BugDiddy

hey guys, I searched, but I didn't see anything like this. Sorry if I didn't look hard enough.

I will be getting my lisence fairly soon, and I was looking for a good looking car that isn't so common (The last thing I want is to end up in some Civic that has absolutely no spirit or uniqueness). I have been driving since I was 12 (I have a 93 Tercel right now), and although I am not the best, I feel that I am more experienced than the average person my age with a lisence (although not much of it includes "spirited" driving). I was thinking about a non-turbo. Its not SUPER fast, but its enough to keep up with my friends (one is getting a 3rd Gen and he has plenty of $$ for mods, another has a Integra with a swapped motor, etc) and the sound of a rotary is probably my favorite sound to listen to.

I guess my main concern is that it starts up when you want it to. It will/would be my daily driver, so yeah.

I live in WI, and although our winters haven't been horrible the past few years, there is usually a decent amount of snow. Are these cars very drivable in the snow? Do they start up pretty well (I have heard both yes and no in reviews, so I am not sure)

I am not really worried about modifications, as I won't have that kind of money anyway (aside from a new audio system), but maintenance I am worried about. I know that the common belief is that rotaries like to break down a lot, but I don't know whether or not to believe that after seeing some of the videos and the tests.

And lastly, how is the insurance? Being a 16 year old, I know I am going to get SHAFTED by them, but is it as much as, say, a Camaro?

Sorry for the long post, but I want to know as much as possible before a purchase.

Thanks

jerd_hambone

my 87 is pretty hard to start right now... it was 70 the other day and it started no problem.. from what i've heard about them breaking down, is that they don't often and when they do its usually pretty small little things that are cheap and easy to fix.... but i don't know about it for sure... but if your friend is getting a 3rd gen. you won't be able to touch him if you race... but the integra, you should be able to destroy..... ^_-

BlaCkPlaGUE

Almost all older cars, rotary or not, are hard to start in really cold weather. Just lack of compression..
I found out the other day that the block heater is pretty decent, and I could see no problems starting in insanely cold weather as long as it was plugged in over night.

Rotarys are more prone to problems if they are abused and unkept. Regular oil changes, and just peeking into the engine bay every once in a while, looking for problems will keep it healthy. I think if your going to buy, buy an S4 (86-88) as they're pretty tough and use more reliable components. One for example is the oil metering pump, on the 89-92 models they are very prone to failure, and not only do they **** your engine if they can't deliver oil, they have been known to fry the ecu at the same time. The S4's use mechanical pumps that never break.

As a guideline if anything, if your looking for a reliable engine, make sure you do a compression test and coolant compression test before you buy the car! Read the faq, particularily the part on how to buy an rx7. It will show you what to look for, it will show you how to tell if the motor has a blown coolant seal, or a bad OMP, and other problems that lead to a rebuild of the engine.

DAN CARWIN

Well if I can put any imput or my oppinion on the situation, is if you end up buying a rx-7 N/A, follow these guidelines.

1) Buy from a Older gentleman (you can buy from a woman just make sure she has maintence records)
2) buy a rx-7 that is 100% stock all orginal if possible. Orginal owner is a good thing to.
3) these cars can do OK in the snow if you take it easy and not throttle it to quick!
4) Plan on spending a couple hundred in changing fluids and sparkplugs ETC.... after you buy it.
5) If you end up with the right rx-7 and take good care of it, I think it could keep up with a Honda or a Toyota as far as reliablity..
6) good luck.........

BugDiddy

Good to know with the snow!

Will my local Mazda dealer have any idea what they are doing to my car if I take it there for fluids and stuff, or should I try and find a shop?

mazdadude

iTrader: (2)

yeah the dealer is usually pretty good, but you can go to other places and get your **** changed for cheaper

Wankels-Revenge

Save some money and do it all yourself. All fluid changes and etc are easy as hell to do, and saving money on labour will pay off in the long run.
Unlike some other cars, the oil filter is in a VERY easy to reach location. Should take you no more than 5 minutes to change your oil.

