Standalone ECU thoughts
05-16-13 | 10:32 AM
#26
Street price on the Sprint RE long flying lead kit is $890. All Haltech Platinum ECUs have a built-in 2.5 bar MAP sensor. That combined with the other factory sensors means you can install one without needing to purchase any additional sensors. The calibrations for the Mazda sensors are available in the Haltech software.
That said, I like to use the Haltech/GM coolant and air temp sensors. I simply like to use new where possible and it also allows me to use new connectors for those sensors since I don't have a source for new stock connectors for those two sensors.
The non-full-range TPS of the S4 is not a good option to use with any system. We always recommend swapping out the TPS and throttle body for the S5 versions for a bolt-in, full-range, linear combination. There are other, less expensive options that require fabrication that have been documented on this site. With the S4 TPS, you usually end up with a transient throttle (throttle pump) feature that works almost, but not quite, correctly.
The AEM EMS-4 is another, sub-$1000, option. ECU and flying lead harness coming in at about $990 street price.
PM me if you have any other specific questions.
That said, I like to use the Haltech/GM coolant and air temp sensors. I simply like to use new where possible and it also allows me to use new connectors for those sensors since I don't have a source for new stock connectors for those two sensors.
The non-full-range TPS of the S4 is not a good option to use with any system. We always recommend swapping out the TPS and throttle body for the S5 versions for a bolt-in, full-range, linear combination. There are other, less expensive options that require fabrication that have been documented on this site. With the S4 TPS, you usually end up with a transient throttle (throttle pump) feature that works almost, but not quite, correctly.
The AEM EMS-4 is another, sub-$1000, option. ECU and flying lead harness coming in at about $990 street price.
PM me if you have any other specific questions.
05-16-13 | 10:46 AM
#27
engine shell doesn't matter, the only thing you might consider if turboing the car and going for big power is the thick cast rear iron found on some J-spec series 5s.
there's no difference in porting between S4 and S5 between the turbo and non turbo engines, the only real difference to note is the lack of EGR on S5 which affects the S4 6 port plates. so if you built a s4 there isn't really a benefit of switching it to s5, the rotor compression differences are the biggest thing to consider.
the s5 parts usually are in better condition, that's one main benefit plus more response from compression.
there's no difference in porting between S4 and S5 between the turbo and non turbo engines, the only real difference to note is the lack of EGR on S5 which affects the S4 6 port plates. so if you built a s4 there isn't really a benefit of switching it to s5, the rotor compression differences are the biggest thing to consider.
the s5 parts usually are in better condition, that's one main benefit plus more response from compression.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-16-13 at 10:58 AM.
05-16-13 | 10:52 AM
#28
Reading this makes me really wish I had purchased all S5 plates instead of S4. Seriously wonder if it's even worth it to port, change throttle, and standalone just for a ported S4. The only way it would be worth it would be if I swap the rotors to S5 and use an S5 counter weight from the same engine. And large street port or bridge the motor. Makes me really regret building this engine. Would it be smarter to just go ahead and build one of the stock S4 n/a engines and just run that until I can build another motor, standalone and all that good stuff? Just getting quite crazy expensive to have an underpowered ported S4. Really regret my decisions in this build.
The only thing that makes a big difference is the electronics. You can put S5 electronics on an S4 engine. S5 engine are more closely related to FD engines which there is a lot more support for. All Ludwig was recommending was putting the S5 throttle body on your S4 motor to utilize the correct TPSensor needed.
EB Turbo
05-16-13 | 10:59 AM
#29
Those were some quick replies. I came back on to try and delete the last post because I forgot that the plan was to eventually go hybrid with the motor. That's why I decided to run S4 rotors on the 6 port engine. I chose to use the S4 irons and the whole rotating assembly from the original engine to the car. The Jspec rear would be a great addition but not neccessary for now. I'm using TII S4 housings to get rid of the exhaust baffle. Anyway that's the reasoning behind my decisions so far.
