sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

87' Turbo II
Mods: half-*** emissions removal (will elaborate)

Just got it back from the shop, and I was told to let it run so it could build compression so I drive home put it in neutral and leave it running in the yard. After an hour or so I decide to get some gas. But when I get to the end of the street, I come to a stop sign, and press in the clutch and break and the RPM's just keep falling until it dies. It WILL NOT start under it's own power for anything (tried the de-flooding trick 5-6 times) Finally I pushed it about a half block down the street to a parking lot w/ a decline so I could roll start it. The only way I made it too the gas station was by holding down the accelerator the whole time, EVEN while stopped. Of course, after I got gas it wouldn't start, so I had to find another small decline to get going. I get home and figure, I'll just pop it in neutral and leave it running again.....Not quite. Now it won't even hold idle in neutral, and after about 10 minutes of keeping from dying, I started to see whitish smoke (that didn't seem to have any smell) and I just shut it off.

I call the shop back and the guy says it's just flooding and to leave it alone for 20 mins and go start it up. I went back 20 min later and it started back up on the first try. So I left it running for a couple hours until it eventually died on its own (not from lack of fuel)

The next day, I get up and crank it up, it starts fine, and I leave it on for 2 hours, I come back and it's died on it's own again. I start it up again, and it cranks on the first try. After 20 min of idling I decide to take it for a spin around the block. The first stop sign I get to......the RPM's fall off until it dies. Try the deflood procedure. Still turns over, but will not start. I push it down that same parking lot.......no start. The RPM's jump to 6-900 when I release the clutch, but then they just fall, and pushing the gas seems to have no effect. Then I get 2 friends to push it across the parking lot.....same thing. Then I get my brother to push it w/ his car......same thing. Finally I just had it towed back to my house.

The car would cough 2-3 time like it wanted to start, then it would just go back to turning over. We'd de-flood then crank again, and the first time it would cough a little and every time after that it would turn over w/ no attempt to start.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

So I did a little research, and decided to check to see if a vaccum leak was the reason the car would hold idle in neutral, but not while in gear.

When I popped the hood I discovered the following:

-The Air Control valve had been removed and blocked off w/ a plate + gasket.
-The Air Bypass Valve was still connected to the TID but the nipple had nothing
attached to it.
-The EGR was still attached but had nothing connected to the nipple
-The pressure sensor was "TEE'd" into a hard line comming from a circular thing beneath the turbo (BOV?) along with a line comming from right behind the EGR going into a nipple on the UIM
-Perhaps most disturbing, the Split Air Tube was completely missing and there was no block-off plate to speak of.

I used nipple caps to plug the EGR and Air Bypass Valve nipples. and Some aluminum tape to cover the hole left by the Split Air Tube. That didn't help starting at all
De-Flooded
Then I capped the hard line and pluged the Air Bypass Valve into the "T" fitting w/ the pressure sensor and strange line comming from behind the EGR. Still didn't help.
De-Flooded
Removed the spark plugs (brand new) and cleaned them (they were wet and smelled like fuel) cranked the engine over and reinstalled. This time it almost caught, but eventually went back to just turning over.
De-Flooded
Removed spark plugs and cleaned again (this time only the leading plugs were wet) and added some motor oil. After 2-3 tries it started up and smoked to high hell !!! after a couple minutes the smoke cleared out but it still would not hold idle. after switching some vaccum lines around to see if that would help idle, I just let it die. It has not been close to starting since, and the plugs have been removed twice and more oil added once. (the plugs aren't even wet )

WHAT CAN I DO TO GET THIS PIECE OF GARBAGE TO START/ RUN !?!?!?!

I've had this car for 3 months and driven it for 3 days. It's starting to seem like the most fun one can have w/ a 7 is shopping for one...or selling it

idsigloo

The BPAV is running into the TID but the nipple has nothing attached to it? Make sure you have a good seal on the TID so that the ecu gets the correct air reading past the MAF.

Valkyrie

I had mine for 5 months before I drove it... don't give up :p

Like I said in the other thread, a little bit of throttle might help you get it started.

More air = more compression, which helps on a rebuild (which will have low compression).

