Tunning ?'s
04-11-07, 12:05 PM
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Tunning ?'s
sooo...Im trying to get 430-50ish and at the end is all about the tunning and the componets used to do it, my ? is, is there anything for about 300-500 bucks that will let me get to that power? if not then what can I do or use besides a full standalone?
04-11-07, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
I really think you should consider a standalone. Those are not easy power levels to achieve. Why would you build something to push that kind of HP then leave it to a 300 dollar piggy back?
thats why I was wondering if there is an altenative (though I know the stand alone is the way to go)
P.S also I was thinking of tuning this at E85, yay nay? teach me! lol
04-11-07, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RETed
NOS!
-Ted
-Ted
nos is stuiped. its like $400 for a bottle and system and it will only raise the power out put while you use it and not all the time. and then when you use it all then you have a 10lb bottle adding weight when you are trying to race the car.
04-11-07, 01:52 PM
#6
Nothing wrong with nitrous. Why run around with 500hp when the only time you really need it is at the track? And comparitevly a proper wet system setup to add about 300hp would only be about 1/8 the cost of building a proper 450-500hp turbo setup.
To the OP. There's lots of cheaper standalone alternatives such as the Megasquirt. However I'm going to assholeishly comment that if you can't afford a decent standalone...you're a hell of a long ways from affording 450+hp. Sorry, but its true.
Either way though I'd look into the MS or even a used microtech unit. Hell, new the LT-8 is a hair over $1000. Not too bad actually considering its a proven unit.
To the OP. There's lots of cheaper standalone alternatives such as the Megasquirt. However I'm going to assholeishly comment that if you can't afford a decent standalone...you're a hell of a long ways from affording 450+hp. Sorry, but its true.
Either way though I'd look into the MS or even a used microtech unit. Hell, new the LT-8 is a hair over $1000. Not too bad actually considering its a proven unit.
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04-11-07, 03:47 PM
#8
^^now THAT'S how you belittle someone!! He's not a dreamer, he's more like an uninformed Fad follower that wants to beat anything that pulls up next to him. Those who want 3 rotors in their FC's are dreamers.
do it right the first time or do it 3,4,5 times. The problem I've noticed with the newer rotary "enthusiasts" (in quotes because I don't consider many of the new RX7 owners enthusiasts. They're more like fad followers/street racers upgrading from Hondas) is that they want to have 400-500HP and expect it to an easy task.
How about you get your car running perfect and slowly begin with the bolt-ons. Once you have everything then begin working on your fuel setup and turbo (adjust fuel according to the turbo) and top it off with a good engine management system and a really good tune.
as a newbie you SHOULD NOT be asking questions about tuning a 7 to 400+HP. You should be asking HOW CAN I MAINTAIN THIS CAR SO WHEN I'M READY TO BUILD HP it will last LONGER THAN 2 days @450HP.
do it right the first time or do it 3,4,5 times. The problem I've noticed with the newer rotary "enthusiasts" (in quotes because I don't consider many of the new RX7 owners enthusiasts. They're more like fad followers/street racers upgrading from Hondas) is that they want to have 400-500HP and expect it to an easy task.
How about you get your car running perfect and slowly begin with the bolt-ons. Once you have everything then begin working on your fuel setup and turbo (adjust fuel according to the turbo) and top it off with a good engine management system and a really good tune.
as a newbie you SHOULD NOT be asking questions about tuning a 7 to 400+HP. You should be asking HOW CAN I MAINTAIN THIS CAR SO WHEN I'M READY TO BUILD HP it will last LONGER THAN 2 days @450HP.
Last edited by phoenix7; 04-11-07 at 04:00 PM.
04-11-07, 04:16 PM
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If I remember correctly a MS unit goes for under 500$. Be prepare to assemble them yourself though. They are cheap compared to other stand alones but require a lot of knowledge to be used properly. They are as reliable as you make them.
04-11-07, 04:46 PM
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i saw this, http://www.strippermotorsports.com/marx7tujetch.html and since we were talking about tunning, is this a good solution to lean out rx7?
04-11-07, 04:47 PM
#11
Originally Posted by RB_eater
If I remember correctly a MS unit goes for under 500$. Be prepare to assemble them yourself though. They are cheap compared to other stand alones but require a lot of knowledge to be used properly. They are as reliable as you make them.
Yes a bare bones un-assembled MS will run short of $500. For units that are plug and play like the Zeal one, you're over that by a small margin (just hit me, dunno if Zeal is still making these??)
