Therx7ist

lets take turns running over each other's heads. You go first.

KiyoKix

I'm dumbfounded that some people really don't know jackshit about cars. Power to weight ratios don't mean much...you still have tire size (yes...stock cars DO come with tire sizes remember?), gear ratio (holy crap...they come with those too!), aero numbers (yet another thing that is NOT a factory option), weight distribution (man, I'm on a roll!), power delivery (that's right boys and girls...cars run at more than ONE rpm...so 250@6000 is just that, what about the rest of the time? .

I won't bother to go on, everyone knows (well except for those who for some reason refuse to believe it) that the N/A Supra is slower than the N/A FC despite the power difference (hell, the new RSX Type S only runs a 15.9...how far off of the FC time is that...but it must be much faster than an 18 year old car right???). Do some research, open your mind, do whatever but don't make things facts if you only know 1 factor/rule of the game.

BTW...yes the K-car can lose (driver...but this thread isn't about that), what happens when you give the GXL 414 RWHP...I wonder. All the power in the world won't make you handle any better...there is more than one aspect to a vehicle (isn't that why you guys are in the 7 club anyway???). Peak power means nothing if it doesn't have backup...

bingoboy

uh dude...you got that backwards...you usually want to go first in that type of thing. kinda like the ole' lets take turns kicking each other in the nuts, first one to fall down loses. see you want to kick first....

KiyoKix

Oh yea, you should also watch the review of the FC by Top Gear...these aren't event the best numbers for the FC and they were stride for stride with the beloved Porsche 924S...Badges are also meaningless they just let you know who made the car, not how good it is.

bingoboy

where would one find that Kiyokix?

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

are you trying to say that because a supra makes 230HP and 250 TQ that it's peaky? because that doesn't make much sense to me.

don't get me wrong, I LOVE my TII, But I'd think twice before racing a supra turbo. TII's (stock) can't launch for ****. Turbo supras CAN. Turbo supras have TORQUE, because they have an inline six. Rx7s, well.. do not. Yes, supras are porky, but rx-7s aren't exactly featherweighs, and as I've allready proved, it doesn't matter.

And a regular, fully optioned TII isn't going to be more than ten or fifteen pounds lighter than my car, Turbo rx-7s are Just That Heavy. Go weigh yours, full of gas, oil, washer fluid, spar tire, EVERYTHING. see how much it weighs. If you have a turbo with a/c, I bet it won't be under 2850.

Wheel sizes, final drives, ETC, don't matter for ****, stock vs stock, because most cars are reasonably alike. Especially supras vs. rx7s, because they're rather similar.


I've got a pic of a K-car that would make you wonder about the weight distribution.. I'd say they're probably pretty decent for drag racing. Anyone know the one I'm talking about? with the two jackstands just behind the front wheels and the car resting on the front wheels, the back end 6' in the air?


As I've said before, I'd rather have my rx-7, but that's just because I like to go around corners too.. and that's one area where a stock supra simply can't keep up.

ERAUMAZDA

why doesn't some one pull up the mkiii 1/4 time geeeez

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

because it doesn't matter

if the MKIII runs 13.0 and the TII runs 19.6, the TII still must be faster because it's an RX-7, right?

Cory Simpson

WRONG!!! They do have torque, but that has nothing to do with why they launch fast. Have you ever wridden in a Supra (tubo or NA) well I have, and let me tell you, the first gear is a stump puller. It takes a low gear to get all that weight moving.




Your full of it, your going to sit here and tell me that a two cars that are exactly the same execpt on has 22 in rims and the other has 14 inch rims. And your going to say that they will both be exactly the same in every way, well no they wouldn't, the one with bigger tires would have a higher to speed and a lower 0-60. And the other way around for the car with the 14's.




Wrong again, your "calculations" didn't prove anything!

My moms Honda Accord pulled away from my brothers supra, and they were both going about 40 running side by side.




Proving you have never wridden in a Supra again huh. An MKIII would give an RX-7 a run for it's money in a corner. Especially with a driver that knows how to handle the car. They handle awsome for a 3600 lb car.

ERAUMAZDA

where the the **** did you get 19.6 1/4 mile time. Yu are a retard...yes indeed

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I beleive it was sarcasm.

ERAUMAZDA

I know, but gay

casio

haha, obviously it doesn't. Peak is its TOP hp/torque. he's saying that you cant compare top output numbers. its why people look at dyno sheets. if youre car isnt makeing any power til over 6grand (say 100whp), then skyrockets to 800whp and then falls off at 7500, does that make your car fast? nope, just has good horsepower for about 1500 rpm. the rest of the time its like having a honda engine in a heavier car.
not to mention that how "fast" a car feels isnt always relevant. you can have a certain power rating, but it may feel faster or slower than another car with more or less. point is, you don't feel horsepower, you feel torque. ever been in a diesel? puts you in your seat, but is like a Ford. makes a lot of noise, but doesn't go anywhere (actually, diesels do kinda haul ***). some of you are making good arguements that actually make ya think, others are scratching the skin off their scalp.
ALSO, most of you are arguing the feel of cars by todays standards. i thought the question was asking "new."

genII Drifter

I'm late, I have a sword too. a couple of them, and I would smoke a mkIII in a road race.

gsracer

N/A mkIV manual supras pull low 15's bone stock. That's t2 territory. I have never seen a bone stock FC eek into the 15's. I'm sure some manage to do so, but a stock n/a fc against a n/a mkiv supra is going to get drug, bad.

