SWEET - upgraded TMIC (intercooler) in the US
#1
knowledge junkie
Thread Starter
SWEET - upgraded TMIC (intercooler) in the US
I was talking to our new sponser BNR about an upgraded top mount intercooler.
Looks like they're going through with it
Front Mount may give you cooler air, but top mount is nearly as efficient when the car is moving.
And there's nothing like a bolt on/drop in that actually helps quite a bit
Here's their page:
http://www.lourdsmusic.com/bnrsupercars/ic.htm
Looks like they're going through with it
Front Mount may give you cooler air, but top mount is nearly as efficient when the car is moving.
And there's nothing like a bolt on/drop in that actually helps quite a bit
Here's their page:
http://www.lourdsmusic.com/bnrsupercars/ic.htm
#3
10 lb. boost, 5lb. bag
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Doesn't help a lick when if car is moving. It's a low pressure area on the hoodm and all the fans and misting in the world won't change the fact that TMIC's suck, especially sitting on top of a hot as hell rotary. For that price I would get an FMIC instead. The current craze in Japan is a horizontal mounted cooler in the engine bay, with individual ducting for it and the radiator... that would be interesting because it has nice short runs to reduce lag, but also gets a nice fresh air stream
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#10
Lives on the Forum
You ever priced ARC stuff???  I'd bet that's over $1,500US!
Why you messing with inferior top-mounts when a GReddy V-spec BIG-*** front-mount is selling street price for UNDER $1,000?!?!
-Ted
Why you messing with inferior top-mounts when a GReddy V-spec BIG-*** front-mount is selling street price for UNDER $1,000?!?!
-Ted
#12
knowledge junkie
Thread Starter
I believe FMIC have their disadvantages as well ....
(correct me if I'm off BOOSTD7 / RETED)
- adding turbo lag
- decreasing the turbo's efficiency/volume at the same PSI (which is partially offset by the cooler air charge and increasing the boost).
- requires moving the radiator
- adds weight (move the battery to compensate)
- requires an upgraded radiator as airflow to the OEM radiator is hampered by the FMIC
and most of all - for purists an upgraded TMIC is a bolt on that doesn't require cutting/moving/modding anything.
(correct me if I'm off BOOSTD7 / RETED)
- adding turbo lag
- decreasing the turbo's efficiency/volume at the same PSI (which is partially offset by the cooler air charge and increasing the boost).
- requires moving the radiator
- adds weight (move the battery to compensate)
- requires an upgraded radiator as airflow to the OEM radiator is hampered by the FMIC
and most of all - for purists an upgraded TMIC is a bolt on that doesn't require cutting/moving/modding anything.
#13
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Originally posted by duehuynh
so if tmic sucks, why other cars like WRX uses it?
what about the porche turbo?
so if tmic sucks, why other cars like WRX uses it?
what about the porche turbo?
#16
The WRX has a low pressure zone infront of the scoop.. That is why it works..
A upgraded top mount /w a new hood would be good.. for a stock turbo car.. but for an upgraded turbo you would be better off going with a front mount...
-Zach
A upgraded top mount /w a new hood would be good.. for a stock turbo car.. but for an upgraded turbo you would be better off going with a front mount...
-Zach
#17
knowledge junkie
Thread Starter
cymfc3s,
Never said the FMIC didn't look good
Wish I had a corporate website to stick my pics on for free hosting
I'll just get my pressure gague out and measure the hoodscoop....
all kidding asside I'm assuming Mazda's setup forces air in similarly to WRX. It does shove enough air through the TMIC that an upgrade would be effective and a kit upgrade would be a no brainer.
-- vaughnc
Never said the FMIC didn't look good
Wish I had a corporate website to stick my pics on for free hosting
I'll just get my pressure gague out and measure the hoodscoop....
all kidding asside I'm assuming Mazda's setup forces air in similarly to WRX. It does shove enough air through the TMIC that an upgrade would be effective and a kit upgrade would be a no brainer.
-- vaughnc
Last edited by vaughnc; 03-21-02 at 05:40 PM.
#18
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Whats up everyone. I thought I explained how to prove that there is enough air going through the core a while back?
Test to see if your intercooler is getting enough air to cool the intercooler..
1. Start the car up and let the intercooler heat soak.
2. Put your hand on the intercooler core and feel how hot it is.
3. Get in the car and drive it for 2 or 3 minutes at 40+mph.
4. Stop the car, pop the hood, then feel the core again.
The air duct is doing its job! This low pressure stuff doesn't prevent the air duct from working. You say there is a vacume above a certain MPH? And how come the intercooler is cooler than before? You say that the air come beneith the intercooler? then the air would be hot! There is lots of ai getting throught the core! If you don't believe me, go take the test! No more talking physics... I took that crap in college.
later all!
Bryan
Test to see if your intercooler is getting enough air to cool the intercooler..
1. Start the car up and let the intercooler heat soak.
2. Put your hand on the intercooler core and feel how hot it is.
3. Get in the car and drive it for 2 or 3 minutes at 40+mph.
4. Stop the car, pop the hood, then feel the core again.
The air duct is doing its job! This low pressure stuff doesn't prevent the air duct from working. You say there is a vacume above a certain MPH? And how come the intercooler is cooler than before? You say that the air come beneith the intercooler? then the air would be hot! There is lots of ai getting throught the core! If you don't believe me, go take the test! No more talking physics... I took that crap in college.
later all!
