Thinking N/A SP 4-port...
10-14-03, 03:43 PM
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Thinking N/A SP 4-port...
Well... with the new information presented to me about the Aux-Bridge; I'm contimplating an N/A 4-port. S5 rotating assembly, MegaSquirt for fuel, 12A Dizzy for spark, full header-back exhaust. I want to keep it very streetable (this will be my daily driver) but also, I want 200+ HP.
The question at this point is... what intake manifold should I use?? I've seen modded 6-port manifolds... but that's kindof... eh'. But the 4-port manifolds are pointing the wrong direction.
Also; what kind of porting to do? I'll at least put a large streetport on it... but, what about a half-bridge?
Let me know what you guys think.
The question at this point is... what intake manifold should I use?? I've seen modded 6-port manifolds... but that's kindof... eh'. But the 4-port manifolds are pointing the wrong direction.
Also; what kind of porting to do? I'll at least put a large streetport on it... but, what about a half-bridge?
Let me know what you guys think.
10-14-03, 06:40 PM
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Hey Liquid, I know this sounds like a broken record, but you should try and IDA manifold with 50mm throttle bodies. IDA's are probably the shortest manifolds that you would want to run on the street. And for TB's, there are quite a few different manufactures out there today.
10-14-03, 08:10 PM
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Yeah, I know that, I just can't afford one right away. I plan on using a stock TII, or a Modded N/A manifold... I just don't know which one yet.
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10-15-03, 03:06 AM
#8
I wish I was driving!
Re: Thinking N/A SP 4-port...
Originally posted by Liquid Anarchy
The question at this point is... what intake manifold should I use?? I've seen modded 6-port manifolds... but that's kindof... eh'. But the 4-port manifolds are pointing the wrong direction.
Also; what kind of porting to do? I'll at least put a large streetport on it... but, what about a half-bridge?
The question at this point is... what intake manifold should I use?? I've seen modded 6-port manifolds... but that's kindof... eh'. But the 4-port manifolds are pointing the wrong direction.
Also; what kind of porting to do? I'll at least put a large streetport on it... but, what about a half-bridge?
Works for me.
I'd try a small half-bridge, and make the bridge fairly wide. That should meet your goals.
10-15-03, 03:10 AM
#9
I wish I was driving!
Hmm... Or use an S5 TII LIM connected to an FD UIM with a FD Greddy elbow, CAI as described above, half bridge. I haven't yet experimented with the renesis rotors, but they seem affordable at $700 for a pair, brand new, if they work.
10-15-03, 05:56 AM
#10
Re: Re: Thinking N/A SP 4-port...
Originally posted by scathcart
Why does it matter which way the UIM points? You could route on of the upcoming RETed elbows to run into a CAI following the same route as the Greddy Intercooler kit, with the piping running along the left side of the car and the filter being located in the drivers side of the front bumper. Afterall, you have no AFM.
Works for me.
I'd try a small half-bridge, and make the bridge fairly wide. That should meet your goals.
Why does it matter which way the UIM points? You could route on of the upcoming RETed elbows to run into a CAI following the same route as the Greddy Intercooler kit, with the piping running along the left side of the car and the filter being located in the drivers side of the front bumper. Afterall, you have no AFM.
Works for me.
I'd try a small half-bridge, and make the bridge fairly wide. That should meet your goals.
10-15-03, 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by scathcart
Hmm... Or use an S5 TII LIM connected to an FD UIM with a FD Greddy elbow, CAI as described above, half bridge. I haven't yet experimented with the renesis rotors, but they seem affordable at $700 for a pair, brand new, if they work.
Hmm... Or use an S5 TII LIM connected to an FD UIM with a FD Greddy elbow, CAI as described above, half bridge. I haven't yet experimented with the renesis rotors, but they seem affordable at $700 for a pair, brand new, if they work.
Remember Liquid you'll get to a point where 200whp isn't enough and you'll wish you'd started out turbo.
