I'm on a road trip right now several hundred miles away from home in my 87 T2. Yesterday, when getting on the highway, I noticed a subtle vibration that wasn't there before. It's almost inaudible with the windows down, but with the windows up at about 60mph it sounds like there's a quiet moped or something in my car. You can't feel the vibrating, you can only hear it. It is completely speed dependent and it is independent of both braking and clutching and throttling. After about a half hour or 45 minutes of highway driving it actually went away.

Today I jacked the car up and there was a tiny bit of play in the front tires when tugging on them at the top and bottom. The driver's side has a tiny bit more play than the passenger's side. Side to side play seems nonexistant. I'd guess the driver's side play to be a quarter inch or less... hard to measure that sort of thing. So, I'm thinking my wheel bearings may have gotten to a point where they're causing this vibration. Does that sound accurate?

I've also checked the back tires and can't get any play out of them at all, and the driveshaft looks the way it's always looked and doesn't seem to budge just from grabbing it with my hand and trying to push it around. (I realize that may not be an adequate push... but thought I'd add the detail anyway.) My tires are also quite old, not bald, but old.

My main question is that if this vibration is one or both of my front wheel bearings, is it safe for me to complete my road trip (about 750 more miles of it) or is this considered a huge safety issue that needs to be fixed right away? I'd really rather not try to do this on the road, especially since I only have some of my tools with me and haven't done a wheel bearing before. I'm confident I can do it but with the initial learning process it'll take a while and really mess my trip up.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

yeah, sounds like the wheel bearings. if you have up and down movement thats usually the cause. side to side is usually tie rods. as for how much longer they can last its all up to the bearing. ive seen them go for 10k+ miles and ive seen then go out in under 100. kinda a chance kinda thing. if the noise gets worse then they are going out faster.

 

Thanks for the reply. When they do decide to fail (if they do before I can get home and change them, that is), it sounds like it'll get gradually worse and I'll at least have enough warning to get it to a garage somewhere?

 

I'll also mention that I put the rear of the car up on jackstands and started the car and looked at the tires spinning. The driver's side rear tire had a tiny bit of asymmetry to the rotation, and I think the tire may be seated slightly askew on the rim. I'm kind of doubting that that could have happened in the last day or so though... seems like it might have been that way for a long time without my noticing.

 

I thought up-down (12 o'clock, 6o'clock) movement was ball joints failing...

One quick thing to try (unless you don't have a torque wrench) is to make sure that your lug nuts are torqued to spec. Uneven torquing can cause vibration. Otherwise, maybe you lost a balancing weight...

http://www.aa1car.com/library/tvibes.htm

 

Well I'll be a son of a... my front left tire doesn't have a damn balancing weight on it and there's an outline of where the balancing weight seems to have been at one time. And I drove on some very bumpy roads just before noticing the vibration. Thanks Amur. Any idea how much it is to take a tire somewhere to get a weight put on and have it balanced?

 

Should be around $10 to rebalance - go find a Sears.

Top-bottom wobble is almost always the wheel bearing. Side-side wobble won't be the wheel bearing because the caliper prevent the hub from shaking in that direction. So side to side wobble will be the spindle moving and that is usually a tie-rod issue.

You can pop the grease cap off and tighten up the bearings a bit if there is play. If I recall correctly it takes a 25mm socket and a pair of pliers to remove and replace the cotter pin. Don't overtighten.

-b

 

Well thanks to you guys' advice I took the tire to a shop and got it rebalanced with a new weight for about $10. Glad that got noticed and taken care of... wonder how long it was like that.

Unfortunately the vibration is still there. There's also a metal-on-metal squeal that happens when turning with the wheel completely turned to the right, as in parking situations. I hope getting the tire done will at least take some stress off things... I may try to tighten the bearings as you suggest. (I'm always wary of causing unanticipated problems when doing new things though.) Hopefully it will simply not get any worse until I can get home and take care of it right. Thanks again everyone.

 

lots of options for noise and vibration...

but if there is play in the hub, it's best to snug it up a bit NOW, and it's very easy to do.

the nut is 23 mm, at least it is on my 5 bolt aluminum 88 hubs.

if you can deal with this NOW do it, then look into repacking the bearings soon,

it might save you a load of pain and cost later...

once the bearings are nicked up it's a lot more effort or money to replace them and the races or buy new hubs.

i see no mention of mileage, but don't u joins cause a little vibration too as they begin to fail?

safe travels
henry

 

Mileage is 117k. So, in order to tighten it, is it really as simple as taking the tire off, prying off the grease cover thing with a screwdriver, taking out the cotter pin and the retainer thingy, and tightening a nut? Is there anything I could possibly screw up in that process that isn't obvious?

 

yep it's that simple, and you could screw it up with effort.

just record how each piece is removed and positioned, do the sung down as described below.

infact once the grease cap is OFF, you can remount the wheel and still have total access to the nut for tensioning.

that way one can 'wiggle' the tire to check for play while tensioning.