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

idsigloo: Correct. The Bypass Air Valve is connected to the TID but there wasn't anything on the nipple originally. I put a valve cap on the nipple w/ a little sealant and a zip tie to cap it off.

Valkyrie: Yikes! was yours your daily driver as well? cuz always walking and bumming rides has certainly gotten old for me. Trust me, I tried many variations of throttle application in an effort to assist the starting process. The only time it was helpful was right after I had cleaned the spark plugs and put a little oil in for the first time. Other than that it seems to have little to no effect :-(

Valkyrie

Daily driver... not really. It didn't run when I bought it. Did I intend to drive it daily? Yes. But I could only work on it on weekends that I got home from college, which was kind of rare.

It's totally reliable now.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Well, I sold one of the most reliable cars on the road for this little four-wheeled bucket of ****-fits. Not that I expect the same degree of maintainance-free reliability, but it'd be nice to be able to actually drive it. The worst thing is, I could at least start it before the rebuild, just seems like a step backwards instead of forward.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

I've searched every concievable combination of the words: start, emissions, rebuild, turn over, flooding, and spark for literally the past 18 hours. A little help would be greatly appreciated.

- future former FC owner

Valkyrie

In that case I would set the throttle stop so that it idles at about 2000 RPMs, push start it again, and let it run for a few hours (be careful not to set it too or it might start and end up at 8000 RPMS in about 2 seconds...).

(you might need to have someone set the stop while you're holding it at 2K)

idsigloo

What nipple are you talking about? Is the BPAV recirculating the air into the TID?

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Valkyrie: Is that the standard break in procedure for the 13BT? I ask because the first day I had it back it idled @ 1000-1100, the second day it was down to 900-1000 (although it did eventually die on it's own) But if I can ever get it started again I'll have to see if it'll hold idle if i set it to 2k

idsigloo: The Bypass Air Valve sits on the TID (after the AFM) and there is a nipple comming off of it. I'm not sure what it's suppose to connect to since there was no hose connceted to it when I found it so I just capped it off. So it's not recirculating anything as of now.

idsigloo

The nipple on the BPAV connects to the UIM with vacuum line. You should see it right below the BAC on the UIM.

Valkyrie

I suggest you set it that high to garuntee it won't die on it's own... in case the timing was set too much to retard, or if you had vacuum leaks, etc...

And setting it to 2000 RPMs wouldn't hurt it... it would break it in faster though (or at least help you get to the point where it will start on its own, not to mention charge the battery for you).

idsigloo

If its starting then dieing then its definately a vacuum leak. If you plugged the nipple on the BPAV but not the nipple on the UIM (which is pretty hidden underneath the BAC) then you've pretty much solved your problem. But you shouldn't plug these nipples, you need that vacuum line ran so you can actually bypass air.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

gotcha, I've seen some diagrams (post emssions removal) and the bypass air valve connects via a "T" splitter with the pressure sensor and they both plug into that nipple on the UIM.

On mine however, the pressure sensor connects to a hardline that comes from below the turbo, as well as a line that comes from behind the EGR and then to that nipple ont he UIM.

I could connect the Bypass Air Valve w/ the pressure sensor but I don't know which of the other two lines to cap off.

idsigloo

As long as the BPAV sees vacuum it doesn't matter how you plumb it.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

So I do need to have it connected then...

What about those other lines that are connected to where the Bypass Air Valve should go? Should I plug them or just put another "T" in there and leave them all connected?

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

And just for the record, I just looked at my plugs as I cranked it, and I DO have spark. I also have fuel (judging by the fine fuel scented mist that comes out when I crank it w/o the plugs.

Which I suppose leaves compression (or maybe vaccum leaks) as the culprit?

rx7legend

bro if i were you, ill take the car back to the shop where the engine was rebuild and tell them that im having problems with it, and i want them to fix it and give it to me running not giving me hard times, you paid for them to work on your car might as well give the car to you running with no problems don't you think so?

later

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

I completely agree. The guy who runs the shop has worked on my family's cars' for years, and I'm sure he'd make it right. But I'm kinda on a time schedule ie- I have a 9am class and I'm 267miles from school. If at all possible I'd like to get this issue resolved soon, so I can get on the road, and not have to wait till 8-9 o'clock when his shop opens and then wait another ????? hours for him to diagnose/fix the problem. At the very least I'd like to be able to go up there, say "X,Y, and Z need fixing..." and then be on my way.

