Testimonial for RA 3mm seals
04-06-05, 12:34 PM
#3
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
But I want to see the condition of the housings after 50k miles when driven by a teenager.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
04-06-05, 12:45 PM
#4
This dude is in his late 30's or so, but drives like a teenager, trust me. And he didn't "intend" to tear it down, he "had" to, because the break in the dowelpin spews pressurized oil out like mad, making the car undriveable (1 quart per 20 seconds).
04-06-05, 12:50 PM
#5
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by Icemark
But I want to see the condition of the housings after 50k miles when driven by a teenager.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
The magic question about these seals, I believe, is this: Were these seals and springs' pairs ever tested on long-term, practical applications prior to being marketted for public sale and use?
B
04-06-05, 12:51 PM
#6
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
This dude is in his late 30's or so, but drives like a teenager, trust me. And he didn't "intend" to tear it down, he "had" to, because the break in the dowelpin spews pressurized oil out like mad, making the car undriveable (1 quart per 20 seconds).
04-06-05, 12:54 PM
#7
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
This dude is in his late 30's or so, but drives like a teenager, trust me. And he didn't "intend" to tear it down, he "had" to, because the break in the dowelpin spews pressurized oil out like mad, making the car undriveable (1 quart per 20 seconds).
That's caused from severe engine knock and the forces of deflection of the rotor housing against the irons laterally. Not to detract away from the topic of the RA seals, I don't believe the strength of the block is an issue here. I personally ran a 420rwhp setup on pump gas at roughly 1 bar of boost for a few years starting about 5 years ago. It was an S4 block without any additional dowel pinning. The thing is, and I'm sure others will respond to this, is the issue of staving off and preventing this severe engine knock from happening in the first place. It's not detonation; it's more than likely pre-ignition of the mixture from having intake air and oil temps too hot, not to mention having spark firing too early.
I also setup another S4 block about a year and a half ago that broke the exact same way you described (and ran through oil the same way, too). Rebuilt it, fixed the original problem, and whammo -> dyno'd 447rwhp with a half-bridgeport at 1bar of boost on a T66. No broken bones and it's holding up just fine.
B
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04-06-05, 01:31 PM
#8
Originally Posted by BDC
Those are the results I'm waiting to hear about, as well. I checked out Rotary Aviation's website and they recently did some changes to the Apex seal page showing various drag cars that run their seals. This leads me to believe that the seals may hold up under short bursts of heavy loads, but as Icemark commented, it lends no credibility to the issues of whether or not they hold up for a few years of daily abuse. It also doesn't give any bones about the condition of rotor housings after long-term usage.
The magic question about these seals, I believe, is this: Were these seals and springs' pairs ever tested on long-term, practical applications prior to being marketted for public sale and use?
B
The magic question about these seals, I believe, is this: Were these seals and springs' pairs ever tested on long-term, practical applications prior to being marketted for public sale and use?
B
I thought you were using those seals on some of your clients
04-06-05, 01:50 PM
#9
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by KNONFS
B,
I thought you were using those seals on some of your clients
I thought you were using those seals on some of your clients
B
04-06-05, 01:52 PM
#10
wtf's a piston
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Originally Posted by Icemark
But I want to see the condition of the housings after 50k miles when driven by a teenager.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
Drag racing is one thing. Common there for the owner to pull things apart and check and replace every little possible thing at the end of a weekend.
But abused, overused and the general lack of maintence that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving) would be a better example for me.
04-06-05, 01:54 PM
#11
Originally Posted by BDC
I do, Knonfs. I let customers know fully ahead of time the issues present with them and leave the decision up to them (I don't force-feed what parts they use as I leave it up to an individual basis). I also use the 3mm's in my own engine. So far, so good. My only complaint has been the long break-in time with them as well as the seemingly low cold compression.
B
B
04-06-05, 06:37 PM
#12
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by gerbraldy
There is no point in having a fast car though if you do not drive it like it was meant to. I'm not saying beat the crap out of it, just let it loose every once in a blue moon. You should say "most" teenagers not all, some of us actually have common sense. I'm 19 and I drive like a grandma 95%, the other 5% is drivin like an oldman. I'm under my hood at least once a day checking everything. The other rx7 "kids" in my town put 302's in 'em :/
that 75% of street driven rotaries experience (most noticeably by in-experinced drivers with less than 5 years driving)
04-06-05, 07:04 PM
#13
Lives on the Forum
Um, did I get this right...
The engine failure did substantial damage, but the apex seals came out fine?
Does that mean I would reuse them or something???
Personally, I would throw the entire engine away!
I dunno if it's a valid argument for stock Mazda vs. RA, but if the engine failed with that much damage, you're still stuck in the same boat as if just the apex seal failed.
I dunno if that's validilty of ragging on the stock Mazda apex seals?
I don't mess with NOS though...
-Ted
The engine failure did substantial damage, but the apex seals came out fine?
Does that mean I would reuse them or something???
Personally, I would throw the entire engine away!
I dunno if it's a valid argument for stock Mazda vs. RA, but if the engine failed with that much damage, you're still stuck in the same boat as if just the apex seal failed.
I dunno if that's validilty of ragging on the stock Mazda apex seals?