I'll look into the S5 upper but will it mate to the S4 LIM properly? If I understand correctly I need:
1) S5 modded throttle body
2) S5 TPS
3) S5 UIM
Is this correct?
I'll look into the S5 upper but will it mate to the S4 LIM properly? If I understand correctly I need:
1) S5 modded throttle body
2) S5 TPS
3) S5 UIM
Is this correct?
05-16-13 | 11:07 AM
#30
MECP Certified Installer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,176
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From: Mesquite, TX-DFW
You could have cut the baffles out with a plasma cutter. It's what i did to my S5 housings. Inconel is some hard ****, but with a little work...
As far as stand alone, I did some research on the megasquirt last night and that thing scares me.
As far as stand alone, I did some research on the megasquirt last night and that thing scares me.
05-16-13 | 11:12 AM
#31
Eh, I had two T II blocks laying around and just took the housings. Maded it easier. And IDK, the megasquirt seems tough but plenty have done it and I'm sure I'm just as qualified. It's the paying 2K for a standalone that scares me haha
05-18-13 | 10:44 AM
#32
Rotary $ > AMG $
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From: And the horse he rode in on...
Chris Ludwig from Ludwig Motorsports sent us these dyno charts from an Rtek7 equipped S5NA. The only mods on the 95k mile car is an RB header (factory primary cat still installed) and the Rtek7 Stage 2 Upgrade.
After tuning the car, it made 46 more HP at 6500 RPM, just from tuning fuel!
Show Dyno Charts
I'm guessing you could get alot of that with an SAFC2. On an N/A you don't have to worry so much about timing like you do with a Turbo.
Edit: Those dyno's have been the topic of much discussion. Thoughts are that in the first dyno, there may have been some issue other than the fuel tuning, like maybe the VDI didn't open on the first dyno. Chris Ludwig is highly respected, so I am not questioning his skills, integrity etc.
05-18-13 | 10:54 AM
#33
Retired Moderator, RIP
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From: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
But the Rtek is specific to engine,so if you decide to so to a Turbo application you are stuck with a Ecu that will not apply.
The Sprint RE being a Cheap solution to having a standalone is also capable as a Useable Ecu for BOTH applications.
So really why spend money twice.
I got the PS1000 and I changed engine setups and Instead of hacking the wiring,I kept the sub-harness and had another one made.I can run 2 setups if I choose to now.
I didn't have to sell an Ecu to get another one.
The Sprint RE being a Cheap solution to having a standalone is also capable as a Useable Ecu for BOTH applications.
So really why spend money twice.
I got the PS1000 and I changed engine setups and Instead of hacking the wiring,I kept the sub-harness and had another one made.I can run 2 setups if I choose to now.
I didn't have to sell an Ecu to get another one.
05-18-13 | 10:57 AM
#34
i would never show a dyno of an obviously faulty car and use it for a baseline of after tuning. their example fell on its face between 5500 and where the engine should have been making peak power which is beyond what they were even running the engine to.
05-18-13 | 11:11 AM
#35
I just recently Purchased a Mega-squirt MS3 with the MSX expansion. total cost of parts is below:
Part..........Price
MS3 with MSX expansion- 645
Ms3 Pre-made Harness - 85
MSX Pre-made Harness - 89
GM IAT w/ Pigtail - 22.25
GM CLT w/ pigtail - 17.75
1 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 5
2 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 5.70
3 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 7.70
Grand total of 877.40.... which would leave you with some extra play room for other things
Part..........Price
MS3 with MSX expansion- 645
Ms3 Pre-made Harness - 85
MSX Pre-made Harness - 89
GM IAT w/ Pigtail - 22.25
GM CLT w/ pigtail - 17.75
1 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 5
2 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 5.70
3 position weather pack kit (3 connector pairs) - 7.70
Grand total of 877.40.... which would leave you with some extra play room for other things
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