87turboII

I am going to start upgrading my 87TII with a T04 in these next few weeks and i have lots of ?s. First I need to know what all i am going to need I know i need the turbo, i want a turbonetics T04 where is a good place to buy one i have read alot of bad things about turbocharged.com and i do not know of any other turbonetics dealers. Can you buy directly from turbonetics? Next i need the turbo manifold i found a HKS cast manifold at overboost.com for only $250, is the HKS manifold good,bad...?? Next thing i know i need are larger injectors, should i go something like 4 850s or just 2 1200s for the secondaries or is running them staggered bad?? the other things i know i need is a new BOV and wastegate i will probably go with a HKS SS BOV does anyone have any suggestion for a good yet affordable wastegate. I also know i need a intercooler i will probably go with a starion intercooler for right now cause i am a poor college student. Now beyond this i dont know what else i will need to complete the project, is this it or are there a bunch of things i am forgetting and is this a really hard project to perform i am no where close to being a master mechanic but i have been working on my own cars now for about 8 years and i am fairly mechanically inclined. can i tackle this project myself or should i leave it to the professionals? sorry so long thanks

RestoTII

I'll just start off by saying I can't really help you out... but...

If you do decide to do this project yourself, would you mind taking pics, notes and whatever else to help the rest of us out with the same problems you might come across? I also have an 87 TII and i think the turbo's gonna be going fairly soon, so I'd like to check out some options for upgrades as well. Right now I figured I'd just take small steps, but if I happen to come across a few grand, I wouldn't mind going the T04 route. Sorry I couldn't help you out on this one... but good luck anyways.

Dyre

Things you need-
--------------
Turbo
Manifold
new DP
Wastegate
Oil lines
Turbo inlet
IC and Piping
----------------
Then you need some fuel.
Figre out your hp requirments then use a injector calculator
You'll definatly need injectors (2x720, 2x1200?) and more importantly a fuel managment system... ala haltech or wolf...

You can try a S-AFC if your daring...
And include a motor rebuild if your car has more than 80k miles, as the seals will be very warn and are not going to last long when the car suddenly starts making 2x the hp.

Flamin' NOS

Check out www.lateshiftengineering.com They have great prices on all the parts you need need. Also, check out this thread https://www.rx7club.com/vforums/show...threadid=15004
It tells the total cost on a project like you should embark on. PM InitialD FC, he's one of the owners.
Hope this helps
steve

RX-7 GT

yo, yea chris is the man. he sells garrett instead of turbonetics cause thier way cheaper, and turbonetics actually buy's the turbo's from them anyways and marks em up.

email him at lateshifteng@hotmail.com

SoloRacer

I also have a 1987 RX7 Turbo II and have been preparing it for a big turbo (T04) I am warning you right now though that this is not a cheap affair. How much do you plan on spending on your project? To give you an idea of what I have spent totally on my car I started out at $ 3000US and now am into the car for $13,000US and still have to buy the turbo, front mount intercooler and some other pieces. I am probably looking at another $3000US before the project gets close to being done. Then there is all the tuning that has to be done to get the car running right. I am warning you right now that this is not a job for someone who is just beginning to understand what is required. If you survive the install the tuning process will most certainly drive you nuts. Trust me.....I know from experience. You haven't really stated how much power you are looking to make and what sort of response you want from the package. This will affect the decisions you make when selecting your turbo. Here are a few of the things you will need to do the job:

1) Larger fuel pump. How large will depend upon the amount of air you are putting into the engine. The bigger the turbo the bigger the fuel pump. I currently am running a FD fuel pump but will be upgrading to a larger unit.

2) Rising Rate Pressure Regulator. You will need something to increase the fuel pressure to all those injectors you plan on running. I currently am using a Malpassi unit.

3) Additional injectors. How many and what size? Depends again on the application. You may also end up building an additional fuel rail. I am running 550 primaries, 720 secondaries but may soon change to running 8 550 injectors (2 primary and 6 secondary) or just adding another pair of 720's.

4) Engine Management system. You will need something to control all those injectors and to control the ignition timing. Installing and tuning this unit will take knowledge of how the turbocharged rotary works and lots of patience. I don't know of anyone using a Super AFC with a big turbo. With a hybrid turbo I have heard of guys going with new chips and/or a Super AFC and some sort of AIC. Most guys I know who have big singles go with a stand alone engine management system that completely discards the stock system. Electromotive, TEC, Motec, Haltec, Wolf are a few of the systems available. Choose carefully and understand the system totally because this unit will be the brains behind your car and will give you fits if it's either installed wrong or tuned poorly. I currently am using a Wolf 3D.

5) Turbo Manifold. The stock manifold is meant for a stock turbo. You will have to buy a T04 manifold to mount your turbo to. You can go with either a divided or non divided manifold. The divided manifold will spool your turbo faster but is more expensive. The HKS unit you mentioned is probably undivided. I am using the HKS undivided manifold.

