GTU_FAN

Well, ever since I installed a TII tranny in my GTU its been a world of difference. The shift feel and precision is worlds-better. But it isn't entirely without complaint.

I bought my TII tranny used from another forum member who also helped me install it. (Mileage and year questionable) In addition we installed an ACT HD pressure plate, Street/Strip clutch, Prolight flywheel, stainless clutch line and brand new tokico clutch hydraulics along with it. We put in redline synthetic fluid as well.

Now immediately after we put power through it in neutral it made noise with the clutch pedal depressed. The pilot bearing and throw out bearing were brand new packed w/red line synthetic grease. I assumed it was either a bad tranny bearing, or the pilot bearing was misalligned or damaged during the install.

Well that was 6 months ago and 5 thousand miles. The noise in neutral isn't quite as bad anymore. But since I have started taking transmissions in the auto program at my college I've had a chance to use our computer database to look up Technical Service Bulletins... and I have found a few of note about the trannies. (I realize others have posted about TSB's I have searched about it)

First of all the early S4 TII trannies produced before april of 87 had a friction gear issue. "The friction gear under the diaphragm spring have been discontinued to reduce the noise from the countershaft. This noise is similar to a faulty bearing and occurs only in neutral with the clutch engaged."

This explains my noise issue and seems likely since I wouldn't think a brand new fully greased pilot bearing would make noise right away whereas a used tranny w/lots of miles would.

Second, this tranny always leaks fluid out of the shifter! Granted its an aftermarket short-throw shifter, but I installed brand new shifter-bushings and seals from mazdatrix along with it and tripple-checked the fluid level. So far nothing works... well so happens there is a TSB about this too... "On some vehicles oil may seep out of the shift lever, but it may not be visable because the shfiter lever dust boot covers it. You can detect this condition if the vehicles cabin smells like oil." ...It then describes a procedure to remove the extension housing and control rod and modify the oil seal lip to prevent this. (sorry dont have a scanner or I'd upload all the figs)

There was another bulletin about grinding in 2nd gear after a cold start... but that isn't anything unusual. Trannies grind more when they are cold period... so no biggie.

In another bulletin they recommend using modified "hub assembly" and "synchronizer rings" to improve shift quality because of hard shifting after cold weather starts.

So yeah... basically in a nutshell I have all of the typical faults of a TII tranny. I am glad I found these TSB's because otherwise I wouldn't have known they were typical faults. I'm not sure if I should be happy there are typical faults like this... I really dont know how reliable these trannies are compared to other manufacturers... but I gather they are very strong and overbuilt and it does have great shift-action so I can live with it.

What I would like to know since I have no way of finding the VIN of the original vehicle are there ways of identifying the exact year of the tranny? And would my lightweight flyhweel make any unusual noise?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First let me start by saying if the pedal is depressed, the clutch is not engaged, so the transmission isn't turning, so the noise cannot be the trans. Start down very slowly with the pedal to see when the noise starts. If it starts after about 1", it's the throwout bearing, but if it starts near the floor, it's the pilot bearing.

I purchased my '89 TII new and as far as the trans is concerned, I had Mazda rebuild it under an extended warranty at 88,000 miles, syncros. I had KD do a rebuild once again at 155,000 when I had the new engine installed. At this time it needed syncros and the front bearing. I've installed one set of shifter bushings and it has always shifted perfectly, unless it's extremely cold. Haven't had it out when the temps have been under 40 degrees in the last 15 years so it hasn't been a problem. No other leaks at all.

As far as year, I assume you would be able to tell whether a S4 or S5 depending on the crossmember, but wouldn't know how to pinpoint the exact year.

GTU_FAN

If what your saying is true then the TSB I quoted must obviously be completely wrong? The tranny didn't come with a crossmember and I installed it with a brand new one from mazdatrix...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

did you use the TII slave cylinder? not sure of the difference between the n/a and TII slaves but it may be over extending the arm and forcing the pressure plate into the disc.

the only complaint i have had with my tranny is the noise it makes, after 190k miles and plenty of abuse and now 300+RWHP it tends to be a bit noisey but still holding together just fine. i have none of the other issues described.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Quoted from the rotary resurrection site:

SLAVE CYLINDERS:
••

Turbo and nonturbo slave cylinders are different. The mounting points were changed due to bellhousing differences. They can not be swapped.
••

IF you are in a big bind and need a turbo cylinder, you can modify a nonturbo cylinder to work, by cutting about 3/8” to ¼” off the rod length on the INSIDE end, and then grinding it in a half-sphere so it fits properly inside the slave. Pedal adjustment may be required.
••
Cylinder strength, length, and bore are the same. Just the position of the mounting feet.

That makes it look like the non turbo slave arm is longer, as karak guessed.

iceblue

Where did you get these TSB releases from?

