Stand alone or Carb for this setup?
#1
Rotary Freak
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Stand alone or Carb for this setup?
S5 N/A (non-turbo) with a bridge port.
Will a stand alone give all the benifits to a junior bridgeport??? I really dont want to go carb. I want to remain as legal as possible (looking at least)
I want all the manifolds intact except I will swap the S5 VDI with the S4 one for better top end.
Will a stand alone give all the benifits to a junior bridgeport??? I really dont want to go carb. I want to remain as legal as possible (looking at least)
I want all the manifolds intact except I will swap the S5 VDI with the S4 one for better top end.
#2
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If you are really sneaky, you can disguise the standalone, much like street racers disguise a nitrous system. You can use a stock AFM for visual effect, gutting it if you like. With the BP, you will probably want to cut the intake manifold open with a band saw, gut the internals, and then weld it back together. You can hide the welds as a "polished" manifold if you take some time with it.
I don't see how you could possibly convert to a carb and fool anybody over the age of 10, lol. Anyway, the standalone will work better, especially since you can change from a smog map to a performance map in a matter of seconds, while retuning the carb would take a long time. Also, the standalone will allow for much better control of ignition timing, and the standalone ignition leads are much more stealth than a dizzy, ignition box, etc., that you would use with a carb.
Some people have been getting better results with the S5 manifold. I have not tried working with one, so I'm not sure what is done to it, but you may be able to search this forum for ideas. Regardless, do NOT use the S4 TPS with a standalone if you can help it. The S5 TPS is much better.
I don't see how you could possibly convert to a carb and fool anybody over the age of 10, lol. Anyway, the standalone will work better, especially since you can change from a smog map to a performance map in a matter of seconds, while retuning the carb would take a long time. Also, the standalone will allow for much better control of ignition timing, and the standalone ignition leads are much more stealth than a dizzy, ignition box, etc., that you would use with a carb.
Some people have been getting better results with the S5 manifold. I have not tried working with one, so I'm not sure what is done to it, but you may be able to search this forum for ideas. Regardless, do NOT use the S4 TPS with a standalone if you can help it. The S5 TPS is much better.
#3
Rotary Freak
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Oh good thanks. My concern for the benifits was mainly for horsspower but Im asking because it seems like those damn S5 S curve manifolds would be so restrictive for a bridge port. But you say thats not so.
About the middle manifold on the S4 I was only talking about converting it and nothing else like the TB or whatever so yes I will keep S5 TPS intact. Hm after a bit of searching a year ago on this forum it seems as if poeple got more top end with the middle S4 manifolds because they are straight and dont have the twists like the VDI S5 one does. It makes sense. You dont put tons of twists in your exaust do you? The VDI I think was for a better torque curve not top end or at least once your beyond stock anyways.
One more thing EVIL? when im not racing the bridge port say on the weekends and I drive with a cat and muffler do you think the sound would be quite enoughf to drive to work? See my last GXL listed without the engine work had a straight through RB exaust with just a muffler at the end and cops never ticketed me here in sd. It wasnt loud as everyone says theres is. My billet muffler rocked. Anyways thanks.
About the middle manifold on the S4 I was only talking about converting it and nothing else like the TB or whatever so yes I will keep S5 TPS intact. Hm after a bit of searching a year ago on this forum it seems as if poeple got more top end with the middle S4 manifolds because they are straight and dont have the twists like the VDI S5 one does. It makes sense. You dont put tons of twists in your exaust do you? The VDI I think was for a better torque curve not top end or at least once your beyond stock anyways.
One more thing EVIL? when im not racing the bridge port say on the weekends and I drive with a cat and muffler do you think the sound would be quite enoughf to drive to work? See my last GXL listed without the engine work had a straight through RB exaust with just a muffler at the end and cops never ticketed me here in sd. It wasnt loud as everyone says theres is. My billet muffler rocked. Anyways thanks.
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One thing your forgetting is inlet runner length and how when you change the port timming you should ultimatly change the length/design of the inlet tract.
