Amur_

I believe that they're on the engine section of the harness (E). We did a rebuild and transplant recently, and we have two connectors hanging loose that we haven't ID'ed yet.

Both have a single wire. One has a black wire with a little red 'splotch' about every inch or so, and the other connector has a black wire with a dark green stripe.

Both of these are just a little upstream from the starter motor.

Oh, and they're both coming out of the same spot on the harness. And they're by themselves.

Amur_

bah-ump-dump

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Oil level and oil temp connections? Those are the only two I can think of in that area.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

(walking back from inspecting tranny/charging harness sitting in living room)

Those go to the various sensors on the tranny - look on the tranny for something to plug 'em into.

Dale

Amur_

Will follow up next chance (Wednesday night - thank god I'm dumping one of my part-time jobs; I barely have time to pick my nose anymore, never mind finish this FC and look after myself.)

Thanx to you both! I'll be sure to post when I do find out what they're intended for...

Icemark

sure its not Blk/Yel instead of Blk/grn??? Blk/Yel is the positive into the reverse light switch.

Or Grn/Blk??? that would be the output to the ECU from the neutral safety switch.

The only reason I ask, is that I can't think of even one blk/green wire in the car, except for the starter wire, coming from the clutch interlock switch going to the starter kill relay and in the series 4 cars the ignition wire feed for the starter kill relay.

The solid black with dots is ground.

Amur_

I'm very certain that the one is blk/grn. Looked right at it and twisted it around to look at it from all sides.

We've been wondering if the interlock switch has something to do with our problem (no power to the starter.) The thing is, we haven't found any unused connectors anywhere near these unused ones...

HAILERS

Ah! The real problem is the starter! Interlock switch.

Go to the connector on the interlock switch on the clutch. Put a meter on the BLACK/RED wire and turn the key to start. Got voltage? Good. Jumper the BLACK/RED wire with the BLACK/GREEN wire(make that a permanent connection) and start the car.

Still not start? Check the voltage at the small starter wire at starter solenoid when the key is turned to start. Got voltage? Most likely a solenoid problem....but

Earlier if you did not get 12v at the BLACK/RED wire with the key turned to start, then you have a key switch problem or the wire that feeds the switch is disconnected(did a engine removal did you). The most likely place for that wire to be disconnected, is about four of five inches below the engine fuse box. Single black wire has a connector there that gets pulled off on occasion.

Another thing that can cause no power at the starter, but not likely. If your car does not have a theft device, there is a connection that you might take a look at. Its hidden under the TRAIL COIL ASSY. Can't miss it. Its a BLUE connector with a single wire on it that jumpers from one socket to the other. It must be there(the jumper). This outfit takes the place of the starter cut relay that is used on cars with theft protection.

If you have theft protection.......lose it.

Amur_

This model is the basest of the base. Not even p/s. And certainly no anti-theft (being the lowest model, perhaps a 'Steal Me' sign would be more fitting.)

We will follow each of these up. I've taken the night off after just about keeling over this afternoon (little sleep + little food + too much sun + too much heat = teetering 7 owner) and Infini's stopping by (I'm gonna get smacked for the Steal Me comment when she sees it) and we'll get on it. As much as we can, anyway - we won't have a voltage tester with us.)

Once again, Hailers - YOU ROCK!

Amur_

Awright, we're at the car (it's getting dark out way too early - can't get enough work done!) I found the wire beneath the trailing coil assembly. Or, more exactly, I found A wire that comes out of the wiring harness, white with two blue stripes (one on each side) with a blue connector. And I didn't find anything to connect it to. I pulled the coil pack and poked around but nada.

Is this the wire and where is it meant to go?

HAILERS

Bad timing. I'm doing a second shift for three weeks. No car to look at right now. Maybe in thirty minutes or so during lunch.

Amur_

More new 411.

I got at the clutch switch. There are two dark green wires coming out of the switch to the 1st connector and then one white wire with 2 blue stripes (identical to the one I found under the coil pack) and one black wire with a yellow stripe.

With the key in start, we had power to the black/yellow wire...

And this means...?

HAILERS

There are two clutch switches. One is for cruise control(black/yellow and Yellow/blue wires)forget about it.

The other clutch switch should have a black/red and a black green wires. Thats the one you should have interest in. The black/red should have 12v when the key is turned to start. Do you have that????????

Amur_

This '2nd switch' isn't something I'm finding - either in the car or in the FSM (6-5.)

And I've just been told that the car is an 87. My bad.

On 15-175 of the FSM, only one switch is shown on the clutch. It would seem that the one switch may serve two purposes (interlock and cc.) Or am I just talking through my hat?

HAILERS

No, not really. I know of another guy who was very experienced in the electrical aspects of the car, and he swore his had no interlock sw. Go figue.

If you have a meter, why not pull that small wire off the starter and put your positive lead on the small wire and you negative lead on a good ground. Then turn the key to start. Do you see any voltage???????

Icemark

Actually only the 86 models didn't have the interlock. The 87 and 88 models are exactly the same on the interlock and kill circuit.

The two large gauge green wires he found at the clutch pedal are the clutch interlock switch wires, they go to a plug in the drivers kick panel, and from there one side goes to the start kill relay (or in Amurs case, probably the start kill jumper). The other side of course goes to the ignition switch's starter wire.

He should be able to go right to the Starter kill jumper and test right there. It was on all 87 and later cars. With it unplugged, he will find 12V+ if the clutch is pressed in while the key is in the crank position on one wire, and ground (if he hooked the starter up) on the other large gauge wire.

*Edit
BTW the second switch is only on cars with Cruise. since he has a strippy I doubt he has cruise and therefore probably doesn't have the second switch.

