No7Yet

The problem here isn't the original question, Rpeck - it's the people who come in here saying "you should(n't) do it because of XXX", when they've a) never done a TB mod or experienced a car with a modded TB, b) can't grasp the reasons why this could (but may not be) be a good mod and c) won't defer to those who OBVIOUSLY know what they're talking about.

I've done the TB mod. I've lived with a car with a modded TB. I've driven (back-to-back) a car without a modded TB. I KNOW the differences, the reasons, and the results. I recommend against it unless it's either done in concert with other mods or it's done to fix a problem. That's my opinion, but it's based on experience and not hearsay.

Ted's post was right on target. There is most definitely a "peanut gallery" here, and they've gotten pretty loud lately. I love RX-7s, too. I, too, work on them as a hobby*. But I know the difference between hearsay and experience, and I'll admit when my opinion is based on the former, and I don't view Ted's post as some sort of "slam" on the RX-7 community, especially in light of his numerous contributions to same.

Thank you.
Brandon

* But I'd like to make it a job! Hire me!

Bambam7

I am very sorry that you are completely miserable son of a bitch- you have my full sympathy.

Since when are we not allowed to voice our own opinions of modifcations? I am very dissapointed that you are suddenly taking these things personally, and you are resulting to immature, juvenile rebuttals. When are you going to start insulting my mother?

As it is apparent that you didn't acutally read my posts, I made it pretty damn clear that I hadn't actually done this, and I voiced that disclaimer 3 or 4 times in the post.
Might want to re-read that.
My opinion of a well engineered car is one that runs well all the time, and FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD (Can you read capitols?) The TB mod is not worth the gains IMO. Some people may perfectly well live with the drawbacks, but I don't want little Mickey Mouse drivability issues making the car less cohesive.

Myself, nor any on this forum, nor ANY other Mazda specialist in Canada (including some very well experinced rotary mechanics, who are much more pleasant than yourself) can figure out the problem.

Can't fix my own car? Seriously, you just lost all credibility with me. You are a knowledgable guy, but you must practice what you preach. You go on a 10 minute rant about people without making assumptions without experience. Yet you havn't seen my car- nor the time and labour I have put into it to maintain it's pristine shape.
Sounds like a peanut gallery comment to me.
With the exeption of a bit of a jerk when you touch the gas, Every last tiny thing on the car works perfectly, right down to the power antenna and the wipers. That's pretty rare.

I am no longer responding to this thread.

I really think you need to STEP OFF, and reconsider the reprecussions of your posts, before you start getting into personal attacks. Keep it technical, and keep your the opinions about other people to yourself, since they are useless, and from my perspective now, completely innapropriate from a profesional (profesional in the knowledge department ONLY as you just demonstrated) tech.

fcturbo2

I did the TB mod (not installed yet) and it was so easy. I dont remember drilling anything though! Tapping was very easy..

boostmotorsport

I did the TB mod + ported my daily driven T2 and love it, one of the best mods I ever did. The throttle response is awesome.

Node

iTrader: (1)

anyone w/ N/A TB Mod experience?

boostmotorsport

I am getting sick and tired of hearing you have bitch about others posts ALL THE TIME. This isnt YOUR forum. We arent here to please you. We dont need you as a hall monitor. Seriously you whine more than ANYONE I HAVE EVER SEEN on any forum. You must get a real kick out of correcting people huh? Because you do it on here every single opportunity.

No7Yet

Fred, did you even bother to read any of the comments above? I mean that in the nicest way, but c'mon, man! No, it's not Ted's forum, but someone asked a really simple question with a not-so-simple answer. Instead of saying (for example) "Yes, you should mod it because it'll improve your throttle response" or "No, you shouldn't because it might make cold-starts harder", we get crap like "Hell yeah, port the hell outta that sum'bitch, but I wonder what that would feel like" and "I wouldn't do it because drilling into your TB is wrong".

WTF???

It must bug you that Ted corrects people so much. But I don't think it's the actual correction - it's that he's right. Fact is, Ted's got a LOT more experience than most anyone on this forum, including you. And just think - most of the people who know more than him (and there are lots) stick to the email lists, because they don't feel like taking the time to "reach the masses" and answer the same old questions and dispel the same old myths.