6) Wastegate. Our cars have an internal wastegate. The T04 uses an external wastegate that bolts onto your new manifold. HKS, Tial, Turbonetics all make wastegates in different sizes. You will have make sure to get one that will handle the heat of the rotary engine plus have a large enough aperature to expel enough exhaust around the turbo to prevent boost creep. I am looking into either a Tial or HKS wastegate but am leaning towards the Tial unit.

7) Exhaust. The engine is basically an air pump. It draws air in and blows it out the back. If you choke the exhaust you can't expel as much air and as a result you make less boost. You will want as free a flowing exhaust as is legal in your state. I have the Racing Beat Turbo Back exhaust.

8) Blow Off Valve. This device is a one way valve installed to prevent damage to your turbo - with the bonus of making a nice loud "whooshing" noise that will scare away the competition. Your turbo sends air into your engine through your intake. When you shift the butterflys in the throttle body close and this air gets pushed back towards the turbo. The BOV vents this air out to the atmosphere. If this high pressure air was allowed to go back into your turbo back things could happen. I have not bought one yet as I am still using the stock turbo but I will probably pick up a TurboXS product.

9) Now where were we?........Oh yeah.... Turbo! What size and specs will depend on what your goals are. The size of the a/r will have a direct affect on the shape of your power curve and when your boost comes on. The larger the a/r the more power you make but the longer it takes for the boost to come on. The smaller the a/r the quicker you spool up but the less peak power you will make. So when you floor the car do you want it to be "wait...wait...wait... BLAM!!!! Oh yeah baby! Can someone please call a whiplash expert!" or do you want it to be "Wow, power came on right now but what is that you say? The power drops off after 5000 rpm?" Most people prefer something in the middle. Your choice of turbo, manifold, etc. will have a huge effect on your cars feel. Too big and you will have Honda Civic's killing you from light to light while you wait for your turbo to spool. Too small and you will have Camaro's passing you on the freeway. Choose wisely as this is one of the most expensive steps you will take. I am looking at buying a T04B 60-1, P-trim with either a 0.81 or 0.96 a/r housing. I will probably get the big shaft option and am considering the ball bearing option as well. Don't forget you need a tangential (not on center) housing and a v-band clamp.

10) Intercooler. You make maximum power, not to mention safer power, with cooler, denser air. There are air to air and air to water intercoolers and which you get depends on your application. Road racers use the front mount air to air because at speed you have good air flow through them to cool the intake charge. Drag racers want their intercoolers cold right from the start (ever wonder why guys put bags of ice on their intercoolers?) and with an air to water intercooler you can throw ice in the water to keep it cool. This gives you a nice cool intercooler but eventually the ice melts and the water heats up. But by the time that happens the 1/4 mile is done and it's time to reload. I'm road racing my car and am looking at going a custom front mount intercooler. Possibly a spearco core but I am investigating other options.

11) So we have the hardware to get it running. Am I forgetting anything? Well.....it might make sense to get a good set of gauges so that you know what is happening with your system. A boost gauge, EGT gauge, fuel pressure gauge and air fuel meter might be a good start. I currently use the Greddy 60mm peak hold gauges.

12) Boost Controller. Your boost is controlled by the wastegate. Wastegates have springs on them and the strength of the spring is what determines the rate at which the wastegate opens. The spring works in purely a linear fashion. You might want to consider getting an electronic boost controller to get the best power delivery. One misunderstanding many people have is that the boost controller will lower your boost levels. This is wrong...only the size of your wastegate will determine how low your boost will go. A boost controller can only increase your boost level. So if you are having boost creep or high boost problems a boost controller will not help you. I am considering getting an HKS EVC IV or the Apexi AVCR.

13) A J&S knock sensor, while not neccesary to get the car running, might also be a good investment. This device listens for engine destroying "knocks" and shuts down the fun before the engine goes. It's not a cheap unit but after spending the kind of dough you are going to spend on this job it might be nice to have this kind of protection. I don't have one yet and cringe at the $500 cost of the unit but I am seriously considering it. I know of one friend who probably saved his engine because it was installed.

14) What about spark? Are we getting enough of it? Might be wise to get an MSD or Crane ignition amplifier to make sure. Again, it may not be required but it could be a good idea.

15) What about the rest of the driveline? Can it handle this new found power you are going to be making? How good is your clutch? Big power will smoke an inadequate clutch in no time. From what I understand the T2 tranny is good for around 400 rwhp but be prepared to be rebuilding it and the rear end, diff mounts and u-joints frequently if you plan on being "enthusiastic" with your right foot.