HAILERS

I'm gonna have to give up. The 88 manual that I can look at online at work shows a black/red wire feeding the interlock switch and a black/green wire leaving the interlock switch and going to the starter cut relay(in this case a jumper plug in its place) then on to the starter.

I've a 87n/a and the first thing I ridded myself of was that business of having to depress the clutch to start the car. I only had two wires,one I know was black/green, the other I forget off hand.

My 87fsm at home seems to differ from what I'm reading too.

On the whole, if you pull that blue jumper off and run a wire from your positive post on the battery to the large black/white wire at the jumpered plug, the starter should flip over. About all that would prove is the starter turns over.

ICEMARK.....what is the black/yellow wire that he mentions?????? If not for cruise control?

Amur_

Which is that unconnected wire I described 5 posts ago, right? The relay is F-03, right? Page 50-17 in the FSM?



But the other wire I found coming off the interlock connector was B/Y. Granted, it was a crummy yellow, like it had been white but had somehow faded or degraded.



For the time being we only have a circuit tester.

There is a gang plug going into the starter cut relay. Which of its wires should I be checking. I'm looking at 50-18 in the back of the FSM. And where in this diagram does the mystic W/LB/LB (white/light blue/light blue) wire fit in? I don't see anything like it in this diagram.

Infini is here and offended that you've called her car a 'strippy.' It's not my boat, eh?

Icemark

Yep, but on the 87-88 those two wires plug into a couple of large gauge green wires that are soldered onto the switch. Unlike the later models, which had the plug and the switch all as one thing.

Quote:

I've a 87n/a and the first thing I ridded myself of was that business of having to depress the clutch to start the car. I only had two wires,one I know was black/green, the other I forget off hand.

Hmmm don't know if I agree with that approach.

Quote:

My 87fsm at home seems to differ from what I'm reading too.

On the whole, if you pull that blue jumper off and run a wire from your positive post on the battery to the large black/white wire at the jumpered plug, the starter should flip over. About all that would prove is the starter turns over.

ICEMARK.....what is the black/yellow wire that he mentions?????? If not for cruise control?

yes the factory manuals are not always correct on the starter wire set up. For example the 87 Turbo manual doesn't even show the interlock switch, yet we all know that it is on every 87 and later car. Intresting it does show up in the Haynes copy which is just a dupicate of the factroy manual on the wire diagrams.

Well since he has been horrible about telling us about wire gauge size, On the Black/yellow I can only guess that if it is a thin gauge wire it is too the plug for the cruise switch, and if it is thick then its from the ignition switch, or that he is seeing the color incorrectly.

Amur_

We are also using an 88 FSM. It has been very puzzling trying to reconcile everything.



My 86 is wired the same way, but I owe that to a previous owner.



The blue jumper is already off. I am unable to determine what it is off 'of.' And "at the jumpered plug" refers to which plug? We're getting a little lost in this.

Amur_

You have no idea as to what a relief it is to read that!



We didn't realize that that info would be helpful.

Vision's all good here. I was concerned that the light from my flashlight might have been changing the appearance of the colour, but those wires that were nearby with white **were white.**

The 2 wires coming off of the connector from the interlock are of a slightly smaller gauge than the all-green wires between the connector and the interlock. Like 16, maybe - we'd have to check to be certain (everything looks bigger when it's right in front of your nose...)

Icemark

Okay, sorry, we'll run though again...circuit goes like this, from the key to the interlock (more than likely black/red large gauge wire from the switch to the green thick wires for the interlock), from the interlock to the starter kill relay (should be a black/green). In your case because you have base strippy (sorry what else do you want to call it) there is just a jumper there on the plug. It is a 4 pin plug with two thick wires and two thin and it is found under the hood near the clutch master. The jumper is just a thick wire going from one pin in the plug to the other (in your case it should be black/green jumping to black/white) or its part of the cap on the plug.

From the starter kill relay plug under the hood the black/white should be going to the starter then from that starter kill plug.

Note that without the large gauge black wire jumper or relay plug cap, between the thick black/green and thick black/white that the car should not start at all.

Again the two large gauge green are part of the interlock, they mate up to a different plug in the drivers kick panel.

and I was just teasing a little about the wire gauge thing. But yep it really does help though. Thick wires are gonna be only starter, and ignition/alt related, while thin wires are circuits, such as lights, switchs, sensors, etc.

Now if the wires are not in the plug (refering to your first post) you may have to just jump them together and bypass the plug if it is missing

Amur_

Okay, I've found a mistake I've been making in our dialogue. The white/light blue/light blue wire that I found by the coil pack had a blue connector on the end. I presumed that previous references to 'jumpered plug' meant this connector. It's a connector much like the one that goes onto that prong at the base of the oil filler neck. It was this blue connector that I was unable to find a 'home' for. And this blue connector's wire is identical to the white/light blue/light blue wire that is coming off of the interlock's 1st connector/plug.




Got it! But I won't be able to look for it until tomorrow at the earliest - gotta get up for work in 5 hours...



Oops, lost me again. I'll try to HTML a diagram. Hang on to your hat!


/interlock/ ---green---/connector/plug/---B/Y--------

/______/---green---/___________/---W/LB/LB---

I'll try to keep that in mind.

Icemark

Here maybe this helps:

<ign switch--->>---B/R---<<---G---interlock---G---<<---B/G---<<starterkillrelayPlug in---Jumper---StartKillRelayPlug out>>---B/W---O starter

where ever there is "<<" that is a connection through a plug.

Icemark

and I'll take a couple of pictures with the web cam in the morning.