Plus, the one thing more difficult than not having your car, is having your car and not being able to drive it cuz that **** don't run.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Update:

I've installed a fuel cut off switch, but it has absolutely no affect. The engine still turns over but doesn't try to start whether the switch is on or off.

I checked last night and I had spark on all four plugs (not sure how bright the flash is suppose to be, but it was present on all 4 plugs) But since it's not even trying to start I'm a little confused.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

first, check it for codes and disregard any related to the blocked off components.

could be plugged up exhaust, does the car still have a catalytic converter(s)?

the TPS could be out of adjustment, was the TPS ever adjusted to spec?

was this a turbo conversion or are all the original parts being used for the rebuild install? sensors and ECU could be wrong for the application if it is a swap.

a large enough vacuum leak or faulty AFM could cause the engine to not want to start.

does the engine sound like it is cranking erratically or spin fast with no sound like compression is being built, like just the starter spinning with little load from the engine? the could indicate a fault inside the engine from the rebuild.

the fuel system can be a major contributor since the dual step relay has been known to have problems, try check voltage readings at the pump while cranking or during running if you can get it started. plugged up fuel filter can also cause issues like this as well as i mentioned earlier a faulty injector or wiring clip issue. start by checking pump voltage, then move onto the filter, either checking fuel pressure after the filter or replacing it, then move to the injectors having them serviced, ohm tested or testing the wiring for issues.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

A) I do not have a code checker, where should I get one?
B) Yes, the stock cats are still on there. There is also an exhaust leak around the transmission area (maybe the cats?)
C) I am unaware of the previous TPS setting, I had similar starting problems before the rebuild however. How do I check the current setting?
D) This is an original T II, no swap
E) I've been trying to search for vaccum leaks, but w/o a running engin this becomes very difficult. How exactly do I test the AFM to see if it's bad?
F) The engine does not sound like it's cranking erratically. It's a very steady pace. Right after I do the de-flooding procedure it sounds like it wants to crank about every 2nd or 3rd turn, but after a few seconds it goes back to just turning over w/ no attempt at starting
G) I will get a tester so I can look at the voltage on the pump, although it seems to be working. once when I removed the spark plugs and cranked, there was plenty of fine fuel mist coming out of the holes. Also, when I installed my cutt-off switch i accidentally grabbed one w/ an LED and wired it to the power and fuel pump lines so when I flicked it on, the pump just ran and I could hear it loud and clear.

I think we can rule out anything that is essential to keeping the car running, because when I was able to get it started, it had no problems as long as you kept your foot on the gas. It even idled at 900-1100 when I first got it back from the shop.

Right now I'm goin to check for obvious vaccum leaks, and trying the deflooding procedure again (now that I have the cut-off switch)

calrx7

next time, rebuild the engine urself. did those guys at the shop even know how to work on rotaries?

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Update:

I got it started!
I removed the spark plugs, egi fuse ,and turn the fuel cut switch to off, and cranked it over in 10 sec intervals about 5-6 times, tossed in some oil, and it actually started (once all was put back to normal).

It wouldn't hold idle for ****, but at least it started. I got to use the fuel cut switch for the first time to shut the engine down. When I went to crank it up, I let it crank a few times then hit the switch and it fired up.

It idled very erratically hovering at around 900 (and sounding like it was going to die) then shooting up to 1200 and bouncing around a little before dropping back down. At times it would hold at 1000-1100 for 2-3 minutes, but then it would go back to bouncing.

I tried to raise the idle using the adjustment screw on the side of the manifold, but I turned it lock to lock in both directions, and it had no affect on the idle. I tried to see if it would hold idle while in gear (w/ the clutch pushed in) and it promptly died.

Now I'm trying to solve these idle problems, how can I adjust the idle and if the adjustment screw doesn't work, what does that mean? and how can I get it to idle while in gear instead of just dying?