I've seen in person RSX type S' click off 14.7 and 14.8's. If they aren't in the 14's they are very low 15's.

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

According to car stats (no proof)

1989 Mazda RX-7 Turbo 6.7 15.1
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo 6.6 15.2

1991 Toyota Supra Turbo 7.1 15.6
1991 Mazda RX-7 Infini IV 7.0 14.9
1990 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 6.3 14.9

Someone break out their old issues of car and driver and list off some actual proven numbers.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

Whoever was saying that I've never ridden in a supra before... whatever. How the hell would you know? And if you think they handle... well, you've never been in a car that handles. I've been around corners in my TII and not had passangers notice that would be downright SCARY in a supra. I'd take on any stock MKIII supra on a road course, and I dont think there would be much difficulty in keeping it behind me, as long as it was twisty enough. IN short, MKIII supras do NOT handle well, and 3500LB is not helping things.

All I know is someone said that a TII would kick a supra turbo's *** in a straight line, and MATH says that it won't.

N/A supras are reasonably quick too, and N/A rx-7s are.. well, not. Period.


I haven't had the oppourtunity to race one yet,

And if the PEAK torque is 250 at 2500 RPM, and the PEAK HP is at 6000 RPM, wouldn't it be logical that there would be torque up there too? I mean really, think, people. Cars don't magically stop making torque for 3000 RPM and then magically start back up again. It just doesn't make sense.


And since when are rx-7 wheels 14" (turbo) and supra wheels 20" ? We're comparing stock vs stock here, and, as I said, it doesn't really affect things.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Man, what is with you kids..

What part of "think logically" didnt you understand?



all the drag racers do this i guess then eh? or at least anyone willing to invest all this money into 414 RWHP would be such an IDIOT to race with this CRAP.

Assumptions are bad, but that's not even a rationalized assumption!

More Idiotic things ALL the top dragsters overlook, right?



Again with the things no person in the right mind would have as a modification to a car.

Factory, all cars are usually close range with weights and ratios.. nothing too drastically different.. and you seem to CLEARLY overlook the fact that a mod is usually to make the car BETTER not worse.

I understand your 'point', but.. "THINK LOGICALLY"

Life isnt a video game where you can change the car settings to something totally rediculous and illogical for free.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Hop in a 14.9L CAT Turbo Diesel in a extremely heavy Western Star truck w/ bunk and all the heavy goodies.

475 hp
1875 ft/lbs torque
18 speed tranny

from a dead stop, jam it in 5th or 6th, dump clutch without even revving the engine.

it wont stall, and it will throw your head back hard enough for it to hurt.

research before you speak.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

!

You have restored my faith in the force, young jedi.

at least SOMEONE here is smart.



and yeah, ever done that? my mom's boyfriend is a truck driver.. its like 10 ? speedss.. floor it and dump the clutch in 5th and you get a huge smokeshow... its sooo cool

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

i can do that in our shunt truck at work.. its just a ford 2 stroke diesel, still has a buttload of torque, but nothing like our heavy hauler trucks.

ive done that in the winter.. 5th gear, rev up, dump it, you shoulda seen the height of the rooster tails of snow flying in the air..

most trucks come in 10s or 18s. Anything that's hauling some serious *** has an 18.

BDoty311

Im sorry, I forgot that comparing a 414hp K-car against a 150hp rx-7 was " logical"

He took the idea to the extreme, and so did I.

I wasnt talking about the Supra when I brought up being "peaky", I was pointing out that comparing peak power/weight ratio isnt an all incompassing statistic.

Lets say you have a car with 250hp & 150 ft-lbs that weighed 3000lbs.

Then the same car with 250hp & 300 ft-lbs that weighed 3000lbs. Which one would win in a drag race? But they have the same hp/lb ratio.

Mark'sMazda

http://www.car-stats.com/stats/search/choosemake.aspx

there are hard numbers, end of story.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Using your "logic", I described a situation. A 414 RWHP k car losing to my rx7 in 1/4 mile. Clearly this is Illogical, as you just sarcastically mentioned.

But, considering I used your (now deemed 'Illogical') Logic to make that comparison, I'm afraid that I have come out on top. Or should I say to the left? Right? Is that logical?

I guess you didn't understand the whole time I've been trying to point out that my "Illogical" my comparison is on the same playing feild as your take on the topic.

BDoty311

What Ive been trying to point out this whole time is that power/weight ratios ISNT EVERYTHING, and that there are other factors involved. Thats it.

With two cars with similar power/weight ratios, you have to consider other factors into the equation.

You can keep jabbering on about "logical" talk all day, but I believe I proved my point.