Bryan
#19
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Like I said before, DO NOT bother with a upgraded TMIC, just get a TMIC, greddy makes a nice model for fairly cheap (compared to some others), blitz makes a nice one, or do it right and get one custom built w/ some custom piping (probly same or cheaper in price for same or better performance).
Unless for some reason you cannot fit an FMIC in (theres most likely a way to fit one in)
Yes FMIC's have more lag to a very small point over TMIC's on account of them being directly over the compressor and intake of engine.
However it is meant to TAKE AWAY HEAT. Not add it on account of being DIRECTLY overtop of the hot rotary engine. It is also in a low pressure zone. Ditch the bitch, go for a very efficient FMIC that looks good and helps your boost.
And FMIC does not have a small amount of air redirected down onto the engine. It is rammed all the way head on, much bigger face for much more air.
Get a cowl hood and cool down your engine much more.
If you want to increase lag so much just route your compressor straight into the intake. Right there, no intercooler lag but more heat, well not too much, Although I'm sure your compressor heats up the wheel spinning at about 50,000RPM (I guess, I have no clue on what it actually spins at)
Unless for some reason you cannot fit an FMIC in (theres most likely a way to fit one in)
Yes FMIC's have more lag to a very small point over TMIC's on account of them being directly over the compressor and intake of engine.
However it is meant to TAKE AWAY HEAT. Not add it on account of being DIRECTLY overtop of the hot rotary engine. It is also in a low pressure zone. Ditch the bitch, go for a very efficient FMIC that looks good and helps your boost.
And FMIC does not have a small amount of air redirected down onto the engine. It is rammed all the way head on, much bigger face for much more air.
Get a cowl hood and cool down your engine much more.
If you want to increase lag so much just route your compressor straight into the intake. Right there, no intercooler lag but more heat, well not too much, Although I'm sure your compressor heats up the wheel spinning at about 50,000RPM (I guess, I have no clue on what it actually spins at)
Last edited by Node; 03-21-02 at 06:48 PM.
#20
The stock hood scoop looks good, don't get me wrong but I don't think alot of air flows into it, the design just isnt right. FMIC is the way to go, unless you could get a mega sweet deal on a TM.
#21
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Originally posted by FEARED7
You say that the air come beneith the intercooler? then the air would be hot! There is lots of ai getting throught the core! If you don't believe me, go take the test!
You say that the air come beneith the intercooler? then the air would be hot! There is lots of ai getting throught the core! If you don't believe me, go take the test!
As for airflow at high speed, look at the cross-sectional area of the scoop and tell me how that can compare to the opening under the bumper.
Yes the intercooler works, but it's not nearly as effective at cooling as it would be out front. It's just a typical mass-production compromise.
#22
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I saw a very interesting IC set-up on an FC the other day that addresses most of the compromises of both the stock mounting position and the traditional front mount. The car had a TO4 and external wastegate, and had a custom ~65mm thick IC mounted in the location of the stock radiator. It was about the same size as the stock radiator too. A custom 3-row radiator (stock width and height) was then mounted on top of the IC like a sandwich. There was room for this because the stock fan and shroud had been replaced by a 16” thermofan. (The stock radiator might work fine, but this guy had plans for even more power!) The battery was in the boot, the A/C was gone and the PS pump had been lowered by a custom mounting bracket. This gave heaps of room for the very short and direct runs of 2½” HPC’d pipe to and from the IC. The only thing that needed attention on this car was ensuring none of the incoming air leaked around the sides of the coolers, but that’d be easy to fix. So we have short, straight pipe runs, no metal cutting, no heat soak, a much bigger IC and you can’t see it from the front if stealth is your thing! I think this is pretty much the ideal set-up for these cars.
#23
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My Top Mount is working pretty good, granted I don't have as much power as some of you guys but my FC is putting out 300 FWHP with the stock TMIC and I'm not having any engine problems at all. 11 to 12 PSI of Boost on the HKS SPORT TURBO UPGRADE. I'm looking foward to the UPGRADED TMIC if it will work even better then stock, I just don't want no FMIC near my radiator!
#24
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EVERYBODY READ THIS!
Intercooler theory
It'll help you understand why your TMIC won't be working as well as you might think it is.
Intercooler theory
It'll help you understand why your TMIC won't be working as well as you might think it is.
#25
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by vaughnc
- adding turbo lag
- adding turbo lag
- decreasing the turbo's efficiency/volume at the same PSI (which is partially offset by the cooler air charge and increasing the boost).
- requires moving the radiator
- adds weight (move the battery to compensate)
- requires an upgraded radiator as airflow to the OEM radiator is hampered by the FMIC
and most of all - for purists an upgraded TMIC is a bolt on that doesn't require cutting/moving/modding anything.
The top scoop of the FC is a very low pressure zone on the FC.  Any doubts, go check the airflow pressure diagram in the Jack Yamaguchi 2nd gen RX-7 book.  I believe there's an online pic floating around too.
Yes, an upgrade TMIC is a very efficient means of intercooling.  I'm planning to run 20+psi on a big 60-1 (minimum) to GT-TA45 Garrett in the near future.  I'm hoping 500hp to the wheels or break the motor into pieces (to test out the dowel theory).  The TMIC just won't cut it in my application...
-Ted