Synthetic in a rotary?
03-12-09, 12:04 PM
#1
87rx7ftw
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Synthetic in a rotary?
i got a 87 not that long ago so im kinda new to alot of this stuff. i wanted to know if putting synthetic oil like royal purple etc. would be good for these? as far as i know i hear its good and its bad at the same time. idk what to belive. can some of you guys help me out. thanks.
03-12-09, 12:13 PM
#3
as long as it burns clean, then synthetics are fine. but they are pricier.
mazda does not recommend them for use in the rotary engine but i read that long term use of synthetics have worked just fine. even in racing they have used synthetics in the rotary.
so its all up to choice really.
mazda does not recommend them for use in the rotary engine but i read that long term use of synthetics have worked just fine. even in racing they have used synthetics in the rotary.
so its all up to choice really.
03-12-09, 01:22 PM
#4
The Doctor
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It's all based on personal opinion. I've put both in my 7, it all depends on how good I feel like treating my car when I change the oil.
Most people will recommend Castrol GTX 20W-50 for non-syn. I've used that, walmart brand oil, royal purple, Idemitsu, Q Power and a few others. I've never really felt a difference. Some just get dirtier faster than others.
Only difference I've noticed is that synthetic smokes a little more when in high rpm.
Most people will recommend Castrol GTX 20W-50 for non-syn. I've used that, walmart brand oil, royal purple, Idemitsu, Q Power and a few others. I've never really felt a difference. Some just get dirtier faster than others.
Only difference I've noticed is that synthetic smokes a little more when in high rpm.
03-12-09, 01:25 PM
#5
How about fully biodegradable animal fat based motor oil!
http://www.getg.com/index.php
I've actually used Royal Purple for years. Synthetic is fine. There are many good oils today though conventional included.
http://www.getg.com/index.php
I've actually used Royal Purple for years. Synthetic is fine. There are many good oils today though conventional included.
03-12-09, 01:30 PM
#7
Green Flameless
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The reason that Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic is because cheap synthetics can leave ash behind when burnt (and oil is injected directly into your engine to lubricate it). This causes a build up of carbon which can eventually lead to seal failure.
They can't say "Only using synthetics from name brand places is fine" or whatever, so it's easier to say "don't use synthetics at all."
So short answer: If you're going to use cheap stuff, use conventional, if you want to use good stuff, use synthetic. I use good conventional oil, because I'm kinda religious about oil changes anyway, and I don't think it's going to break down too badly in the 3000 miles it's going to be in my car..
Cheers!
They can't say "Only using synthetics from name brand places is fine" or whatever, so it's easier to say "don't use synthetics at all."
So short answer: If you're going to use cheap stuff, use conventional, if you want to use good stuff, use synthetic. I use good conventional oil, because I'm kinda religious about oil changes anyway, and I don't think it's going to break down too badly in the 3000 miles it's going to be in my car..
Cheers!
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03-12-09, 01:36 PM
#8
Pistons are gay
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You know nothing obviously ...Quality synthetics such as redline, royal purple, and mobil1, are perfectly fine for rotary's. Don't forget synthetics have evolved since these cars were first brought off the production line. I run redline and only redline oil in my t2, nothing else.
03-12-09, 01:40 PM
#9
yota experienced mazda no
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You know nothing obviously ...Quality synthetics such as redline, royal purple, and mobil1, are perfectly fine for rotary's. Don't forget synthetics have evolved since these cars were first brought off the production line. I run redline and only redline oil in my t2, nothing else.
03-12-09, 02:40 PM
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from what ive gathered in my many searches on the same subject...
the only reason synthetic is bad is because it does not lubricate as well when burned in the combustion chamber. otherwise its fine. so if you eliminate your OMP and start premixing i would say theres no reason to not use synthetic.
im keeping my OMP because premixing is for lawnmowers. thus in order to switch to synthetics i need to switch to a remote oil reservoir feeding the OMP.
http://www.jhbperformance.com/products.php
this looks promising but i dont have one. anyone used a system such as this? any comments?
the only reason synthetic is bad is because it does not lubricate as well when burned in the combustion chamber. otherwise its fine. so if you eliminate your OMP and start premixing i would say theres no reason to not use synthetic.
im keeping my OMP because premixing is for lawnmowers. thus in order to switch to synthetics i need to switch to a remote oil reservoir feeding the OMP.
Oil Metering System
We have designed a system that allows the use of the stock oil metering pump (OMP) to inject premium 2 stroke oil into the engine. Good quality 2 stroke oil is designed to burn clean and properly lubricate the internals of the combustion chamber in ways that far exceed conventional motor oils. This system allows the use of synthetic oils in the oil pan since this oil is no longer being injected into the engine. This kit includes an engine oil supply block off place, an oil fitting for the OMP, an oil line and an oil reservoir.
