T04 Hybrid when do you see full boost?
10-23-03, 01:18 AM
#26
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by Rpeck
well, whats the solution my friend
well, whats the solution my friend
Are you sure you don't have any leaks? Something is way wrong here.
Nitrous would help with spool, I suppose, but you shouldn't need to go that route.
What are the full specs on your turbo? Compressor trim?
10-23-03, 01:23 AM
#27
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Really not sure till i talk to Bryan, it's one of his stage 3 hybrids.. and his site is down. I have tripple checked for leaks and the wastegate, I can post pic's if you want. But i don't hear the turbo spool until those numbers... so I assume it is not leaking, it seems to me it's not spooling! my exhaust is way loud, but I have been told I sould here the turbo over pretty much any exhaust.
I hit 278 max HP, but it was still going up on dyno sheet day 2 at 8k!!
I hit 278 max HP, but it was still going up on dyno sheet day 2 at 8k!!
10-23-03, 01:24 AM
#28
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by jreynish
large street port, stock otherwise engine wise,
microtech, 550 primaries 1600 cc secondaries, 255lph, rrfpr, a super modified hyrbid turbo, large custom FMIC at 4800rpm I can hit 21psi right to redline!
however I have about 10-15lbs from 2500-3500rpm.
so i think that you definitely have some issues with your turbos. you should be getting descent amount of boost at 3000rpm! at least 5-8psi!
large street port, stock otherwise engine wise,
microtech, 550 primaries 1600 cc secondaries, 255lph, rrfpr, a super modified hyrbid turbo, large custom FMIC at 4800rpm I can hit 21psi right to redline!
however I have about 10-15lbs from 2500-3500rpm.
so i think that you definitely have some issues with your turbos. you should be getting descent amount of boost at 3000rpm! at least 5-8psi!
Why run an rrfpr with a microtech? Just seems like it would make things a pain in the *** for tuning.
10-23-03, 01:34 AM
#30
scathcart, The reason I am running a rrfpr is because i have been having issues with fuel pumps... did the rewire sent two pumps back... and i did it for "safety reasons" right as of yet she is not dyno tunned yet... when i tune her I might remove the rrfpr depending on the tunners suggestions. Right now it is just there because it is a bumper zone.
10-23-03, 01:38 AM
#31
sorry about the turbo,
I am very grey on what exactly was done, however I do know that the stock exhaust section of the turbo was cut and machined and was welded to another manifold, as to avoid the ext WG, and the compressor side is t04e, as for the exaust side not entirely certain however I do know that the exaust wheel is also a t04 wheel, that is why the housing was "modified".
sorry if i could give more I would
I am very grey on what exactly was done, however I do know that the stock exhaust section of the turbo was cut and machined and was welded to another manifold, as to avoid the ext WG, and the compressor side is t04e, as for the exaust side not entirely certain however I do know that the exaust wheel is also a t04 wheel, that is why the housing was "modified".
sorry if i could give more I would
10-23-03, 01:41 AM
#32
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Originally posted by jreynish
sorry about the turbo,
I am very grey on what exactly was done, however I do know that the stock exhaust section of the turbo was cut and machined and was welded to another manifold, as to avoid the ext WG, and the compressor side is t04e, as for the exaust side not entirely certain however I do know that the exaust wheel is also a t04 wheel, that is why the housing was "modified".
sorry if i could give more I would
sorry about the turbo,
I am very grey on what exactly was done, however I do know that the stock exhaust section of the turbo was cut and machined and was welded to another manifold, as to avoid the ext WG, and the compressor side is t04e, as for the exaust side not entirely certain however I do know that the exaust wheel is also a t04 wheel, that is why the housing was "modified".
sorry if i could give more I would
for those PSI numbers 
10-23-03, 01:45 AM
#33
i know, but i cannot provide exact maps or details on the turbo iself as I did not modyfy it and after waiting a year and paying the amount I did I didn't care to hear from him. That is why i am sorry that i cannot provide exact details of the turbo.
But most likely next fall I will be selling it to install a full t04RR setup... the turbo is in garage brand new in box with Tial WG. just need manifols... but first want to max out this turbo.
But as to your situation, I do think that it seems that you aren't getting what you should be out of them. and it seems that it is for more than one turbo of the same setup... I would ask questions of the builder if i were you!
But most likely next fall I will be selling it to install a full t04RR setup... the turbo is in garage brand new in box with Tial WG. just need manifols... but first want to max out this turbo.
But as to your situation, I do think that it seems that you aren't getting what you should be out of them. and it seems that it is for more than one turbo of the same setup... I would ask questions of the builder if i were you!
10-23-03, 03:16 AM
#34
I still maintain the theory that Rpeck (and others w/ hybrid turbos and stock IC and intake manifolds and large streetport) has such a pressure drop across the restrictive stock IC and intake that the large hybrid compressor is struggling to spool against a relatively high turbo outlet pressure, but pressure at the engine has dropped from flowing through the restrictive IC and intake and then struggling to pressurize a large ported engine.
Jreynish has a much less restrictive large FMIC and decent boost response.