IF you have torque wrench and 23 mm socket, torque it to 20 ft/lbs to re compress the bearing/race/hub assembly.

then spin the wheel 3-4 times forward to get every thing tucked in.

then back the nut of 1/6 of a turn (one FACE of the nut) that's enough to provide LOOSE without wobble.

replace the cotter pin over the star cap and check the tire for spin/play and feel for 'grinding or grittiness' in the movement.

all good ? tap the grease cap back on....

if NO torque wrench is handy, tight with the socket till FIRM...

spin the wheel 3 times forward to seat them.

now back the nut OFF till it JUST to the point of finger loose.

now tighten with your fingers as much as possible.

then add 1/3 of a turn with the wrench (2 faces of the hex nut)

and stop. add cap and cotter pin, check for play/looseness.

so the minimal tools are 3/8 or 1/2 inch rachet handle, 23 mm socket, wood block,

thin chisel or short flat screw driver, and a new cotter pin. and needle nose plyer to bend it.

block of wood to tap OUT the grease cap and then to tap IN the cap at the finish.

when it is time to fully remove the hub, inspect the bearings, clean re-grease and re install the rear/front bearings,

you only need to remove the brake caliper and rotor and hub...

it's all very easy and goes just like described in the haynes manual.

you need grease, brake cleaner spray, LOTS of rages, a 17 or 19 mm socket, and either a 12mm or 14 for the dust cap removal

large philips screw driver, fresh cotter pins and the tools already mentioned. also need a loop of wire (coat hanger) to hand the brake caliper.

the car must be supported on the frame rails or jack pinch points for this

i think some younggun here did a photo how to of the process...

henry

 

I'm off to buy a 23mm socket to try this out. I think all Advance may have is a short socket though. Do you know if a deep socket is required?

 

yes a short socket works fine.

in fact an open end wrench or boxed end 23 mm, or crowfoot extension works too, so does a large channel lock plier.

just remember the initial tightening is only 20 ft/lbs, then backed off.

the 87 t2 has stock rims?

ignore the bit about adjusting WITH the wheel on. that only applies to rims like the bbs with large removable center caps over the lugs.

still one can snug it down, pop the rim back on with 3 lugs, check 4 play, then go back and add the cover nut/pin and cap.

henry

 

Why does it get backed off?

I have to admit that I'm stupid and did the lazy thing and just went in there and tightened it up. A 15/16" socket I had fit very well, so I made it tight but not too tight with that and then just threw it back together and test drove it. The sound is a bit less, but still there. The nut was moveable with my fingers when I went in there. After my tightening there was no more play. I couldn't get the right wheel off without really hitting it hard, so I haven't done that one yet...

I do have a new sound now though. When I turn the wheel in either direction and make slow turns, I now get a squealing sound from the wheel on the outside of the turn. That is, if I have the wheels turned to the right, I get a squeal from the left front wheel. With the wheel all the way left, I get it from the front right. Sounds a bit like a combination of metal on metal and tire on asphalt. Any ideas about this?

Sorry for not following your instructions precisely yet. When I felt that nut as loose as it was and I was able to get rid of the play, I got eager to test it. It can still be done the way you say, I just haven't gotten to it yet and wanted to report these squeals. I do appreciate you taking the time to tell me the exact way.

 

don't confuse me with a skilled mechanic, and i don't play one on television.

there are several reasons to back it off, use finger tight+ or tighten to the specs listed in the haynes manual...

1. grease (and metal) expand as heated and needs space for this expansion, too tight= NO space, forcing the film layer to zero which is like no lube and bad.

2. too tight can lead to seizing of the bearings/race/spindle which is really bad too.

there are reports of wheels falling off from seizing (spindle sheering) although i suspect that is usually from a DRY hub

3. increased friction from too much resistance will overheat the hub, melt/expand the grease, blow the seal and foul the brake pads/rotors, also not good.

4. i'm sure there are other issues with OVER tightening that real mechanics can add...
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because roller bearings ROLL, it's virtually impossible to determine what is too tight, because the hub will turn even when tight/cold.

it's much easier to determine TOO LOOSE, because the mazda spec for 'play' is zero with preload set to 1.9 ft/lbs plus initial reading.

by backing off, then adjusting down to spec, there is room for grease and heat and so on.

it's confusing to me too, but based on thread pitch, backing off a fraction of a turn can be equated to a few 1000s of an inch of gap.

many front hubs allow for a larger fraction of an inch of play (like 1/16 or 1/8th) just imagine how hard that is too measure without a micrometer.

there are other threads here that discuss how to tighten correctly, measure end play, use a strain gauge to set pre load and so on...

i suspect these are in the archives or faqs.

the important thing is IF the hub has been sloppy a while,

at the first opportunity, it needs to be removed, bearings cleaned and inspected for damage and either re-greased or replaced with fresh seals and ...

(bearings, race and/or hubs)

and IF planning to diy things like this (really pretty easy to do) on the 7 a haynes manual is extremely useful.

henry

another thing to check with the squeal described is the power steering bits, fluid level and so on.

if the right wheel is so corroded to the hub that it won't come loose, try loosening the studs, then roll the car 3 feet, BEFORE jacking up...

and there might be lots of corrosion around the brake calipers/pads and rotors adding to the noise issue.

 

I should have mentioned that although my car has power steering, it had a leak when I got it and so I haven't bothered to leave a belt on it for the last 5-6 years since I got it. Maybe that's meaningful, maybe not...

Calipers and pads are pretty new. Well, by new I mean like four or five years, but there's probably 20k on them at most and they still look good.

Thanks for the description of the loosening importance. I will back it off a bit as you say.