I don't mess with NOS though...
-Ted
04-06-05, 07:10 PM
#14
The engine failure did substantial damage, but the apex seals came out fine?
Personally, I would throw the entire engine away!
I dunno if it's a valid argument for stock Mazda vs. RA, but if the engine failed with that much damage, you're still stuck in the same boat as if just the apex seal failed.
I dunno if that's validilty of ragging on the stock Mazda apex seals?
I dunno if that's validilty of ragging on the stock Mazda apex seals?
04-06-05, 07:27 PM
#15
If some one wants to send me a 13bt block and some seals I'd be more than happy to give you the long term tests
Or just the seals and a daily driver while the engine is out and replaced seals.
I drive my TII converison 64 miles a day round trip to work.
I also launch from the stoplight/entrance light on the onramp to the highway every day.
I would be a good candidate because I can get miles racked up quick and I do a normal daily driving with some hard runs mixed in
My current engine has about 20k on it so far. Runnin pretty good.
In a year or so when I blow this engine I plan to get some RA seals to see how they do.
By then I hope to get a BNR stage 2/3 or a T04 of some sort. Will most likely ditch the Rtek ecu by then and go Haltech or Microtek.
Or just the seals and a daily driver while the engine is out and replaced seals.
I drive my TII converison 64 miles a day round trip to work.
I also launch from the stoplight/entrance light on the onramp to the highway every day.
I would be a good candidate because I can get miles racked up quick and I do a normal daily driving with some hard runs mixed in
My current engine has about 20k on it so far. Runnin pretty good.
In a year or so when I blow this engine I plan to get some RA seals to see how they do.
By then I hope to get a BNR stage 2/3 or a T04 of some sort. Will most likely ditch the Rtek ecu by then and go Haltech or Microtek.
04-06-05, 09:05 PM
#17
i will post a small testimonial as well for Atkins seals, i had an issue with fouled plugs a few weeks ago and the car was bucking pretty badly, when i shot up to peak boost (approx 7psi feathering the throttle due to fuel cut as no fuel cut defenser is installed yet) i got several quite loud detonations, this is not the first time i have detonated either. i have abused these seals fairly well and even prior detonation on teardown i saw no abnormal wear, the seals miced out almost new still and i even reused them with different housings that i used in the rebuild. after the latest spark problem and massive detonation i have since fixed the problem and have been using it as my daily driver for about a month since and have had no issues with the engine, it is in fact producing more power than ever.
i have also previously posted about my unorthodox break in methods, basically my break in period is 20-30 minutes of idling and then the car is driven like i would on a daily basis (i have a bit of a lead foot
) and this has had no ill effects on the seals or housings during previous teardown inspections, keep in mind that the rebuilds had been seeing peak boost within miles of rebuild. i recently helped build an engine with RA seals and the member is quite happy with his engine.
so IMO, both RA seals and Atkins are great alternatives to OEM seals.
i have also previously posted about my unorthodox break in methods, basically my break in period is 20-30 minutes of idling and then the car is driven like i would on a daily basis (i have a bit of a lead foot
) and this has had no ill effects on the seals or housings during previous teardown inspections, keep in mind that the rebuilds had been seeing peak boost within miles of rebuild. i recently helped build an engine with RA seals and the member is quite happy with his engine.so IMO, both RA seals and Atkins are great alternatives to OEM seals.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 04-06-05 at 09:09 PM.
04-06-05, 10:38 PM
#18
wtf's a piston
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those have got to be some strong seals, It says on RAs site that the 3mm have held up to 35psi. Why does it say to use oem springs when boosting high and/or using nitrous on RA seals? Breaking a seal, or cracking an iron, I'd think either way that someparts of the engine would not be reuseable.
.
04-07-05, 01:54 AM
#24
It wouldn't have forced the breaks out that far if it didnt twist just about that much. I've seen this type of twisting force break loose oilpan seals, causing heavy leakage there where there was none before...and I've also seen it break the bond between waterseals and housings, so that the engine spewed water AND oil.
You don't think 20" tension rods have flex in them? IF you could see through the housings while the engine ran, you'd see them flexing like guitar strings at 8krpm. The back iron takes the brunt of the force, since it's bolted solidly to the bellhousing and cannot turn with the rest of the sandwich toward the front.
You don't think 20" tension rods have flex in them? IF you could see through the housings while the engine ran, you'd see them flexing like guitar strings at 8krpm. The back iron takes the brunt of the force, since it's bolted solidly to the bellhousing and cannot turn with the rest of the sandwich toward the front.
04-07-05, 06:19 AM
#25
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
I guess let me put it another way. How many engines with mazda 2mm seals have you ever gotten that had cracked that rear iron dowelpin hole? I've never seen any at all. So, this leads me to believe that the mazda seals will break before the iron does. Yet, these 3mm seals did not break, while the iron did.
I've only did that to one engine, and it was due to the Haltech ******* up and a miswired ignition input.
I know Dale Clark broke that area on a sub-300hp 13BT.
I really don't want to test your theory by purposely triggering detonation.
I have detonated my motor hard twice with no damage to the apex seals or the dowel pin lands.
-Ted