BugDiddy

I got an online quote online with american family, and yeah, they want about 800 every 6 months.

Rtry-turboII

damn 800, I'm 21 and I pay 400, insane. Yea, about the handling in weather, I'm uber careful with rain, never had to deal with snow. roll on the gas, brake carefully, easy on the gas, should do okay.
-Bert

capn

well if its a good compression motor then it should be a good car. what i can not stress enough pick a runing working car. do not think that you will be able to fix a $500 non running car and drive it as a DD car it will end up costing more to fix and get running then you expect. so find a running working rx7 preferably the 88 for some reason that was a good year. mechanical OMP, high ohm injectors, some more luxuries and new additions.

thier not amazingly fast cars but they will keep up with some things with a 0-60 of roughly 8 seconds (as per the mazda sales brochure) its an ok performing car. also driving in the snow and inclimate weather some people say its a danger because it will spin out easily, and others say its fun cause it spins easily its jsut whatever you like more.

but thats my words of wisdom to ya

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

I think that any car can be dangerous in the snow...its up to the driver to decide how dangerous its going to be, take it slow in the snow, good tires will help. Once that back end starts to come around good look holding on to it.

PX Brotherhood

if u got with an 86 (the only year 2nd gen with out ABS) well...... you wont have abs. haha the good news is a lot of people prefer No abs for winter driving. i actually havent got a chance to drive my car in the winter however. i bought it in the fall, then the engine blew up so i did a swap.

BE REALLY REALLY CAREFUL what your buying. i saw my car and i was like "Wow this thing is hot" so i bought it. i didnt get it inspected or anything(slap me). little did i know some dumbass ran the thing over a really big curb (denting the undercarriage) then he must have hit a car. cause the frame is slightly bent. so again get it checked out. these cars are wicked fun to drive, best of luck in your search

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

a) if you plan on owning a rotary plan on learning how to fix it because it will break eventually, a matter of when no one knows.
b) rotaries are expensive to repair engine problems, when a problem occurs it is usually inside the engine and can cost upwards of $1k to repair the engine alone not including labor to remove and install the engine
c) the cars are light and being a rear wheel drive can be very hard to control in low traction conditions.
d) if your love for a rotary overrules a) through c) then go for it.
e) as stated, if you buy one buy a running RX7 or you will be in for a world of hurt.

if you want a unique car then a rotary is just that.

sar

iTrader: (1)

Hey, I feel as though I can relate to you a little. I am 18, and finally decided to upgrade from the pickup truck that my dad has been letting me do work in.

I bought two Rx-7s after a lot of shopping this summer. I bought the first one, worked on improving it a little, but sold it to the right person who wanted a bigger engine because the engine was gone in the rear.

I decided to spend $1900 on a running, very nice condition 89.

Regarding starting... tonight is the first night I have had an actual no start problem.... I re-arranged it in the garage without thinking so shame on me for practically no run time on the engine. Occassionaly I will have to use the fuel cut provided in the gas pedal (s5 only) to help starting. Starting is not as easy as in an underdriven starter in a truck.

I would say be careful choosing the RX-7... just passing emissions made me think about selling. Then there was a hole episode with a clutch and driveshaft. This was all on a car that had been running nicely (other than the clutch) when I had bought it. One thing that I maybe do regret is that I did buy my car partially because my friends had bought nice cars and I wanted something to express myself with. Considering the friend with the 3rd gen, i would think it would kinda suck driving up everday and knowing that his car is completely like 6 years newer than yours , twin turboed, and in that leek body. The speed in the NA is plenty for a 16 year old (its funny when you floor it at 4000 rpm (max torque) and the acceleration makes you hit your head on the headrest and your knee on the center counsole.