* Oil Metering System Conversion Kit $45 ea
We have designed a system that allows the use of the stock oil metering pump (OMP) to inject premium 2 stroke oil into the engine. Good quality 2 stroke oil is designed to burn clean and properly lubricate the internals of the combustion chamber in ways that far exceed conventional motor oils. This system allows the use of synthetic oils in the oil pan since this oil is no longer being injected into the engine. This kit includes an engine oil supply block off place, an oil fitting for the OMP, an oil line and an oil reservoir.
* Oil Metering System Conversion Kit $45 ea
this looks promising but i dont have one. anyone used a system such as this? any comments?
03-12-09, 03:33 PM
#12
The Firestarter
i believe that system is for those who have Electronic OMP, which S4s do not have.
You can use certain synthetics and be fine without doing a conversion, as many are petrol based and burn correctly. Castrol GTX 40w50 is by far my brand of choice for oil. But i have used royal purple and mobil1, never had a problem with either one.
You can also clear up some carbon build up by redlining your engine once a day or once every 2 days.
You can use certain synthetics and be fine without doing a conversion, as many are petrol based and burn correctly. Castrol GTX 40w50 is by far my brand of choice for oil. But i have used royal purple and mobil1, never had a problem with either one.
You can also clear up some carbon build up by redlining your engine once a day or once every 2 days.
03-12-09, 03:38 PM
#14
Richard Sohn developed an adapter to use an external reservoir years ago so I'm not sure what JHB is claiming to have developed as they definitely didn't develop the adapter to do this. Here's a link. Scroll to the bottom for pictures. You want the "adapter" not the "adjuster". I have one on my engine. They have them for all rotaries.
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm
03-12-09, 03:44 PM
#15
The Firestarter
the problem doesn't rely on the lubrication but the fear of excess carbon build up from oils that do not burn properly. Unlike piston engine Rotaries must burn a certain amount of oil naturally. If they do not burn or inject properly, they tend to gunk up certain components and some cases lead to seal failure during prolonged use of an incompatible synthetic oil.
03-12-09, 03:47 PM
#16
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^^
thats more like it. thats baller as hell. thanks for the info. i recommend something like this for anyone who has a rotary.
EDIT: rotary god's post is what im referring to
thats more like it. thats baller as hell. thanks for the info. i recommend something like this for anyone who has a rotary.
EDIT: rotary god's post is what im referring to
03-12-09, 03:54 PM
#17
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
This subject has been covered countless times, including in the FAQ for FC sticky thread that is found not only at the top of this section but at the top of the new member technical section as well. Here is a link in case you can't find the top of this section or the top of the new member technical section: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/frequently-asked-questions-2nd-generation-rx-7-faq-fc-494667/
You always want to read the FAQ for FC sticky thread before posting. Many of the commonly asked questions (such as the one this thread was started with) are covered there.
If the original poster (and some of the replies that are clearly wrong and misleading) had read the FAQ for FC sticky thread before posting, they would have seen this:
Thread closed. Covered countless times and there enough incorrect or misleading replies such as LaSkt9's in this thread to confuse anyone.
You always want to read the FAQ for FC sticky thread before posting. Many of the commonly asked questions (such as the one this thread was started with) are covered there.
If the original poster (and some of the replies that are clearly wrong and misleading) had read the FAQ for FC sticky thread before posting, they would have seen this:
Originally Posted by FAQ for FC
Can I use synthetic oils in my Rotary engined car?
Yes and no. Mazda officially does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in rotary engines, however, long term street and racing use has shown that the better synthetics (Redline, Amsoil, Neo, Royal Purple, Mobil1) are perfectly fine to use in a rotary engine, and will generally result in a 1 to 2% horsepower gain. However use of poor quality synthetics (like Valvoline, Castrol Syntec, Havoline, Etc) will result in build up due to high ash content left from these oils when they are burned. It is believed that is why Mazda did not recommend synthetics, because the couldn't pick favorites.
Other notes:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.
Most Synthetic Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomer's, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
Yes and no. Mazda officially does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in rotary engines, however, long term street and racing use has shown that the better synthetics (Redline, Amsoil, Neo, Royal Purple, Mobil1) are perfectly fine to use in a rotary engine, and will generally result in a 1 to 2% horsepower gain. However use of poor quality synthetics (like Valvoline, Castrol Syntec, Havoline, Etc) will result in build up due to high ash content left from these oils when they are burned. It is believed that is why Mazda did not recommend synthetics, because the couldn't pick favorites.
Other notes:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.
Most Synthetic Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomer's, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
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