16) How are you going to put this power to the ground? Do you have enough rubber on the road? After all, it's no fun having all the power in the world only to sit there and spin all the time. You are going to want it to hook up and scream right? Contrary to popular belief, squeeling your tires is not a cool thing and does not mean you are fast. I laugh when people talk about how fast their car is and talk about squeeling there tires. Hell my daily driver Honda Prelude will squeel it's tires and it slow as hell. All that means is you don't have enough traction and traction, my friend, is what it's all about. On the road course your tire selection and condition (pressure, etc.) will either win you or lose you a race. Same is true on the drag strip. So you might want to consider getting some bigger and better rubber. Oh, and be prepared to replace it often...cars with big power tend to be harder on tires. Don't be surprised if you go through a set of $1000 rubber a year.

I haven't even touched on things like suspension and brakes but you should check into that as well. Going really fast with big power is no fun if you can't reign it in when you need to. I found out while going off of turn 1 at the local track how much more important it is to stop and be in control than it is to accelerate. Just something else to consider. You can probably count on going through more gas and spending more on insurance too. If you want to protect your investment you might want to have the car appraised and insured for replacement value. Nothing would suck ***** more than having some lowlife steal the machine you spent a pile of time and money on only to have the insurance company look up an 87 T2 in their "black book full of imaginary numbers" and tell you it's only worth $2000.

Does any of this help you? If you have the resources I say more power to you but if you are truly a "poor college student" I strongly suggest looking at other ways to increase the performance of your car. Simple things like bigger exhaust, a SuperAFC, manual boost controllers, etc. can be used to get better than stock performance that will have you kicking the tail of Mustang GT's, etc. Then when you get out of school and into that high paying job with lots of money to throw away you can have at it. This thing will be a money pit - trust me because I am there right now. Would you rather spend $15,000 on a 400 rwhp FC or would you rather pick up a nice FD for that same money? By the time you are done that is what you will be facing. I wish you luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm just an average Joe who is learning as well and I don't know everything but what I do know I will be more than willing to share. Good luck!

RX-7 GT

thats the longest damn post ive seen in my life

RX-7 GT

yo dude, why did you spend 13K$? give us a price break down. it shouldnt have cost you that much unless you got ripped off, or including the cost of your car?

SoloRacer

I'm including the initial purchase price of the car and the engine rebuild.

1987 RX7 Turbo
Mods: Streetported 1990 T2 Housings
3mm Apex Seals
HKS Powerflow Intake
Racing Beat Turbo Back Exhaust
Wolf 3D
720 cc secondary injectors
Malpassi Fuel Pressure Regulator
FD Fuel Pump
RPS Turbo Clutch
Permacool 16" electric fan
Trust/Greddy Front Strut Bar
Racing Beat Front and Rear Sway Bars
Racing Beat adjustable end links
Racing Beat DTSS eliminators
Racing Beat stainless brake lines
Cobra Imola 2 race seat
4 point Roll Cage
5 point camlock safety harness
Greddy 60mm Peak/Hold Boost and EGT gauges
Tokico Adjustable Struts
TID Mod
Removed ACV
Disabled Oil Metering Pump (running premix)

RX-7 GT

i understand now. i only figured 3k for my engine mods...of course i have a biz license

SoloRacer

You have to remember that I still haven't bought the turbo or front mount intercooler. I figure that I'm still $3000 to $4000 away from completing the project. I read the thread that Flaming Nos posted and the guy who made his "wish list" was reading from parts catalogs without understanding what was really neccesary. This is obvious because he completely disregards the engine management system which is probably the most important thing to get and understand - even before getting the turbo. I could have saved some money by doing the work entirely myself and there are some items such as the roll cage, racing seat and spare wheels and tires that are in the cost that would not be included in the turbo upgrade. The point I was trying to make is that a big single turbo is not a cheap affair and should not be entered into lightly. You can end up spending a ton more than you think and when you realize what you could have bought with that money (say an FD) your decisions may not look too smart.

rx713bt88

EASYEST WAY TO REPLACE STOCK TURBO.

Scott 89t2

how much power do you want? a full t04 turbo is for 4-500hp. that is a hell of a lot. an upgraded hybrid turbo will make over 300 and will cost less then $1000 and bolt straight in. still need to add fuel though.

scathcart

Listing this with an engine management system makes me wonder...
Why run an RRFPR if you have an EMS? It only makes tuning harder, decreases fuel flow from the pump, and puts excess wear on the pump.
If you are running bigger or extra fuel injectors, they can handle the extra fuel requirement.

Most people do NOT run a RRFPR with a EMS. A RRFPR is only to make up for fuel that can't be provided by the stock injectors.

easy p-cheesy

may have been long but it had a lot of information in it.

by the way you still haven't told me if you have a bigger picture of the car in your avitar.

2887s

SR Motorsports seems to have decent prices on a lot of the stuff you want.

jspecracer7

...agreed, you DON'T need a RR FPR if you are ALSO getting an EMS with larger injectors. The larger injectors will make up for the smaller injectors reaching higher duty cycles.