For both your friend's and you... as you are 16 you should start learning how to do some stuff yourself. Change your own oil... with an RX-7 you will probably need an oil change or some extra quarts every few months.... if say 3-4 times a year that cost is $40 instead of $80.... and I hate the owner before me who had it serviced where the oil drain plug was almost impossible to use due to stupid servicemen over tightening and using the wrong wrench and destroying the head. Do some of your other service too.

I may suggest a more fuel efficient car, unless you go ahead and spend money on a fuel controller. 10-17 mpg in the city can be rough on your time and budget.

Finally, the Rx-7 is a fairly unique car... its cool when you can have meets with 12-20 cars in a city like atlanta and meet people with a car like you.... not like a brand like porshe or ferrari meets.... but four specific designs with one engine type. Buying your own car with your own money will teach you about owning property and more.

O- and audio... I just did that, ~$200 for some nice speakers in the rear, the sucky dash kit, new 14g wire, and wiring harness. The hardest part is when you make your own spacers for the rear (to fit 6-1/2" in a ~ 8-1/2" hole... or you could spent 10x more than my 2x masonite board and get them from crutchfield). The sound is amazing.

KillaKitiie

Yeah ,and if you like too work on cars.Thats even better!

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

WRONG. TII's had ABS, NA's didn't, although it may have been an option. My '91 NA doesn't have ABS.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i believe it was an option not a standard feature, my 87 T2 doesn't have ABS nor does it have power steering, i like it without either might i add!

Syonyk

A properly maintained RX-7 is a quite reliable car. There are very few things to go wrong in the engine (especially with a NA). Sadly, basically anything that can go wrong involves a rebuild.

My general statement regarding RX-7 reliability is that they do not handle neglect as well as most piston engines. You can take a Civic, change the oil every 12k miles, run it out of oil once or twice, beat on it when it's stone cold, overheat it a few times, and it may not love you for it, but it'll generally keep running. Try that on a rotary engine, and it won't last 10k miles.

The biggest things you'll have to worry about are related to the fact that it's a 15+ yr old car, and some parts just plain wear out.

If you get a S4 (86-88) you'll want to replace the pulsation damper ASAP, unless you know it's been changed recently. Search if you want more info, but old pulsation dampers have a nasty habit of spraying high pressure fuel all over inside the engine bay (and more annoyingly, onto the exhaust manifold). There are some interesting pictures floating around of engine bay fires. Not a pretty sight.

In addition to the full fluid swap, I'd strongly suggest changing the thermostat and radiator cap(s), inspecting/replacing the coolant hoses (especially the one that comes from under the oil fill spout - oil + coolant hoses don't mix well), changing the plugs & wires, air filter, and doing a full tuneup on it (adjust idle, TPS, etc). Checking for vacuum leaks is helpful, since the hoses are usually factory. Pulling the intake manifold off to replace the pulsation damper is a great time to replace vacuum lines anyway. Check the double throttle actuator on the throttle body too - they seem to like becoming a vacuum leak.

I'm not sure what emissions laws are like near you, but at the very least pulling the precats would be a good idea. They like to fail and clog the main cat. If you live in a place without emissions tests (or don't mind swapping exhaust parts around every year or two) removing the cats is usually a good thing. Tree Hater edition and all.

You'll also want to expect to do an engine rebuild. If you're lucky, you won't have to, but expect it. It's much less painful that way (trust me). And, it's really not that bad of a process (plus you can port it while it's out).

Regarding what year to get, I'd agree with the suggestion of a S4 (86-88). Parts for them are cheap, and there's always a bunch being parted out (including one in my garage right now). If the engine blows, S4 motors are cheap, and you can always find cheap S4 rotors & housings that are in decent shape. S5 FCs put out a bit more power and are "nicer" in some ways, but slightly harder (read more expensive) to get parts for. Plus their temperature gauge is useless (the S4 one actually shows you something).