I answer questions whenever I can, and correct people whenever I'm right. But if I don't know what I'm talking about, I shut up. Especially when someone that I know is more knowledgeable than me tells me that I'm wrong.

*sigh*

Brandon

rexman13b

iTrader: (7)

I just did the TB mod on my T11, and I love it. That double throttle **** sucks anyway. To be honest, when you first floor it, there might be a slight stumble for about 1 second then after that, of you go. I can live with that, it's worth it, especially when sometimes the double throttle plates don't even open like their supposed to. It's any easy mod, and it works great. Just unsrew the throttle plates, and take some other **** off. I plugged the holes the shaft left with JB weld, the stick putty like kind, and it works like a superstar. Good luck with your TB mod!

No7Yet

Wow. What an incredibly valuable post, chris-reed. Thank you for that pearl of wisdom. Will someone archive that post? I think everyone needs to read it, since it's just SO full of useful information, anecdotes, and opinions.



Brandon
(wishing he could remember the line from Billy Madison)

HWO

If you spend $500 bucks and an hour to fit something, or $5 and 100 hours to make up something and BOTH give you a performance gain, SURELY they are both time and money well spent?

I'm making a generalisation here but alot of the guys on this forum, YES Americans seem to have a problem called off the shelf syndrome. That is, unless you can buy it off the shelf with spoon fed in structions on how to fit it becuase it bolts straight in (hence you pay twice what you should do for the item) then you wont touch the thing.

Now in other countries, ie: aussie and NZ, you find a way of converting something from another vehicle so it'll do the job you intend it to do on your own vehicle.

Weather it be spending 4 or 5 hours grinding the living daylights outta your throttle body with a dremel, to make the air flow thru it a fraction of an inch per second faster than it did previously or something else. Get off your **** and do the freakin thing. dont bitch and moan about what others 'claim' it has done to their cars, when some of you obviously dont deserve to tinker with a rotary anyway.

BLAH BLAH BLAH

MtnRacer

I think that's the sort of post whoring Ted was complaining about...

Steve

P.S. Unless, of course, it was a witty display of irony, in which case, it probably still pissed Ted off.

NZConvertible

Hell yeah, too true!
Sure, big-dollar namebrand stuff has it's place, but when you totally rely on this stuff, you forget what car modification is all about!

HWO

exactly, by the time my car is finished, the only things i wont have done myself will be

Rollcage - had to be built by a certified welder
Exhaust - i dont have a welder and cant weld anyway
wheel alignment - dont have the right gear (obviously)
exhuast manifold - cant weld, but made a model of what i wanted it and took it to my friendly fabricator

everything else has been modified and or installed by me.

I can see how guys spend $35000 on doing up a car, they get $20000 worth of parts and pay $15000 for people to install them.

in total my car will have had around $900 worth of labour spent on it with 2/3's of that being the rollcage fabrication

MtnRacer

Alright you New Zealanites, you've had your moment in the sun... now BACK to your rocks! All of ya! And don't come out until Waitangi Day!

Steve

So where do we draw the line at name brand stuff? It seems pretty clear to me at the FCD/ boost controller level, but less clear at the exhaust/intake level

RICE RACING

The TB mod is worthits weight in aluminium shavings in gold !

I went all out on mine and do two levles of ones for customers general type like the one discussed and an all out one that requires "a bit" of devcon to patch up the few holes that appear in the TB once you knive edge the castings and smooth out the transitions from triangular entry to the three round holes for each throttle plate.

I would say that it is worth 3 to 5% more power at least over a non modified TB.

Josepi

I almost consider that he is entitled to. He contributes more accurate information than 90% including myself.



A kick? No, he probably just doesn't want false information being spread around.

Silkworm

So what are you going to do when the time comes to install a water temp guage? Not install it because it's a **** rig?
Or if you strip a thread in the block? throw the engine away Agnes, it's a shitrig now!