The higher volume of the long FMIC piping and large core can actually help boost not only by supporting more total airflow, but by also letting the turbo spool up its inertia in a very low compressor backpressure system (because it takes time for it to fill all the IC piping and core up to pressure.) The same theory is used in a 3rd gen sequential 2ndary turbo to prespool it.
I did a ton of intake work (constantly increasing pipe diameters away from turbo, carefully chosen manifolds and IC, everything ported, knife edged, polished, matchported, etc) to minimize pressure drop on my set-up and the spool-up was INSANE!
On the "stock" BNR Stage 4 (has larger "O" trim T4 exhaust wheel as opposed to smaller stock clipped HT 18 wheel which is T3 sized) it boost crept to from 6.5psi wastegate setting to over 20psi before 3,500rpm the 1st time I boosted.
Now it has "O" trim clipped 15 degrees (and probably going back for more clip) and an external 60mm wastegate in a most modified housing and it still boost creeps. Now boosting 2psi by 2,000rpm and full WG boost (17psi) by 3,500rpm and boost creep to over 20psi after 7,000rpm.
I am not stating all this to brag (I've done enough of that already ), but rather to drive home the fact that the key difference I see between Rpeck's, Jreynish's and my boost response certainly seems to corespond to the increase in intake flow capabilitiy of the IC and inlet manifold.
Rpeck's Hybrid exhaust side is by far the most restrictive of the 3 set-ups, so he should be seeing the fastest boost response if all other factors were equal.
Jreynish has a much less restrictive large FMIC and decent boost response.
The higher volume of the long FMIC piping and large core can actually help boost not only by supporting more total airflow, but by also letting the turbo spool up its inertia in a very low compressor backpressure system (because it takes time for it to fill all the IC piping and core up to pressure.) The same theory is used in a 3rd gen sequential 2ndary turbo to prespool it.
I did a ton of intake work (constantly increasing pipe diameters away from turbo, carefully chosen manifolds and IC, everything ported, knife edged, polished, matchported, etc) to minimize pressure drop on my set-up and the spool-up was INSANE!
On the "stock" BNR Stage 4 (has larger "O" trim T4 exhaust wheel as opposed to smaller stock clipped HT 18 wheel which is T3 sized) it boost crept to from 6.5psi wastegate setting to over 20psi before 3,500rpm the 1st time I boosted.
Now it has "O" trim clipped 15 degrees (and probably going back for more clip) and an external 60mm wastegate in a most modified housing and it still boost creeps. Now boosting 2psi by 2,000rpm and full WG boost (17psi) by 3,500rpm and boost creep to over 20psi after 7,000rpm.
I am not stating all this to brag (I've done enough of that already
), but rather to drive home the fact that the key difference I see between Rpeck's, Jreynish's and my boost response certainly seems to corespond to the increase in intake flow capabilitiy of the IC and inlet manifold.Rpeck's Hybrid exhaust side is by far the most restrictive of the 3 set-ups, so he should be seeing the fastest boost response if all other factors were equal.
10-23-03, 08:50 AM
#35
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As mentioned in my previous reply to this thread.. I am running a stock intercooler with my hybrid and am not experiencing any problems with my boost response .. 15 psi by a little under 3500 rpm... the only diffrence is that I'm running a stock s5 exhaust side and wheel..
10-23-03, 10:23 AM
#36
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A FMIC is in the works for me.... maybe as soon as next week, I just hope dumping more money at the problem creates a solution. Cause if I spend another $1200 on this and it turns out the same, I will be bitter.
10-23-03, 11:04 AM
#37
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I sent my turbo into brian as well after it blew. I got a stage 3 with the 60-1 compressor. i am in the process of reinstalling that along with my fmic. once i get my car on the road i'll post what i'm getting for power. before i had just a stock t04 hybrid and i was making full boost no later than 4000. i'm hopeing for the same results even with the upgrade. i dont see why it shouldn't build full boost much later than that. there has to be something seriously wrong if you are only making 2lbs at around 4 - 4500.
robert
robert
10-23-03, 01:32 PM
#38
Blue TII,
Yes, I did not take that into concideration, however do you not think that Rpeck should not be at least getting stock boost levels? As he is running the stock exhaust side "slightly modified" and stock intercooler and intake? He should in theory be seing stock boost response and levels at the very least.
Yes, I did not take that into concideration, however do you not think that Rpeck should not be at least getting stock boost levels? As he is running the stock exhaust side "slightly modified" and stock intercooler and intake? He should in theory be seing stock boost response and levels at the very least.
10-23-03, 06:46 PM
#40
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smirk.. if you guys feel that it is your BNR turbos that might be the cause of your lack of boost or power but don' tknow what to do about it now, I'll be more than glad to trade you my hybrid setup for yours
10-23-03, 07:44 PM
#41
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No thanks
What kind of hybrid do you have anyway?
I have lack of boost because I am going easy on the motor right now.
I'm sure once I free up the exhaust and dyno it it will boost fine.
What kind of hybrid do you have anyway?
I have lack of boost because I am going easy on the motor right now.
I'm sure once I free up the exhaust and dyno it it will boost fine.
