psalad

oh btw the other cable is a latter add on the spade connector is factory original and should connect to the engines rear housing these have a tendancy of breaking off with time so maybe that is why someone has added this other wire and it has been left off in the past. connect it to the engines rear housing if the original wire has come off it helps with grounding but isnt essential till the engine is starting.

Burks

i've never used a multimeter before, but here is a pic of the multimeter, and the setting it is set to. Dude i borrowed it from said use this setting.





what do you mean by place a link across the coupler? like the paper clip thing from the side ways side, to the up and down side?

psalad

The Multimeter in your picture is set to the AC 200 volt range you need to set it to the DC 20 range for working with the types of voltage you will find in a car which is Direct Current "DC" . because it is battery powered, the range you had it set on in the photo is for checking Alternatig current "AC" circuits found in your home wiring systems having it set on the wrong range will give you unexpected results like this!

As for linking the check connector a bent papper clip is fine across the sideways mounted terminal and the vertically munted terminl. I prefer to use a piece of wire as the insulation prevents it touching anything and damaging the ECU or something, if you do use a papper clip be really careful it does not come into contact with any metal nearby.

Burks

okay, the DC 20 setting made it 11.8, and when i put a wire link the fuel pump turned on and was making a steady noise

Cubanskater45

most cars need about 12.45v DC voltage to crank the starter strong. but even with 11 it should normally click or something. if your starter is not turning that's your 1st problem. Have you had the starter tested? Have you checked to make all your starter system connections are tight, and clean? I had the same problem before, after i pulled and reinstalled my tranny, and i found i forgot to put the ground cable on the bell housing, and i have seen the nut's holding the starter cables down come loose. I recommend charging your battery, and checking your grounds. you should never have voltage on a ground side of anything. that means your grounds are weak. good luck

psalad

Sorry got a little lost with this thread have you got the engine cranking on the starter?
if so does is sound free and not struggling of sometimes goes faster than others,
You have fuel and your pump is at least turning this is not conclusively telling you it is pumping good and strong. but at least you will get something happening as long as the engine is cranking and is not flooded.

Burks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojJdf8MECs

the video is being processed, but this is what it sounds like.

psalad

I am assuming you had the plugs in when you were cranking it in the video? If so it sounds like it has low comression.

Firstly check is isnt flooded by taking out the spark plugs, pulling the top two EGI fuses to prevent ans sparks froim the coils ignigting the fuel vapor that WILL come out of the spark plug holes if it is heavily flooded. then crank the engine for about 10 seconds you will hear a sucking and blowing sound from the plug holes as the rotors rotate in the housing they should sound the same if not maybe you have a stuck or sticking apex seal.
clean the plugs and dry any fuel residue from them before reinstalling them.
put the plugs and leads back where they came from and replace the fuses the engine has its best chance of starting when cranked after this procedure.

If you have a stuck or sticking apex seal try a little engine oil in the lower two plug holes and crank the engine whilst the plugs are out. BEWARE this step will make the engine smoke like CRAZY when you manage to start it, use the formula more oil = more smoke
The ATF 'trick' really is a means of last resort and this SMOKES and STINKS and does the engine a whole load of no good. so be sure to exhaust all other options before going down this route. I would even buy a compresion tester before doing the ATF thing.

Burks

K, thanks Psalad, i'm heading to walmart right now to pick up a qt of oil, and i'll do the deflooding and stuff first to build compression, if all else fails i'll do the ATF trick.


then i guess down the line of the rebuild lol.


i really appreciate all the help, very nice of you guys.

Burks

okay so i unplugged the spark plugs, and removed fuses, held key to start for 12 seconds, cleaned area around spark plug holes, installed plugs, tried to start, same thing happened as in video.

removed bottom plugs, put in some oil, cleaned area around holes, installed plugs again, went to start, same thing happened in the video.

Guess i'm down to my last resort, i heard the PUFF PUFF PUFF, out of at least one of the rotors, it was a loud Puff Puff Puff, Wife was asleep so i couldn't get to feel if it was the steady 3 puffs as reading in another post.


ATF TIME?

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

I haven't read everything, but have you checked for fuel? Have you checked to see if it is sparking? Have you checked compression?

I wouldn't bother with the ATF.

psalad

Got a set of plugs on order for my car they will be here tomorrow when I go to change them I will take a video of the engine cranking with compression and not starting also I will record when I have the plugs out so you have reference of the sound you should be hearing, but if you say the sound was loud I would guess you have at least some compression.

Did you check there is a spark yet? it is well worth pulling a plug or using an old one and put any plug lead on it and lay the plug on a exposed non painted metalic part in the engine bay and crank the engine to see if a spark is being generated. good idea to check all of them in case you have a duff plug lead.