There's numerous members running big number setups on the squirt. One local is running his 10thAE into the 11's on an MS.
But they're certainly not for the electrically challenged. Or at least, not for the electrically challeneged who don't have close, electrically inclined friends
i saw this, http://www.strippermotorsports.com/marx7tujetch.html and since we were talking about tunning, is this a good solution to lean out rx7?
) but not for these cars.
04-11-07, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by classicauto
Good description
Yes a bare bones un-assembled MS will run short of $500. For units that are plug and play like the Zeal one, you're over that by a small margin (just hit me, dunno if Zeal is still making these??)
There's numerous members running big number setups on the squirt. One local is running his 10thAE into the 11's on an MS.
But they're certainly not for the electrically challenged. Or at least, not for the electrically challeneged who don't have close, electrically inclined friends
Yes a bare bones un-assembled MS will run short of $500. For units that are plug and play like the Zeal one, you're over that by a small margin (just hit me, dunno if Zeal is still making these??)
There's numerous members running big number setups on the squirt. One local is running his 10thAE into the 11's on an MS.
But they're certainly not for the electrically challenged. Or at least, not for the electrically challeneged who don't have close, electrically inclined friends
04-11-07, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dosracin
yea Im actually not bad working on elec. circuits I was actully going to ask in another forum if anyone by any chance had the diagram to any of the standalones cause then I could just replicate it n prob. save me some $ for something else
04-11-07, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RB_eater
I'm pretty sure those are company secrets and you would have to be something like an electrical engineer to open them and figure it out. I'd really like to see some diagrams though...
I tell you what I know there's gotta be someone with one, if not then here's my call peeps, if you have a broken one send it to me so I can do some reverse engineering and then we can all benefit from it (did i spell everything right? gotta make sure I dont want anybody crying) ;] lol
04-11-07, 06:00 PM
#16
$300-500 will not get you the tools you need to reverse engineer a standalone. Nor will you be able to produce a replica for less than it costs to buy one. They're not simple devices, and most of them have FPGAs and such that will be nearly impossible to reverse engineer cheaply.
If you have the skills to do that, you'd be better off buying the parts and building a Megasquirt. They're a fully programmable standalone, with ignition support (via a daughtercard). If you have the skills, a Megasquirt will let you do pretty much anything you want, and anything you can do with a more expensive standalone. If it doesn't do what you want, just modify the firmware on it (in assembly, or you might be able to get a C compiler for the chips used) to do what you want.
Have you thought about the supporting bits needed to handle 400+WHP? It's not cheap, at all. I don't think I'd attempt 400whp without $6000+ available, probably closer to $10k.
"Cheap, powerful, reliable. Pick any two." That applies here. You *can* get 400whp without huge sums of money. And the engine won't last terribly long. To do it reliably, you need a lot done.
You also need to consider the supporting systems. You have to reengineer most everything on the car to safely handle that much power. The fuel pump/lines, possibly a surge tank in the engine bay, the radiator, oil cooler(s), intercooler setup. The land around the dowel pins tends to crack at high outputs. The ignition system should be upgraded to reliably fire the dense mixture you'll have. You also want to make sure your LSD is rebuilt, so it can help get the power to the ground. Depending on your brakes, you'll want to upgrade them or at least add ducting so they have a chance of keeping cool. You probably want to upgrade your suspension so you can adjust the car to handle the power. And lots of other things I don't even know about.
You also need good instrumentation to properly tune for that kind of power. A wideband and EGT probe are the basics for tuning that kind of power, but you'd probably be interested in things like compressor outlet temperature, and intake charge temperature. You'll also want water and oil temperature, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.
400hp is pushing the engine close to it's physical limits. It's doable, but it's not cheap.
-=Russ=-
If you have the skills to do that, you'd be better off buying the parts and building a Megasquirt. They're a fully programmable standalone, with ignition support (via a daughtercard). If you have the skills, a Megasquirt will let you do pretty much anything you want, and anything you can do with a more expensive standalone. If it doesn't do what you want, just modify the firmware on it (in assembly, or you might be able to get a C compiler for the chips used) to do what you want.
Have you thought about the supporting bits needed to handle 400+WHP? It's not cheap, at all. I don't think I'd attempt 400whp without $6000+ available, probably closer to $10k.
"Cheap, powerful, reliable. Pick any two." That applies here. You *can* get 400whp without huge sums of money. And the engine won't last terribly long. To do it reliably, you need a lot done.