You know a TSB is wrote from a mechanic in the shop that thinks they found something and a solution. I know my dads wrote meany of them, so there is always a chance they are wrong, wether they are or not dont always take them as bible.

Your noise could also be a worn input shaft, did you inspect it befor installing the tranny? Do you know what to look for? It could be what the TSB release is but you dont even know the year of the tranny. Also what Turbonut wrote is valid information and correct.

GTU_FAN

I used a brand new turbo II slave cylinder. I got the TSB's off of All Data and Mitchel. All the TSB's I quoted involved new parts from Mazda or procedures to modify existing parts from Mazda. If Mazda took the time and extra cost to do that it dosen't seem like pointless complaining to me.

RETed

I think the turbo trans was just in better condition than your original non-turbo trans.
In general, the turbo trans would hold up better due to it's stronger internals.
A non-turbo trans (of approximately the same amount of mileage and age) would wear more due to it's weaker components.


Interesting...
I assume the "April of 87" is the build date of the vehicle?


This doesn't surprise me.
I have never seen an original, off-the-factory-floor FC turbo with fluid (filled) in the shifter extension housing.
I have never done it to my FC's, and I have never had this problem.
I've only filled the front two sections, and this seems to work fine.


Not surprising...
This is an inherent "design flaw" of the transmission.
The space between the 1st and 2nd gears is very wide.
Anyone who tries to shift into 2nd at redline will be rewarded with a grind.
This is something that you really can't do anything about expect baby the 2nd gear shift.


I assume these are modified parts that would be sold if you ask for parts to rebuild the transmission...?


Next to impossible...
I don't think the transmissions have any kind of (numerical) identification marks on them.

Lightened flywheel should not be making noise unless it's loose or wrong (rear) counterweight.


-Ted

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

So that's the case of that.

sintri

quick question, while in neutral is it natural to have a light swishing pulsing sound coming from the tranny, doesn't happen with the clutch in, seems to dissapate after startup I think, can't remember.

didn't know you came in here too eatmyclutch

GTU_FAN

So let me get this strait... there is no way a synchronizer ring can make noise with the clutch depressed as they describe... and the reason the tranny leaks fluid is because you aren't supposed to put fluid in the extension housing of an TII tranny? Is the shifter not supposed to be lubricated?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

from the factory they didnt put lube in the shifter but i do, i have never seen the oil seep up and out f the shifter either.

in all of the TIIs i have driven none made a noise like what you describe, don't pay attention to many of the TSBs, sometimes i also think it is just some dorky mechanic making **** up and Mazda or Alldata bought it and listed it.

GTU_FAN

thanks karack

Hambino60

question question question< i've got an s5 turbo II. the tranny is going alittle weird on me> iM fine through 1st and 2nd but if i'm mashing and shifting into 3rd i have a really hard time getting it in smoothy. It grinds like a **** and i really have to shift if slow in order for it to not grind as bad . All the other gears are cool as hell.. anyone have a quick aswer for this. Is it common?

sintri

bad synchro's maybe? I have no clue, my third's a bit clunky too, won't grind but there's some a bit of a stop going in, though sometimes it clears up.

idsigloo

I'm using an unmodified nonturbo slave cylinder and I'm not aware of any potential problems.

iceblue

The syncro gear is taperd against the gear with the shift fork on the other side. When you slide the shifter into a gear the taper is pushed up against the gear IE the syncro this slows the gear down and alows the shift fork rig to be pushed into place locking it into gear. When you go into the next gear the revers happens and then the process is repeated against the next gear chosen. The input shaft going through the tranny is not spinning with the clutch depressed so the syncros would not be spinnin nor would anything inside the transmition.

iceblue

just to help you out a non turbo slave cylinder will not work on a tii tranny without modifying noe will a tii slave work on a NA.

RETed

Nope, unless the synchros came loose, in which case, you'd have other larger problems than just harmless noise.

From the factory they have no fluid.
I believe the Mazda FSM actually shows pics of having it filled.
All of the FC's I've worked on that have filled the extension housing ended up leaking all over the shifter lever / shifter boot.


-Ted

idsigloo

Just so you know, I'm using the same slave cylinder that was on my NA. I have not modified it at all. I would have to agree that the push rod is too long, but it seems to work just fine. Clutch pedal feels good as well. Is there a part number printed on the slave cylinder somewhere?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

No, but you should really have the proper slave on there.

I don't know why people never believe this??

Heres a comparison shot.

iceblue

You eaither do not have a TII transmition or always had one and are runing the proper slave. IT WILL NOT FIT if it is the wrong one you can not physicly make it go in.

idsigloo

I'll check it out. But I was driving my GXL when it was NA with this then I reused the same slave when I did the drivetrain swap.

GTU_FAN

Argh... update... my shifter froze-up this morning in neutral after I started up the car. I had to turn it off... push the shifter into 1st. Hold the clutch in and then start it. I heard and felt a clunk... but now its back-to-normal-smooth.