Burks

i'll def check the spark tonight,

I should probably see if the injectors are working as well, as not alot of gas residue was on the bottom plug sockets.

if i pull one injector , and turn the car over, it should squirt gas out right?

it really sounds like compression is there, i'll check tonight with the wife starting the car, and me by the plug holes, should i leave the bottom two in, and just take the top two out?

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

yeah they injector should squirt gas.


leaving two plugs in is fine

Burks

K, so i searched for how to get to the injectors, i Take off the Intercooler, take off the upper intake manifold, and i should see them right?

at this time, should i replace any gaskets?

if so which site is preferred? i found this, but not sure if it is the gasket that i'll encounter while checking for fuel flow.

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/pr...cat=722&page=1

MazdaMike02

iTrader: (4)

Yellow one with black rubber around it is the fuel pump test port, if you jumper it with the key on it will force the fuel pump on.
The 3 prong green one on drivers fender near leading coils...you can check your TPS through there. The 6 prong one is for diagnostic purposes. The 1 prong black ones are for RPM testing.

Test your starter. As soon as you can check compression you don't want to waste time on something only to find out its blown.

Burks

Yeah, it def sounds like the compression is there, i mean it should be, being that its 75k on a rebuild, chances are it's at a steady 100, but still should crank.

still not known that fuel is entering the engine, but before i check for fuel since the pump is engaging, i'm going to take the starter off, and get it checked, that's another thing that hasn't been changed as the documents don't state a change of it. and it looks like every document is in this folder given to me from the 2 previous owners.


but wouldn't push starting the car result in the car actually starting, even if the starter is bad?

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

yeah you should be able to pop start it,

as far as gaskets go, I would say you should be fine unless something is messed up.

The only real gasket that I can think of would be the one between the upper and lower intake manifolds.

Compression test the damn thing already!!! even if it is good you will at least know where you stand.

Was the spark good?

psalad

Here is a video I took today of my engine so you can hear what the engine with good compresion sounds like cranking without starting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NXrKNbYN_U

As for taking the injectors out it is a bit of a pig of a job and it would be very strange indeed if they werent working one could be blocked but you would be firing on the other rotor, it seems you are getting no fuel injected or no spark. This could be due to a number of things bad AFM would cause no fuel to be injected into the engine and crank angle sensor would also be another cause of no fuel being injected. this would be shown up by no spark as if the crank angle sensor (CAS) is not working correctly the ECU does not know when to issue a spark.

Before you go tearing off the intercooler, dynamic chanmber and throttle body to get to the injectors search the forums to find out how to get the trouble codes from the ECU, they will tell you if you have a bad AFM, CAS, coil pack, and a failed injector. this will only cost you a few bucks for a 12volt LED and is dead easy to do getting to the injectors involves a new:

1 x Upper throttle body to lower intake manifold gasket mazda prat# N370-13-122
4 x Injector insulator N350-13-257
4 x Injector Grommet G574-13-252
4 x Injector O-ring 8574-13-253

as a minimum

Burks

i unplugged the wires, added some extra spark plugs and put them on the upper strut nut, and it sparked.



as for the Trouble Codes, i found out how to get them, and bought my male disconnects, and waiting for my LED's to get here from radio shack.

This should tell me if its the CAS or AFM.

where do you buy AFM and CAS from just want to price check

Burks

still waiting on the LED's =(


When you put a link between that connector for the fuel pump, does it pump fuel into the lines? what if i put injector cleaner in the tank, and ran it with peddle down for a little and purposely flood the car to clean the injectors out? Because i think with the mixture of old gasoline, i should fill the tank up with 93 and put in the injector cleaner, hold peddle down and attempt to start?

is this a possible scenario?

Burks

Got the LED's made the handy tester, and no trouble codes.


went ahead and freshened my battery up, and going to try to see if i can get fuel into the engine. i really don't think the injectors are working. I do smell fuel though.. i just don't think it's going into the engine. there is also no fuel on the floor.



is there a way to reset the ECU?


could my HKS FCON be contributing to a problem?

Burks

so after trying everything, checking spark, checking trouble codes, checking fuel pump, starter and all

I Decided that it was probably a stuck seal not allowing the car to start, so i put some MMO inside the leading plugs, and gave the engine a few spins to let distribute, and 24 hours later went to start, and nothing, decided to push start to test it out


and found GAS on the ground under the engine, A fuel line unhooked? where to look for gas lines? smoke was puffing out of the exhaust, but still wasn't going to turn over as no gasoline is getting into the engine at all i don't think. i even intentionally tried to flood the car, and then deflood the car with paper towels on the plugs for the residue and nothing. now i know why, but i don't know where to look. if it's going on the ground, and not going into the injectors, that means when previous owner was doing the T/O bearing on the transmission he might have clipped a line.