10-23-03, 11:40 PM
#42
As mentioned in my previous reply to this thread.. I am running a stock intercooler with my hybrid and am not experiencing any problems with my boost response .. 15 psi by a little under 3500 rpm... the only diffrence is that I'm running a stock s5 exhaust side and wheel..
I did read that. A couple things I came up w/ that may be different than Rpeck's set-up and may be contributing to your faster spool are
Smaller street port? Rpeck did a large RB streetport- I don't know if yours is as large. R-peck, did you port the exhaust ports at all?
Also, your smaller V trim compressor coupled w/ stock exhaust side on your set-up should spool fast due to being more restrictive on the exhaust side, less mass on the compressor side and and possibly the smaller compressor wheel can spool easier against the manifold pressure it creates as there is less mechanical disadvantage (leverage) slowing it.
do you not think that Rpeck should not be at least getting stock boost levels? As he is running the stock exhaust side "slightly modified" and stock intercooler and intake?
I would think his set-up should boost creep like a ****! My theory is just that- a theory. I hope Rpeck does not spend a lot of money on upgraded ic/intake an have it be a waste- but it is a very real possibility. I used junkyard IC and piping for my H-mount set-up and hours of my time, but- it was cheap. I recommend Rpeck do the same- if he can port and rebuild his engine he can build a mean IC and port an intake!
I did read that. A couple things I came up w/ that may be different than Rpeck's set-up and may be contributing to your faster spool are
Smaller street port? Rpeck did a large RB streetport- I don't know if yours is as large. R-peck, did you port the exhaust ports at all?
Also, your smaller V trim compressor coupled w/ stock exhaust side on your set-up should spool fast due to being more restrictive on the exhaust side, less mass on the compressor side and and possibly the smaller compressor wheel can spool easier against the manifold pressure it creates as there is less mechanical disadvantage (leverage) slowing it.
do you not think that Rpeck should not be at least getting stock boost levels? As he is running the stock exhaust side "slightly modified" and stock intercooler and intake?
I would think his set-up should boost creep like a ****! My theory is just that- a theory. I hope Rpeck does not spend a lot of money on upgraded ic/intake an have it be a waste- but it is a very real possibility. I used junkyard IC and piping for my H-mount set-up and hours of my time, but- it was cheap. I recommend Rpeck do the same- if he can port and rebuild his engine he can build a mean IC and port an intake!
10-24-03, 12:27 AM
#43
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I was also one of the ones experiencing the ungoddly amounts of boost lag. I know that a large portion is due to exhaust leak. However, I am still worried that with my large streetport, it will not spool very well. I have stock s5 hot side with supposedly just a comp. wheel upgrade(not sure trim or anything) that was done by turbonetics I believe. I did port out and knife-edge everything that I could in the intake tract, so the stock ic is the only restrictive part left. If the fixing the exhaust leaks don't remedy the situation, I guess I will just have to go with a larger ic as you guys suggested.
10-24-03, 12:41 AM
#44
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I did the RB large templates on both my intake and exhaust.
Well today i ordered a spearco core for my FMIC. I plan to buy a new welder tommorow and do my own piping. I hope this improves things, but if nothing else I am getting a welder out of it
I will see how things go, I don't assume it could be any worse. I will keep you all posted after I get this all setup, might be a couple of weeks before I am done .. but if anyone else has questions or idea's by all means keep them comming.
-Robert
Well today i ordered a spearco core for my FMIC. I plan to buy a new welder tommorow and do my own piping. I hope this improves things, but if nothing else I am getting a welder out of it
I will see how things go, I don't assume it could be any worse. I will keep you all posted after I get this all setup, might be a couple of weeks before I am done .. but if anyone else has questions or idea's by all means keep them comming. -Robert
10-24-03, 04:08 AM
#45
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i have similar problems!
i got a t04, stock intercooler, microtech, no porting
max boost is 10 with the standard wastegate and it doesn't fully hit until 4-5k rpm in THIRD gear
will never get past 5 psi on first and second.
i got a t04, stock intercooler, microtech, no porting
max boost is 10 with the standard wastegate and it doesn't fully hit until 4-5k rpm in THIRD gear
will never get past 5 psi on first and second.
10-24-03, 07:37 AM
#46
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Something is wrong with either the installs or the turbo's to get boost lag like that, I have the full T04e with large 1.15 exhaust side, and I hit 12 psi in first gear, its not the streetport, I have done a large streetport to my motor, and it greatly improves spool.. Sounds to me like problems with the bushings in the turbo, massive exhaust leaks, or the wastegate is stuck open...
The stock intercooler is probably one of the best flowing stock intercoolers ever made by the way...Max
The stock intercooler is probably one of the best flowing stock intercoolers ever made by the way...Max
10-24-03, 09:43 AM
#47
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here's a quickie question.. how easily does your compressor wheel spin when you flick it with your finger?? if I flick my compressor wheel around with my finger, it will make several revolutions for about 5-6 seconds before it settles down and stops..
10-24-03, 10:39 AM
#48
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Spins real easy, feels solid. No play, no leaks, no odd colors, smells, scents, looks, or feels. I took a few pictures the other day .. I can post some pics later. It feels very balanced .. there is some resistance.