They're fun cars, but you really have to learn how to work on them yourself. Get a decent metric toolkit, a Haynes manual, and download the FSM (Factory Service Manual). As my parents asked one afternoon when I was working on my car, "Um... you have a good chunk of your engine sitting in the driveway. Is it going to be back in the car tonight?" "Yea, I just have the intake manifold and exhaust manifold off, doing some minor work. It'll be back together in a few hours." A year and a half ago, I wasn't even able to swap out coolant hoses (different car).

-=Russ=-

mr0pistons

1. I have had two NA's and haven't had a single problem about unreliability for either, except for a dead battery.

2. Insurance, I am 18 and pay 145 a month for liability with 3 accidents under my belt and no tickets. You probably won't have that bad of time, but depending on how much you pay for the car, it might not be worth getting full coverage.

3. Rain, I never have had problems, just don't drive like a jackass. A stock NA FC shouldn't have problems in the rain if good tires, brakes, etc...are installed. In the snow, it is a little different, but as long as you are being a cautious driver and drive according to the road conditions you should have little to no problems. I just got new brakes and tires on my car and we(St. Louis) just got hit with some snow and the car didn't have any trouble.

Good Luck

DrifterNoob421

Hey I am also looking for a rx7 s4 or s5 either one is great also it cause none of my family ever had a rotary. I would just like to thank you all for the post it really helpful to us noob who never had a car. All advice here were good thank you all.

Crashx7

The unreliablility tales that you hear of rotaries are, while based on truth, horribly exaggerated. I had less problems with my 1989 N/A GTU RX-7 than I have had with any of the other "more-reliable" cars that I've owned: a Mazda MX-6, two Ford Probes, one Chevy Cavalier, and a 1972 Chevrolet Chevelle (that car was actually pretty reliable for being a POS; and is now in the hands of my father who will be restoring and modding it).

I didn't exactly treat my GTU very well--redlines multiple times every day, powershifts, neglect the oil, generally be ignorant and stupid with it for about four months and it still ran strong and loud as hell. I don't know how long it would last like that though, treat it well and it will treat you well.

I'm native to Colorado and am no stranger to driving in the snow and ice. The RX-7 handles fairly well for what it is (a lightweight, RWD sports car!) in low-traction scenarios. Not as well as a FWD or AWD equivalent car, but manageable in anything less than six or seven inches. It gets sideways quite easily in the snow, but if you're aware and ready for that, and have good snow or all-season tires, you can avoid and/ or correct without difficulty. I think it's fun, personally!

Be ready to work on it though; it IS a 15 year old car and parts wear out over time. If you can or are motivated to learn to do the work yourself, you'll be much happier with the car and your wallet will thank you.

Be ready to spend some money too; these cars can (and will, eventually) become quite expensive very easily. But if you like a car that handles--REALLY handles-- and are willing to make the committment and sacrifice for that unique fun-factor that only a handful of cars can provide, then this is the car for you.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

double post V.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

and some are not so exaggerated, i have had the engine out of my car 4 times in 3 months trying to fix a problem that can only be fixed with time and money of which i have a limited supply of both. i will be pulling the engine out this weekend hopefully for the last time for quite some time to come.

Crashx7

True. All the reliability stories that get spread around have a factual basis somewhere.
They can be problematic.
They are not as reliable as a Honda Civic.
They are more fun than a Honda Civic.

Even mine was not without problems: I had a whole bunch of electrical gremlins that I never got the opportunity to fix.

All cars have problems. I'm taking a break right now from replacing a PITA part on my beater.

owen is fat

/\/\/\ well said.
once you find yourself frustrated with the costs of a 1st or 2nd rotary engine rebuild, you might venture a look into a V8 swap for your FC, dont be afraid, there are lightweight choices and mount kits available now that make this a simple, bolt-in swap. if you look for any FC as a "beginner" car then your best bet is on a non-turbo model and I'd try to find the most simple, well-kept, base model you can... a Sport package would be ideal.

man, you guys sure like putting down Civics...