You also need to consider the supporting systems. You have to reengineer most everything on the car to safely handle that much power. The fuel pump/lines, possibly a surge tank in the engine bay, the radiator, oil cooler(s), intercooler setup. The land around the dowel pins tends to crack at high outputs. The ignition system should be upgraded to reliably fire the dense mixture you'll have. You also want to make sure your LSD is rebuilt, so it can help get the power to the ground. Depending on your brakes, you'll want to upgrade them or at least add ducting so they have a chance of keeping cool. You probably want to upgrade your suspension so you can adjust the car to handle the power. And lots of other things I don't even know about.
You also need good instrumentation to properly tune for that kind of power. A wideband and EGT probe are the basics for tuning that kind of power, but you'd probably be interested in things like compressor outlet temperature, and intake charge temperature. You'll also want water and oil temperature, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.
400hp is pushing the engine close to it's physical limits. It's doable, but it's not cheap.
-=Russ=-
04-11-07, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Syonyk
$300-500 will not get you the tools you need to reverse engineer a standalone. Nor will you be able to produce a replica for less than it costs to buy one. They're not simple devices, and most of them have FPGAs and such that will be nearly impossible to reverse engineer cheaply.
If you have the skills to do that, you'd be better off buying the parts and building a Megasquirt. They're a fully programmable standalone, with ignition support (via a daughtercard). If you have the skills, a Megasquirt will let you do pretty much anything you want, and anything you can do with a more expensive standalone. If it doesn't do what you want, just modify the firmware on it (in assembly, or you might be able to get a C compiler for the chips used) to do what you want.
Have you thought about the supporting bits needed to handle 400+WHP? It's not cheap, at all. I don't think I'd attempt 400whp without $6000+ available, probably closer to $10k.
"Cheap, powerful, reliable. Pick any two." That applies here. You *can* get 400whp without huge sums of money. And the engine won't last terribly long. To do it reliably, you need a lot done.
You also need to consider the supporting systems. You have to reengineer most everything on the car to safely handle that much power. The fuel pump/lines, possibly a surge tank in the engine bay, the radiator, oil cooler(s), intercooler setup. The land around the dowel pins tends to crack at high outputs. The ignition system should be upgraded to reliably fire the dense mixture you'll have. You also want to make sure your LSD is rebuilt, so it can help get the power to the ground. Depending on your brakes, you'll want to upgrade them or at least add ducting so they have a chance of keeping cool. You probably want to upgrade your suspension so you can adjust the car to handle the power. And lots of other things I don't even know about.
You also need good instrumentation to properly tune for that kind of power. A wideband and EGT probe are the basics for tuning that kind of power, but you'd probably be interested in things like compressor outlet temperature, and intake charge temperature. You'll also want water and oil temperature, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.
400hp is pushing the engine close to it's physical limits. It's doable, but it's not cheap.
-=Russ=-
If you have the skills to do that, you'd be better off buying the parts and building a Megasquirt. They're a fully programmable standalone, with ignition support (via a daughtercard). If you have the skills, a Megasquirt will let you do pretty much anything you want, and anything you can do with a more expensive standalone. If it doesn't do what you want, just modify the firmware on it (in assembly, or you might be able to get a C compiler for the chips used) to do what you want.
Have you thought about the supporting bits needed to handle 400+WHP? It's not cheap, at all. I don't think I'd attempt 400whp without $6000+ available, probably closer to $10k.
"Cheap, powerful, reliable. Pick any two." That applies here. You *can* get 400whp without huge sums of money. And the engine won't last terribly long. To do it reliably, you need a lot done.
You also need to consider the supporting systems. You have to reengineer most everything on the car to safely handle that much power. The fuel pump/lines, possibly a surge tank in the engine bay, the radiator, oil cooler(s), intercooler setup. The land around the dowel pins tends to crack at high outputs. The ignition system should be upgraded to reliably fire the dense mixture you'll have. You also want to make sure your LSD is rebuilt, so it can help get the power to the ground. Depending on your brakes, you'll want to upgrade them or at least add ducting so they have a chance of keeping cool. You probably want to upgrade your suspension so you can adjust the car to handle the power. And lots of other things I don't even know about.
You also need good instrumentation to properly tune for that kind of power. A wideband and EGT probe are the basics for tuning that kind of power, but you'd probably be interested in things like compressor outlet temperature, and intake charge temperature. You'll also want water and oil temperature, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.