At least with a 4 port bridge of some sort and a standalone, put just a bit of boost to it and that extra power won't be hard to come by.
Is it known whether the renesis rotors have the same balance as S5/S6/S7? Or would you have to pop $700+something else for balance?
R
Last edited by faster7; 10-15-03 at 07:52 AM.
10-15-03, 09:43 AM
#13
mad scientist
Why do people here seem to think the 4 port motors are the only ones that can make decent power? A 6 port motor has more port timing and area than any 4 port could hope for without the port beign backfilled with epoxy.
10-15-03, 11:22 AM
#14
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
Why do people here seem to think the 4 port motors are the only ones that can make decent power? A 6 port motor has more port timing and area than any 4 port could hope for without the port beign backfilled with epoxy.
Why do people here seem to think the 4 port motors are the only ones that can make decent power? A 6 port motor has more port timing and area than any 4 port could hope for without the port beign backfilled with epoxy.
10-15-03, 12:05 PM
#15
mad scientist
But thats assuming that the ports themselves are the problem. That is also assuming that everything else being equal. I totally disagree, and I expect to change the way people see 6 ports. I see a long list of problems with the vast majority of n/a's running around. There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see. But right now, myself, and the 2 people im specifically referring to are breaking in our motors. I could argue on for hours with theories backing my point of view, but I see no point. Proof is what matters here, instead of physics and conjecture.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
10-15-03, 12:18 PM
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Anarchy - Why the 12A dizzy for spark?
renns has developed a way to mainain the stock ECU only for spark use, and the MS unit takes over everything else functioning essentially as the main ECU.
This is how I will be setting up my GXL over the winter.. MS unit, but no dizzy, just retaining stock ECU for spark.
If you already know about that, then I am curious as to why you chose the dizzy over this method. Pro's? Con's?
renns has developed a way to mainain the stock ECU only for spark use, and the MS unit takes over everything else functioning essentially as the main ECU.
This is how I will be setting up my GXL over the winter.. MS unit, but no dizzy, just retaining stock ECU for spark.
If you already know about that, then I am curious as to why you chose the dizzy over this method. Pro's? Con's?
10-15-03, 02:17 PM
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Black, did he make a set-up for a S5 or S4, cuz I think it would be a little bit harder to do that type of a set-up with a S5 ECU, since liquid will probably be removing a lot of the ECU controlled stuff.
And going with what MS7 said, I had been talking with Dana (Rotary Racer, I think) about doing a 4 port N/A. After talking about this for a week or so, I talked to Rob Golden. He said that would be a bad idea, since the 6 port can flow MORE air for a N/A.
Just something to think about.
And going with what MS7 said, I had been talking with Dana (Rotary Racer, I think) about doing a 4 port N/A. After talking about this for a week or so, I talked to Rob Golden. He said that would be a bad idea, since the 6 port can flow MORE air for a N/A.
Just something to think about.
Last edited by j200pruf; 10-15-03 at 02:23 PM.
10-15-03, 03:35 PM
#18
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
But thats assuming that the ports themselves are the problem. That is also assuming that everything else being equal. I totally disagree, and I expect to change the way people see 6 ports. I see a long list of problems with the vast majority of n/a's running around. There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see. But right now, myself, and the 2 people im specifically referring to are breaking in our motors. I could argue on for hours with theories backing my point of view, but I see no point. Proof is what matters here, instead of physics and conjecture.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
But thats assuming that the ports themselves are the problem. That is also assuming that everything else being equal. I totally disagree, and I expect to change the way people see 6 ports. I see a long list of problems with the vast majority of n/a's running around. There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see. But right now, myself, and the 2 people im specifically referring to are breaking in our motors. I could argue on for hours with theories backing my point of view, but I see no point. Proof is what matters here, instead of physics and conjecture.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
Really, if you want to prove your point, you need to do so first before making claims. Your credibility on this forum has been questioned before when you made claims that your car was "in the 13's", and that you were "going to the dyno next week" (seemingly every week), but never produced a dyno graph or a timeslip. You can't claim numbers, especially in cases of such huge controversy, without having any proof to back it up, just as the situation is here.