Tapping metal isn't a mysterious science.. Personally, I'd much rather see a well done tapped hole in the block than someone's JB weld job to glue something in there. (as if I'm one to talk )

If you decide that you don't want to do this because it's more complex than you want to handle, fine. But it's not a "**** rig".

PaulC

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I did it in my n/a. It was definately worth it, and its no big deal that it has a crappy idle when cold. I always let my car warm up anyway. I did have to get used to the touchy throttle, just takes some time to adapt, but feels alot more responsive, which is always good.

importboi22

what i think is funny is that he says that he doesnt want to drill or tap anything in his block or cut anything on the block for that matter, yet he has a streetport? isnt that technically drilling or porting the block? hes cutting away at something perment like he said he doesnt want to do.

Rpeck

That’s a whole nother ball game. I am not holding my street port together with JB weld & PT Tape. Also I had two spare housings to practice my street porting on before I started. I am not at all suggesting that someone who wants to do this mod not do it. I am just stating my opinion on the Mod and why I am not going to do it. Personal preference is all. Also with street porting I am enlarging a existing hole.. .not making new ones.

RETed

So I take it you're my personal basher on here now?&nbsp That's so sad.&nbsp Don't you have a shop or something?&nbsp You need to get a life and get out more.&nbsp You're so angry at me that nothing I wrote got comprehended in your brain.&nbsp This is the second non-constructive post I've seen from you in a reply I've sent.&nbsp Do you personally read through all the replies I write and jump on me when you see an opportunity?

Maybe you would find this as a relief then...&nbsp I've got a short "vacation" coming up in about a week.&nbsp I'm going back to Hawaii to work on a bunch of cars.&nbsp This includes no less than one 13B-REW rebuild and at least three Haltech install and tunes.&nbsp Add to that, the big 20B-FC project is also tossed in there for good measure.&nbsp Those who keep track of the 20B scene might have a clue on what this is all about.&nbsp I'm going to leave it at that.&nbsp In the meantime, I cannot guarantee I'm going to have consistent access to check ANYTHING that's web/net related.&nbsp This means my replies should slow down drastically - does that make you happy?

At the very least, send this **** through PM.&nbsp Bashing me doesn't look good on here - it's not an ego trip of mine, it's just bad for business if you are opening a shop.



-Ted

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Nice thread, guys...

Anyway, I did the TB mod as I was converting to turbo, and I didn't notice anything negative about it. Granted, I did a few other modifications at the same time, but I have not noticed the "symptoms" generally associated with the TB mod.

Honestly, if you don't have the upper intake already taken off, don't do it just for this mod. Wait until you have it removed for some other reason and do the TB mod at the same time. It should only add about half an hour to the job.

FWIW, I can see why RETed is pissed off. Lately, there has be a LOT of disinformation posted by people who have no business giving advice...Though I am pretty sure Bambam7 knows what he's doing.

Felix Wankel

I'm just going to clarify that I do think its worth doing. Hopefully I'm not in the peanut gallery

My car doesn't jerk or hesitate. The only quirk is no cold idle for about 5 minutes, but thats the price I pay for having no BAC or anything else.

Aaron Cake is right on the money.

NZConvertible

I’ll throw in my $0.02 about the TB mod.
I know from personal experience that this mod does have positive effects on performance. My 1984 12AT Cosmo had a three-barrel TB with five plates just like the FC. I disconnected the mechanism that operated the first set of secondary throttles (which were operated via a dashpot to slow their response) and wired them open. This had a noticeable effect on throttle response, with no significant effects on driveability. I know I could have improved flow further by removing the plates and shaft, but I never quite got around to it! On the Cosmo, this system had no effect on the cold-start idle, so that wasn’t a concern.
For my FC, I have not considered doing the full TB mod because I drive my car to work every day and want it to idle properly right from the start. I don’t have time to wait for it to warm up, and heel-toeing to keep it idling at all the intersections I stop at before it gets warm would annoy the hell outta me! So I’ll probably only do what I did to the Cosmo, or even just remove the first set of secondary throttles. Not quite as effective, but everything in life is a compromise!