400hp is pushing the engine close to it's physical limits. It's doable, but it's not cheap.
-=Russ=-
Last edited by Aaron Cake; 04-11-07 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Remove flame
04-11-07, 06:36 PM
#18
So... you'll reverse engineer the circuit board, but not reverse engineer the chips, some of which have custom programming inside? You'd need flash readers and such at the minimum, assuming it was using a bog standard chip just running code.
Go look in the aftermarket ECU section of the forum - there's information on a variety of standalones, including the Megasquirt.
-=Russ=-
Go look in the aftermarket ECU section of the forum - there's information on a variety of standalones, including the Megasquirt.
-=Russ=-
04-11-07, 07:09 PM
#20
Not that you would care, but I think you should be getting a ban soon. The mods talk tough but a rarely see them do what needs to be done. Like this asshat Turbo-2.
And DOSRacin, I really think you would be alot more happy keeping it simple and reliable at maybe 300-325whp. this can be achieved with a simple Rtek chip, or a standalone if youd like, Along with an upgraded turbo, either BNR hybrid, which will be a direct bolt up to the stock manifold, or some other aftermarket turbo. Itll cost you MUCH MUCH less and will plenty of fun. 300-325whp will get you into the 12's no problem. Not tryin to change your mind, but I think this would be the smarter route. keeping a 400whp+ car on the road is neither fun or easy/cheap.
And DOSRacin, I really think you would be alot more happy keeping it simple and reliable at maybe 300-325whp. this can be achieved with a simple Rtek chip, or a standalone if youd like, Along with an upgraded turbo, either BNR hybrid, which will be a direct bolt up to the stock manifold, or some other aftermarket turbo. Itll cost you MUCH MUCH less and will plenty of fun. 300-325whp will get you into the 12's no problem. Not tryin to change your mind, but I think this would be the smarter route. keeping a 400whp+ car on the road is neither fun or easy/cheap.
04-11-07, 07:16 PM
#21
yeah. Turbo-2 has a lil anger issue. Granted DOS hasn't been the best of noobs and his posts aren't very insightful or well thought out but turbo-2 is just annoying. He should have stopped after his first post (kinda like me, an ******* but at the same time KINDA helpful and then leave you alone to run into walls by yourself.)
I do agree with the majority: Go megasquirt if you have the ability to work on electronics or spend $1200 on a GOOD stanalone system. I was going to recommend some piggy-backs but for your HP "GOALS" you'd be better off with a standalone. I think you should take a breath, RESEARCH A LOT MORE AND THEN RE-EVALUATE YOUR GOALS ANS ASPIRATIONS. Do not BUY everything you THINK you need, like another forum member, only to find out you wasted your cash and parts that won't help you.
DOS: if you don't take anything I say seriously then that's ok, but the #1 tip I can give you is: If you don't like our answers IGNORE US. You're not obligated to respond to us, and if you reply with an asshat (or in your case WEAK) responses then you'll only be setting yourself up for the next barrage or atttacks. LEARN TO KNOW WHEN TO STFU.
I do agree with the majority: Go megasquirt if you have the ability to work on electronics or spend $1200 on a GOOD stanalone system. I was going to recommend some piggy-backs but for your HP "GOALS" you'd be better off with a standalone. I think you should take a breath, RESEARCH A LOT MORE AND THEN RE-EVALUATE YOUR GOALS ANS ASPIRATIONS. Do not BUY everything you THINK you need, like another forum member, only to find out you wasted your cash and parts that won't help you.
DOS: if you don't take anything I say seriously then that's ok, but the #1 tip I can give you is: If you don't like our answers IGNORE US. You're not obligated to respond to us, and if you reply with an asshat (or in your case WEAK) responses then you'll only be setting yourself up for the next barrage or atttacks. LEARN TO KNOW WHEN TO STFU.
04-11-07, 07:16 PM
#22
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I thought about doing the whole e85 thing but there was just to much little stuff that needed to be changed. If you are interested http://e85forum.com/forum-1.html has a bunch of good information and a lot of helpful people.
04-11-07, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FCKing1995
Not that you would care, but I think you should be getting a ban soon. The mods talk tough but a rarely see them do what needs to be done. Like this asshat Turbo-2.
