TMIC Heat Shield Mod
07-01-12, 03:11 PM
#1
TMIC Heat Shield Mod
Driving around on these hot summer days in CA, I was tired of the heat soak I would get from my TMIC. However, I am unwilling to go FMIC or Vmount. So, I had an idea... why not find a way to lesson the heat soak?
So this is what I did...
I covered the bottom side of the intercooler and heat shield with some thermal reflective type stuff. I found and purchased a 24"24" sheet of this:http://www.designengineering.com/cat...s/reflect-cool
Along with an Infrared gun so I can measure the before and after (sorry I have no IAT readouts)
First, I drove the car about 30 minutes to my friend's house where I did the mod.. got on it a few times, sat at a few lights, got to his house and popped the hood, and used my Infrared gun to measure the temps right smack in the middle of the inter cooler.
Temps were 136 degrees.
I then proceeded with the mod, basically it was really simple:
I used a can of brake clean and cleaned the crap out of the inter cooler and heat shield to make sure the adhesive would stick.
I used a pair of scissors to cut out the Reflect-A-Cool into sections to make it easier to apply.
Used a 3M vinyl squeegee to apply it
(you could also just use your fingers and it would work fine, I just happened to work at a sign shop at one point)
Finally, a razor to trim the edges.
About halfway done.. (if your wondering where the side bracket is, I never had it in the first place since I did the swap and never cared for it anyways lol)
Complete..
After installing it back on the car, I took the car to another friends house that was just about the same exact drive cycle: 30 mins of driving, getting on it, multiple stop lights.
The results? 118 degrees measured at the same exact spot of the inter cooler. Meaning an 18 degree drop.
Worth $15 bucks and 30 minutes of your time? To me yes, seeing how I want to keep my TMIC and I won't be boosting more than 10psi anyways. Your call, but I am very happy with the results
Possibly my lower intake manifold is next
So this is what I did...
I covered the bottom side of the intercooler and heat shield with some thermal reflective type stuff. I found and purchased a 24"24" sheet of this:http://www.designengineering.com/cat...s/reflect-cool
Along with an Infrared gun so I can measure the before and after (sorry I have no IAT readouts)
First, I drove the car about 30 minutes to my friend's house where I did the mod.. got on it a few times, sat at a few lights, got to his house and popped the hood, and used my Infrared gun to measure the temps right smack in the middle of the inter cooler.
Temps were 136 degrees.
I then proceeded with the mod, basically it was really simple:
I used a can of brake clean and cleaned the crap out of the inter cooler and heat shield to make sure the adhesive would stick.
I used a pair of scissors to cut out the Reflect-A-Cool into sections to make it easier to apply.
Used a 3M vinyl squeegee to apply it
(you could also just use your fingers and it would work fine, I just happened to work at a sign shop at one point)
Finally, a razor to trim the edges.
About halfway done.. (if your wondering where the side bracket is, I never had it in the first place since I did the swap and never cared for it anyways lol)
Complete..
After installing it back on the car, I took the car to another friends house that was just about the same exact drive cycle: 30 mins of driving, getting on it, multiple stop lights.
The results? 118 degrees measured at the same exact spot of the inter cooler. Meaning an 18 degree drop.
Worth $15 bucks and 30 minutes of your time? To me yes, seeing how I want to keep my TMIC and I won't be boosting more than 10psi anyways. Your call, but I am very happy with the results
Possibly my lower intake manifold is next
07-02-12, 08:16 PM
#7
I've seen a bunch of 3rd gen guys use this reflective heat tape/sticker on their intake manifolds, even fuel rails. Over the winter I was prepping for my spring/summer overhaul and figured: "why not? buy some, give me something to do, and slap it on my waiting manifold". So it's on my car now. I can't say I've logged anything or used a thermometer, but I can't see that it would not help. Many of us put heat wrap on the exhaust and we know that stuff works, this can't be that far off. 
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07-03-12, 11:48 AM
#11
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silly question from an na guy here. with the new heat shield in place, and adjusting the boost pressure. how much power are you putting down with the tmic? one of the reasons why i don't want to boost is, people say the tmic is only good for about 250rwhp. i wouldn't run a fmic, probably the same reasons why Funkjaw refuses to run one and vmount setups are expensive. so im curious on how much your getting out of it now that you were able to reduce heat soak? just curious sincing "if" i were to boost, i would prefer to run the tmic.
im building a bridgey na motor, in order to boost on that i would have to run a much larger turbocharger (hotside of .97 or bigger to not hurt the motor) at the same time, i would probably only run 10lbs or less boost (as a worse case scenerio in the future if i decide to change racing classes and go for more power, boost the high compression blah blah blah). i wonder if i could get away with using the stock tmic after heat shielded?
also, by what studies have shown, the hood scoop doesn't really cool the intercooler because of the high pressure area. has anyone thought of opening the scoop towards the windshield as a cowl induction setup, it's been proven over and over that its a low pressure area and should pull air under the hood to the tmic, any in put? just some thoughts and ideas i've been thinking about.
