dre_2ooo

Protege Menace and I have been arguing about this. If you're spark plug is firing, then your engine is working. He says it doesnt matter how STRONG or HOT the spark is, as long as the gasoline is ignited, it will be the same.

I just got some new NGK (stock) plug wires with resistances: L1/L2 = 7.5K ohms, T1/T2 = 4.5K ohms. I said this might get some better gas mileage. He says it won't make a difference. The old ones were L1/L2 = 18-19k ohms, T1/T2 = 12-14K ohms.

I would like to know if this would actually increase gas mileage or even perhaps regain some lost horsepower/torque? He says it won't make a difference cuz a spark is a spark. Can someone please explain why it's ever even worth it to replace wires/plugs (unless they are non-functional)?

jimmyv13

This answers your question.

Protege Menace...........

dre_2ooo

Umm... because there is lower resistance? But "a spark is a spark"

Protege Menace

We've argued about this on the protege froum many tiems and all the ricers think that the brightly colored wires will make them more HP.

and there are some products that claim to like ulse? the eelctricity.

aas long as it ignites the gasoline, thats pretty much all that matters.

if there IS any increase in power or mileage it will be minute. I had to buy new plugs and wires when i lost a cyl or 2... because they WERENT firing. once i replaced them i was back to normal.

Protege Menace

yeah more of the spark may get through, but if theya re ALREADY firing what will a little more current do?

yes it will be a stronger spark, i understand how resitance works. but its STILL sparking and igniting his gasoline.

dre_2ooo

God menace, these are not pretty ricer wires. They are NGK stockers. I was just replacing my 12 year old wires w/new ones.

I've heard lots of people on this forum claim how it feels stronger and ups gas mileage. I was just wondering HOW or if it's all rumors...

Protege Menace

I know yoru not gettign rice wirers. but teh ricers who DO get them iw as sayign think it ups their HP and MPG.

i know yorus are STOCK wires, im not saying anythign about them.

all im saying is unless yoru car IS misfiring, or NOT firing at al the new wires wont be making yoru car a dragster AND an economy car...

ponykiller

why do you think people buy ignition boxes? to get a stronger spark. the stronger spark matters when you are running high boost. on low compression engines, a stronger spark more efficiently/completely burns the air/fuel mixture, meaning you get better gas mileage and better emmisions, but it is not as noticeable as with a high boost/high compression engine.

Kris

Protege Menace

yeah i dont know much about turbo and sparks, but andre is n/a.

therefore that doesnt apply here.

dre_2ooo

Yeah, I want someone with expirience/expertise to reply (Ie. HAILERS, RETed, Sniper-X)

gold87na

resistance is important.. (I will have meny arguments from this anology) Them must be the same ricers that hook up a 4ohm stable amp @ 1.5ohm then wonder why the fuse keeps blowing. Then to stop the fuse from blowing they get a bigger fuse and wonder why the amp is not working anymore... heh. I'v worked on car audio as a full-time job since i was 13years old. I know every time you see a riced car you will find riced audio.. bwhahahaha

dre_2ooo

PM, I think this is the advantage. My friend just said : "at low rpm's hes probably right, but at higher rev's, there is more air being taken in, meaning it takes more energy to get the temp high enough for it to combine with the fuel and combust...if the spark is too weak it will still combust but it might not be as powerful."

Protege Menace

yes, but as long as it is igniting then whats the problem?

i can understand that if the plug is NOT firing thats BAD, but at the higher rpm's, it s firing no? well whats teh big deal then? firing=firing. unless its misfiring or not firing at ALL i see no problem

dre_2ooo

cuz w/more air it takes more to get a spark to cross the gap. the density is different and it's a leaner mixture. the power it takes to get a spark to fire is raised b/c the ambient conditions are different.

Maybe the old resistant wires wont let enough through for it to fire every time in these conditions.

BlackRx7

I wonder about this too, bump this up to get some expert advice

Protege Menace

dont you ever read my posts?

i KNOW that compressed air has a higher resistance.


but the thing is, your spark plugs ARE sparking at this higher resistance at higher rpm's no?

you keep thinkig your "pwning" me yet you arent even reading what I say.

this is gettign retarded. as long as your engine IS running properly and sparkign all through the rev's and there is no misfiring, whats the big deal.

dre_2ooo

Yes, but to ignite the A/F mixture, the spark must raise it's temperature up to that point. A weak spark that is not hot enough will not do that, hence, no combutsion.