10-15-03, 03:40 PM
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J200; right on the money. To piggyback the S5, you'd need to keep a lot of sensors, or the car will go into limp-mode.
MS7; You have made the connection... maybe there's more to HP than timing... flow probably plays into it quite a bit (see the SP vs. Aux-Bridge thread)
Russell; Don't call me Liquid.
Anyone; Know someone w/ a Half-Bridged 4-Port N/A??
MS7; You have made the connection... maybe there's more to HP than timing... flow probably plays into it quite a bit (see the SP vs. Aux-Bridge thread)
Russell; Don't call me Liquid.
Anyone; Know someone w/ a Half-Bridged 4-Port N/A??
10-15-03, 03:47 PM
#20
mad scientist
Originally posted by scathcart
Really, if you want to prove your point, you need to do so first before making claims. Your credibility on this forum has been questioned before when you made claims that your car was "in the 13's", and that you were "going to the dyno next week" (seemingly every week), but never produced a dyno graph or a timeslip. You can't claim numbers, especially in cases of such huge controversy, without having any proof to back it up, just as the situation is here.
Really, if you want to prove your point, you need to do so first before making claims. Your credibility on this forum has been questioned before when you made claims that your car was "in the 13's", and that you were "going to the dyno next week" (seemingly every week), but never produced a dyno graph or a timeslip. You can't claim numbers, especially in cases of such huge controversy, without having any proof to back it up, just as the situation is here.
10-15-03, 03:52 PM
#21
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
But thats assuming that the ports themselves are the problem. That is also assuming that everything else being equal. I totally disagree, and I expect to change the way people see 6 ports. I see a long list of problems with the vast majority of n/a's running around. There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see. But right now, myself, and the 2 people im specifically referring to are breaking in our motors. I could argue on for hours with theories backing my point of view, but I see no point. Proof is what matters here, instead of physics and conjecture.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
But thats assuming that the ports themselves are the problem. That is also assuming that everything else being equal. I totally disagree, and I expect to change the way people see 6 ports. I see a long list of problems with the vast majority of n/a's running around. There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see. But right now, myself, and the 2 people im specifically referring to are breaking in our motors. I could argue on for hours with theories backing my point of view, but I see no point. Proof is what matters here, instead of physics and conjecture.
But like I said, there are just too many variables to say 6 ports are inferior to 4 ports, based on the hp people have gotten out of them in the past.
10-15-03, 04:11 PM
#22
mad scientist
Originally posted by KNONFS
I like your point of view, and will wait for the numbers. I really hope you prove us wrong, but till then I will stick with what I've seen
I like your point of view, and will wait for the numbers. I really hope you prove us wrong, but till then I will stick with what I've seen
10-15-03, 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Liquid Anarchy
J200; right on the money. To piggyback the S5, you'd need to keep a lot of sensors, or the car will go into limp-mode.
J200; right on the money. To piggyback the S5, you'd need to keep a lot of sensors, or the car will go into limp-mode.
Considering the MS unit is running the engine anyways, is there no possible way to swap out an S5 ECU setup with the MS/S4 combination? What would it really take, considering the MS unit is pretty much tying up all the loose ends? (Or perhaps am I not looking at it from the right point of view)?
10-15-03, 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see.
There are a few people aside from myself that are building n/a's that bypass the problems I see.
. . . meaning the split in the secondary runner for the aux'es? Or just the general suckiness of the stock NA manifolds?
10-15-03, 11:08 PM
#25
mad scientist
Originally posted by 88IntegraLS
. . . meaning the split in the secondary runner for the aux'es? Or just the general suckiness of the stock NA manifolds?
. . . meaning the split in the secondary runner for the aux'es? Or just the general suckiness of the stock NA manifolds?
btw, when are you going to get AIM?