Funkjaw, thanks for taking the time to build a cheap and effective heat shield for the tmic and logging before and after temp numbers and sharing them with the community. great job!
as said previously, im an NA guy but still appreciate your R&D data
im building a bridgey na motor, in order to boost on that i would have to run a much larger turbocharger (hotside of .97 or bigger to not hurt the motor) at the same time, i would probably only run 10lbs or less boost (as a worse case scenerio in the future if i decide to change racing classes and go for more power, boost the high compression blah blah blah). i wonder if i could get away with using the stock tmic after heat shielded?
also, by what studies have shown, the hood scoop doesn't really cool the intercooler because of the high pressure area. has anyone thought of opening the scoop towards the windshield as a cowl induction setup, it's been proven over and over that its a low pressure area and should pull air under the hood to the tmic, any in put? just some thoughts and ideas i've been thinking about.
Funkjaw, thanks for taking the time to build a cheap and effective heat shield for the tmic and logging before and after temp numbers and sharing them with the community. great job!
as said previously, im an NA guy but still appreciate your R&D data
07-03-12, 01:39 PM
#12
silly question from an na guy here. with the new heat shield in place, and adjusting the boost pressure. how much power are you putting down with the tmic? one of the reasons why i don't want to boost is, people say the tmic is only good for about 250rwhp. i wouldn't run a fmic, probably the same reasons why Funkjaw refuses to run one and vmount setups are expensive. so im curious on how much your getting out of it now that you were able to reduce heat soak? just curious sincing "if" i were to boost, i would prefer to run the tmic.
im building a bridgey na motor, in order to boost on that i would have to run a much larger turbocharger (hotside of .97 or bigger to not hurt the motor) at the same time, i would probably only run 10lbs or less boost (as a worse case scenerio in the future if i decide to change racing classes and go for more power, boost the high compression blah blah blah). i wonder if i could get away with using the stock tmic after heat shielded?
also, by what studies have shown, the hood scoop doesn't really cool the intercooler because of the high pressure area. has anyone thought of opening the scoop towards the windshield as a cowl induction setup, it's been proven over and over that its a low pressure area and should pull air under the hood to the tmic, any in put? just some thoughts and ideas i've been thinking about.
Funkjaw, thanks for taking the time to build a cheap and effective heat shield for the tmic and logging before and after temp numbers and sharing them with the community. great job!
as said previously, im an NA guy but still appreciate your R&D data
im building a bridgey na motor, in order to boost on that i would have to run a much larger turbocharger (hotside of .97 or bigger to not hurt the motor) at the same time, i would probably only run 10lbs or less boost (as a worse case scenerio in the future if i decide to change racing classes and go for more power, boost the high compression blah blah blah). i wonder if i could get away with using the stock tmic after heat shielded?
also, by what studies have shown, the hood scoop doesn't really cool the intercooler because of the high pressure area. has anyone thought of opening the scoop towards the windshield as a cowl induction setup, it's been proven over and over that its a low pressure area and should pull air under the hood to the tmic, any in put? just some thoughts and ideas i've been thinking about.
Funkjaw, thanks for taking the time to build a cheap and effective heat shield for the tmic and logging before and after temp numbers and sharing them with the community. great job!
as said previously, im an NA guy but still appreciate your R&D data
07-03-12, 11:12 PM
#13
I plan on running the top mount with 350 whp. Auxiliary injection as well though. The link you provided was no good, any similar things I could find locally? My dad works hvac and has a silver foil tape used to make duct work air tight. Not sure if that would have similar properties or not.
07-04-12, 10:39 AM
#15
Anyways, good luck with your project!
07-05-12, 06:43 PM
#17
^I'd be more concerned about the restriction of running 350whp worth of air through the 2"(?) diameter intercooler piping.
Good job on the mod! Decent cost/benefit when aftermarket TMIC's are a few hundred and FMIC/VMIC's have their own issues.
Good job on the mod! Decent cost/benefit when aftermarket TMIC's are a few hundred and FMIC/VMIC's have their own issues.
07-06-12, 12:09 AM
#20
I'm currently datalogging enough airflow to be in the 300-315 whp range with a TMIC. It's on an extra rich tune (10.5-11.0 AFR), boost is only at 10 psi at redline, and the water injection is not yet set up, but it has not shown to be a significant airflow restriction. With a good 10 seconds at full throttle, IATs will climb 50-60F, but the 250 cc injector in the end tank will take care of that issue.
07-06-12, 10:33 AM
#22
I'm currently datalogging enough airflow to be in the 300-315 whp range with a TMIC. It's on an extra rich tune (10.5-11.0 AFR), boost is only at 10 psi at redline, and the water injection is not yet set up, but it has not shown to be a significant airflow restriction. With a good 10 seconds at full throttle, IATs will climb 50-60F, but the 250 cc injector in the end tank will take care of that issue.
Guess I need to go read more build threads. I'd be curious to compare post turbo, pre-intercooler air temps vs a stock turbo @ 12psi. But, if post-TMIC AIT's are held in check, I guess it doesn't really matter. 1 point for TMIC's!
