 ports! Then use the t2 upper manifold and t2 upper manifold gasket. Pics at the end of post...
I am running a s5 6 port, s5 t2 front cap which has oil return line from turbo, Jap2LA custom 6 port turbo manifold, s5 t2 upper manifold, N370 TPS, s5 t2 exhaust manifold with s5 t2 turbo, n370 ecu, n370 pressure sensor, n370 afm, s5 na red top round injectors, walbro fuel pump, n370 alternator, FMIC. My oil feed line for my turbo is a split coming off the original oil line at the base driver front corner of the Engine. I am currently running a NA drive train and NA tranny..
I too am a audio-video-lighting-tinter so I am a newb to my 6 port turbo set up. If my engine ends up going it will not be due to me but due to past owners not setting it up properly. I will also still go 6 port turbo if my engine does go just do it right from day one.... Then not have to worry...
I had a problem starting my car for over a week due to the cold weather and dead battery and then flooding my car. But I got it started again tonight and my car runs fine with the current set up. That is the way I bought it. I just bought it about 3 weeks ago.
Now I plan on upgrading my current set up because I feel my set up is not proper for a 6 port turbo set up.
I plan on going stand alone, upgrading my injectors, upgrading my turbo, and getting a T2 Tranny and drive shaft but use my na rear. I already have a FMIC, Boost controller, BOV, Upgraded fuel pump.
Oh yeah my oil pan I am not 100% sure how they rigged it.. But it does have some tube sticking down from it... =)
Like I said before I am a newb to my set up and I can't really give advice about how to set up your car but I just figured maybe this info might help. I too am still learning a lot about my 6 port turbo set up.
The clutch you use will depend on which tranny you are going to use. If you use your NA tranny then go with a na clutch set up which doesn't require a counter weight. If you go t2 tranny then you get a t2 clutch and will need a counter weight. I think if you go t2 tranny and get stock clucth the counter weight is built in but with after market the counter weight isn't so you will need to buy the counter weight... Guys am I learning? Am I right??
If you are interested in going 6 port turbo Jap2LA can make you a custom 6port turbo LIM... I picked up mine from him. It is professionally done where you will use the stock na gasket from the LIM to block still using all 6 ports! Then use the t2 upper manifold and t2 upper manifold gasket. Pics at the end of post...
I am running a s5 6 port, s5 t2 front cap which has oil return line from turbo, Jap2LA custom 6 port turbo manifold, s5 t2 upper manifold, N370 TPS, s5 t2 exhaust manifold with s5 t2 turbo, n370 ecu, n370 pressure sensor, n370 afm, s5 na red top round injectors, walbro fuel pump, n370 alternator, FMIC. My oil feed line for my turbo is a split coming off the original oil line at the base driver front corner of the Engine. I am currently running a NA drive train and NA tranny..
I too am a audio-video-lighting-tinter so I am a newb to my 6 port turbo set up. If my engine ends up going it will not be due to me but due to past owners not setting it up properly. I will also still go 6 port turbo if my engine does go just do it right from day one.... Then not have to worry...
I had a problem starting my car for over a week due to the cold weather and dead battery and then flooding my car. But I got it started again tonight and my car runs fine with the current set up. That is the way I bought it. I just bought it about 3 weeks ago.
Now I plan on upgrading my current set up because I feel my set up is not proper for a 6 port turbo set up.
I plan on going stand alone, upgrading my injectors, upgrading my turbo, and getting a T2 Tranny and drive shaft but use my na rear. I already have a FMIC, Boost controller, BOV, Upgraded fuel pump.
Oh yeah my oil pan I am not 100% sure how they rigged it.. But it does have some tube sticking down from it... =)
Like I said before I am a newb to my set up and I can't really give advice about how to set up your car but I just figured maybe this info might help. I too am still learning a lot about my 6 port turbo set up.
Last edited by MazdaRX7.ws; 03-08-09 at 12:14 AM. Reason: added info about clutch
03-08-09, 12:03 PM
#23
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What size injectors do i need, what stand alone would you guys reccomend, is the haltech plug'n'play decent?
For that turbo, 550CC primary, 800CC secondary and stage them a bit earlier.
03-09-09, 03:55 AM
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What happens if i don't and anti surge compressor?
Okay, can i bolt a TII transmission to an NA block? also if i use the na transmission, what would i have to do to it in order for it to be able to handle the power this turbo upgrade will produce?
Haltech makes a plug and play specifically for the FC3S
you're speaking gearheadese to me, stage them?
I don't like plug and play standalone installations because they rely on old wiring. If you can do the wiring, starting with a flying lead harness is the best bet. Unless you are talking about the plug and play harness for the RX-7, which is a good choice. Haltechs are fine.
you're speaking gearheadese to me, stage them?
Last edited by ROTOdethMACHINE; 03-09-09 at 03:57 AM.
03-09-09, 10:03 AM
#25
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Nothing. It's just unnecessary for this application and slightly reduces efficiency. Sounds neat though.
See the FAQ for transmission swapping info.
The TII transmission bolts on but requires the complete TII drivetrain (see FAQ).
There's nothing really you can do to the NA transmission which is a worthwhile upgrade. All upgrades will cost much more then just going to a TII transmission.
2nd Gen RX-7s have 4 injectors; two primary, two secondary. Below about 3800 RPM and 2" of vacuum, it operates on the primary injectors only. When engine speed is higher then 3800RPM and less vacuum is being drawn then 2" (WOT, boost, etc.) then the primaries are ramped down a bit and the secondaries are bought in. The car is no being fuelled by 4 injectors. As fuel requirements increase, all injectors ramp up.
With a small and fast spooling turbo, you will want to bring in the secondaries sooner.
Okay, can i bolt a TII transmission to an NA block? also if i use the na transmission, what would i have to do to it in order for it to be able to handle the power this turbo upgrade will produce?
The TII transmission bolts on but requires the complete TII drivetrain (see FAQ).
There's nothing really you can do to the NA transmission which is a worthwhile upgrade. All upgrades will cost much more then just going to a TII transmission.
you're speaking gearheadese to me, stage them?
With a small and fast spooling turbo, you will want to bring in the secondaries sooner.