And DOSRacin, I really think you would be alot more happy keeping it simple and reliable at maybe 300-325whp. this can be achieved with a simple Rtek chip, or a standalone if youd like, Along with an upgraded turbo, either BNR hybrid, which will be a direct bolt up to the stock manifold, or some other aftermarket turbo. Itll cost you MUCH MUCH less and will plenty of fun. 300-325whp will get you into the 12's no problem. Not tryin to change your mind, but I think this would be the smarter route. keeping a 400whp+ car on the road is neither fun or easy/cheap.
And DOSRacin, I really think you would be alot more happy keeping it simple and reliable at maybe 300-325whp. this can be achieved with a simple Rtek chip, or a standalone if youd like, Along with an upgraded turbo, either BNR hybrid, which will be a direct bolt up to the stock manifold, or some other aftermarket turbo. Itll cost you MUCH MUCH less and will plenty of fun. 300-325whp will get you into the 12's no problem. Not tryin to change your mind, but I think this would be the smarter route. keeping a 400whp+ car on the road is neither fun or easy/cheap.
04-11-07, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by phoenix7
yeah. Turbo-2 has a lil anger issue. Granted DOS hasn't been the best of noobs and his posts aren't very insightful or well thought out but turbo-2 is just annoying. He should have stopped after his first post (kinda like me, an ******* but at the same time KINDA helpful and then leave you alone to run into walls by yourself.)
I do agree with the majority: Go megasquirt if you have the ability to work on electronics or spend $1200 on a GOOD stanalone system. I was going to recommend some piggy-backs but for your HP "GOALS" you'd be better off with a standalone. I think you should take a breath, RESEARCH A LOT MORE AND THEN RE-EVALUATE YOUR GOALS ANS ASPIRATIONS. Do not BUY everything you THINK you need, like another forum member, only to find out you wasted your cash and parts that won't help you.
DOS: if you don't take anything I say seriously then that's ok, but the #1 tip I can give you is: If you don't like our answers IGNORE US. You're not obligated to respond to us, and if you reply with an asshat (or in your case WEAK) responses then you'll only be setting yourself up for the next barrage or atttacks. LEARN TO KNOW WHEN TO STFU.
I do agree with the majority: Go megasquirt if you have the ability to work on electronics or spend $1200 on a GOOD stanalone system. I was going to recommend some piggy-backs but for your HP "GOALS" you'd be better off with a standalone. I think you should take a breath, RESEARCH A LOT MORE AND THEN RE-EVALUATE YOUR GOALS ANS ASPIRATIONS. Do not BUY everything you THINK you need, like another forum member, only to find out you wasted your cash and parts that won't help you.
DOS: if you don't take anything I say seriously then that's ok, but the #1 tip I can give you is: If you don't like our answers IGNORE US. You're not obligated to respond to us, and if you reply with an asshat (or in your case WEAK) responses then you'll only be setting yourself up for the next barrage or atttacks. LEARN TO KNOW WHEN TO STFU.
04-11-07, 07:38 PM
#25
Alot of budget guys use megasquirt. I would myself, but I dont feel like going into that sort of work at the moment. I would rather just spend $400 more and buy one ready to drop in, with a map already installed. Megasquirt is for the hardcore do it yourself crowd, which I am not part of (for the most part, I have always done my own work, but wouldnt do an ECU).
I think Microtech/Haltech might be the best bet for a good ECU. Can get one for around $900-$1100 with partial harness. That along with a nice size aftermarket turbo, exhaust and some 720cc or 750cc Primaries and 1300cc or 1600cc Secondaries. Along with the other goodies like Ignition parts, and others youll need should get you to 400whp. As long as your engine is freshly rebuilt or low milage. Probably wouldnt hurt to have a ported engine. just make it that much easier to reach your goal. Also what engine you running? S4 or S5?
And dont take what some people say to heart, we have alot of uptight people here who are constantly on their period it seems. Just gotta live with them
I think Microtech/Haltech might be the best bet for a good ECU. Can get one for around $900-$1100 with partial harness. That along with a nice size aftermarket turbo, exhaust and some 720cc or 750cc Primaries and 1300cc or 1600cc Secondaries. Along with the other goodies like Ignition parts, and others youll need should get you to 400whp. As long as your engine is freshly rebuilt or low milage. Probably wouldnt hurt to have a ported engine. just make it that much easier to reach your goal. Also what engine you running? S4 or S5?
And dont take what some people say to heart, we have alot of uptight people here who are constantly on their period it seems. Just gotta live with them
Last edited by Aaron Cake; 04-11-07 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Remove possible insult to member