07-06-12, 11:03 AM
#23
According to these calculations 2" piping will support 585cfm before becoming hindered...
intercooler piping size - Honda-Tech
which according to the supra guys is 40.43 lb/min.
Since a rotary engine requires 1.92cfm to generate 1 whp dividing 585cmf/1.92 = 305 whp
This is not to say that more air cannot flow through 2" piping, simply that doing so is inefficient as it will require greater and greater velocity, creating more heat and potentially creating less power despite higher boost levels.
Water injection will help deal with the heat, but its airflow that makes power and 2" piping is working against you beyond that level.
Even reworking in inlet and outlet of the tmic to just 2.25" would boost theoretical capacity to 740cfm / 1.92 = 385whp. Although none of this takes into account the limitations of the tmic core itself (iirc pressure drop of 1 psi even at stock boost of 6 psi
) Or the flow-hindering design of the outlet.
Food for thought.
you want to run the smallest possible without going over a certain air speed. 304 MPH or 0.4 mach is the point at which airflow meets increased resistance (drag) and flow losses are experienced.
Depending on which turbo your running and what hp your looking for will determine piping size. to small is a restriction and to larger is laggy. generally for the average setup 2.25-2.5" is what works
here is info i found on mach speeds of certain size piping relavent to cfm flow
2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach
Depending on which turbo your running and what hp your looking for will determine piping size. to small is a restriction and to larger is laggy. generally for the average setup 2.25-2.5" is what works
here is info i found on mach speeds of certain size piping relavent to cfm flow
2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach
which according to the supra guys is 40.43 lb/min.
Since a rotary engine requires 1.92cfm to generate 1 whp dividing 585cmf/1.92 = 305 whp
This is not to say that more air cannot flow through 2" piping, simply that doing so is inefficient as it will require greater and greater velocity, creating more heat and potentially creating less power despite higher boost levels.
Water injection will help deal with the heat, but its airflow that makes power and 2" piping is working against you beyond that level.
Even reworking in inlet and outlet of the tmic to just 2.25" would boost theoretical capacity to 740cfm / 1.92 = 385whp. Although none of this takes into account the limitations of the tmic core itself (iirc pressure drop of 1 psi even at stock boost of 6 psi
) Or the flow-hindering design of the outlet.Food for thought.
07-08-12, 10:58 PM
#25
I may have to try the stick-on heat shielding to see what the datalogs show. If I drive somewhere, and let the car sit, AFM and IAT temps will tend to be around 100F (on a 70-80F day). So everything under the hood heat soaks, and it takes awhile of driving before cruise temps return to closer to ambient.
Right at the back of the intercooler. It's in the end tank about 6 inches from the outlet. The location should allow a little time for the water to vaporize before reaching the IAT sensor.
I expect to see the IATs drop a good bit, but most of the water will not vaporize until it gets past the intake ports. If I end up using 50/50 water/meth with a larger injector, more of it will vaporize sooner, which should generate lower IAT numbers from the sensor.
There are some claims of 400+ whp on cars with TMICs and AI.
This thread mentions BDC making 440whp with that setup: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...cooler-624172/
There was another vendor that mentioned a customer making 400whp on a T04E TMIC setup with a lot of methanol. I can't remember the name at the moment.
I don't doubt that it'll become a restriction at some point, and that the pressure drop probably gets fairly large at high boost levels, but it's been so-far-so-good with 25% more airflow than my stock turbo produced (the stocker made 12 psi tapering to about 8 psi by redline). I do wonder how it will behave once I up the boost to 1 bar. I'll share the info I find.
Since I have to pass smog every 2 years, any custom intercooler setup wouldn't be CARB legal, so it would run the risk of the tech failing the car during the visual inspection. I'd have to buy an overpriced name-brand FMIC kit to get a CARB sticker. No thanks.
There's always the option of using no intercooler at all, and just a whole lot of 50/50 water/meth. But if you do that, you'd better get a nice progressive controller with built-in fail safes (aquamist). Bad things can happen when AI systems fail.
Originally Posted by driftxsequence
Where exactly are you placing the water injection?
This thread mentions BDC making 440whp with that setup: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...cooler-624172/
There was another vendor that mentioned a customer making 400whp on a T04E TMIC setup with a lot of methanol. I can't remember the name at the moment.
I don't doubt that it'll become a restriction at some point, and that the pressure drop probably gets fairly large at high boost levels, but it's been so-far-so-good with 25% more airflow than my stock turbo produced (the stocker made 12 psi tapering to about 8 psi by redline). I do wonder how it will behave once I up the boost to 1 bar. I'll share the info I find.
Since I have to pass smog every 2 years, any custom intercooler setup wouldn't be CARB legal, so it would run the risk of the tech failing the car during the visual inspection. I'd have to buy an overpriced name-brand FMIC kit to get a CARB sticker. No thanks.
There's always the option of using no intercooler at all, and just a whole lot of 50/50 water/meth. But if you do that, you'd better get a nice progressive controller with built-in fail safes (aquamist). Bad things can happen when AI systems fail.
Last edited by RotaryRocket88; 07-08-12 at 11:02 PM.