Some new wires will help make a stronger, HOTTER spark that will guarantee a combustion everytime, no?

Protege Menace

yes it will GARAUNTEE it will do that everytime.

but who says yoru CURRENT wires are NOT doing that?

you showed me it sparking when you pulled the plugs out, and it was one hell of a long gap. I believe that that spark that is jumping many INCHES can jump the short distance in your plug gap.

im done arguin on the internet.

deadRX7Conv

All engines in the world misfire whether you feel it or not. No engine runs 100% of the time 100%. The purpose of new wires is to prevent, as much as possible, the misfires we can't really feel(yet). Plus, less resistance(in the wires) gives the 'juice' an easier path to reach the plugs. Excessive resistance can weaken the spark. Weak sparks lead to fouled plugs. Fouled plugs lead to misfires/no-start/poor mpg/poor performance........
With all those flooding problems.... makes me wonder what the real problem is. You decide.

Logic as good as this: As long as the oil flows, whats the point of having an oil change. As long as the filters aren't clogged, whats the point of changing the fuel/air/oil filters. As long as you don't **** on your hands, whats the point in washing .....

importboi22

when i went to the sentra dyno meet. Back when i was really into the sr20det's which i still am btw. They had the same big augrument. So one guy bought NGK NOLOGY, MSD , Stock wires. On the dyno he based at 128hp ( sentra SE-R stock no turbo just i/e) changed his 10k mile old wires brought dyno'd it he hit 131, 3hp just replacing his 10k mile old wires with stock ones. He went and put the nology ones in and hit 125 NOW THIS WAS The odd part. we tested the wires on 3 other sentras turbo'd and n/a they all evenly lost about 3-6hp. The ngk's and msd's scored a little better than the stock replacements dynoing at 133hp. so ya you can gain a little bit by upgrading your wires.... but i mean are you really gonna notice the power.. not really. But if every little bit of horsepower matters then change your wires. I think a guy with a protege' on the boards was there and saw it with his own eyes too. He has a silverish purple 95 protege with a front bumper painted white. So if you have an N/a with 14 year old stock wires. then hell ya i would change them.

dre_2ooo

Heheh... NGK IS stock for all RX-7's

Icemark

Okay... some basic electronics lessons here:

1. Resistance reduces current and voltage.

2. Resistance increases with heat.

3. Heat breaks down the capability of metal or carbon to conduct electricity causing additional resistance.

4. Go back to #1.

Now some spark theory:

1. You can test spark fire and get a huge gap. Sometimes up to an inch or two jump of spark across air.

2. #1 should not be confused with the super-sonic tornado/vortex of cool gasoline and air that is actually happening inside your engine on a compression cycle.

3. An insufficient spark will blow out during the compression cycle.

4. Spark is directly related to the temperature, voltage, and condition of the ignition components.

Therefore if all the above if fairly accurate, sparkplug cables age with heat and current/voltage handling. If there is too much resistance in the wire, the problem will only get worse, by the heat being generated by the resistance in the wires. The more voltage can't get through, the more the wires heat up and the molecular ability to transmit electrical current drops.

If the voltage drops enough again your spark will go out and you will have an incomplete burn.

So new spark plug wires regularly help prevent that as do higher performance conductor spark plug wires.

But you will not gain any additional HP without increasing either the gap, or duration of the spark and with the latter only being important in cases of increased fuel or advanced timing to again avoid blow out of the spark.

But you might gain back lost HP that poor condition spark was robbing from you.

BTW a good book for anyone wanting to understand a little more about automotive ignition systems is “The Doctors Guide to automotive ignition” by Chris Jacobs (yep the same guy that started Jacobs Electronics).

banzaitoyota

Well said ICEMARK

E6KT2

Damn ProtogeMenace. That's gotta hurt.



j/k. At least we are all a little wiser.

dre_2ooo

Thanks Icemark!

I knew there was more to it than "a spark is just a spark."