Here is an interesting read with some very knowledgable people who have experience running a brideport with stock manifolds
Here is an interesting read with some very knowledgable people who have experience running a brideport with stock manifolds
#5
Rotary Freak
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lots of confusing. Its good info but nobody tells me whats the best for a brige. They talk about hondas,PP rotories,S2000's and 787's V8's but nobody comes to a conclusion so far. STill reading. Hmm
Whats ITR...What IR Velocity stacks, Plenum I thought was stock manifolds but they talk about aftermarket or something. Then they talk about other vocab I dont know about.
Whats ITR...What IR Velocity stacks, Plenum I thought was stock manifolds but they talk about aftermarket or something. Then they talk about other vocab I dont know about.
#6
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wow finally finished and still no usefull information. What a waste. Nobody mentions what setup is best for a bridge port. I mean looks like the VDI does NOT like bridgeports according to 1 guy but ok then swap the VDI with the S4 Straight runners and port them??? No usefull info at all.
So im still stuck.
So im still stuck.
#7
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Originally posted by von
wow finally finished and still no usefull information. What a waste. Nobody mentions what setup is best for a bridge port. I mean looks like the VDI does NOT like bridgeports according to 1 guy but ok then swap the VDI with the S4 Straight runners and port them??? No usefull info at all.
So im still stuck.
wow finally finished and still no usefull information. What a waste. Nobody mentions what setup is best for a bridge port. I mean looks like the VDI does NOT like bridgeports according to 1 guy but ok then swap the VDI with the S4 Straight runners and port them??? No usefull info at all.
So im still stuck.
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#8
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I'm with Evil. No offence, but some of the questions you asked are EFI 101. If you want this done now you should probably go talk to an experienced rotary workshop about what you want. Otherwise you need to do a lot more research, and not rely only on the internet for it.
Personally I'd never bother with stock manifolds on a bridgeport. An aftermarket IDA or DCOE TB set-up is far better suited to the high airflows. If that's going to present legal problems then you should seriously consider turbos as the practical way to get the power you want.
Personally I'd never bother with stock manifolds on a bridgeport. An aftermarket IDA or DCOE TB set-up is far better suited to the high airflows. If that's going to present legal problems then you should seriously consider turbos as the practical way to get the power you want.
#9
Rotary Freak
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Hm if I talk to a shop I might get biased opinions on whats best. But I will do that. Carb makes sense for high flow but the physics of everything and how it works is so much different. All I wanted to know is what will make more top end power Carb or EFI ? But its such a hard question im guessing because out of 600000 poeple on the forum nobody has ever had both setups optimized for power on lets say the same 2nd gen car. 2500 posts was good enoughf to get me this far and even rebuild my own engine but aparently asking what setup makes more power is just one of those odd ball questions that will forever go unansewered. Thanks for all the links thou lots of good info.
#12
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Originally posted by von
Hm if I talk to a shop I might get biased opinions on whats best.
Hm if I talk to a shop I might get biased opinions on whats best.
Originally posted by White_FC
Outright power will _NOT_ be effected by either setup, at all, however, EFI is an _infinatly_ better idea.
Outright power will _NOT_ be effected by either setup, at all, however, EFI is an _infinatly_ better idea.
#13
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Originally posted by Evil Aviator
Everything else being equal, the venturi of a carb creates a restriction, while EFI does not. Advantage - EFI. However, if a given tuner knows more about carbs, then that is the way to go.
Everything else being equal, the venturi of a carb creates a restriction, while EFI does not. Advantage - EFI. However, if a given tuner knows more about carbs, then that is the way to go.
hehe, my point was basically it's not so much wether you use a carb, EFI or even mechanical injection, all of which could safely produce the same good outright power.
But i'm sure you already knew that, so I'll stop nick picking about details, chances are they have already been lost in most peoples own clouded vision of reality.
Anyway, to the original poster, if you seriously wan't a bridgeport, don't both with the stock manifolds or computer, not worth it.
Mazdaspeed7 (over at nopistons.com) only just had just a (to me at least) mild auxillary bridgeport engine, and that would not even run corectly with the stock manifold/computer. So i'm not sure what you were planning but i'm sure if it was a bridgeport it wouldn't be more mild than his.
But hey, if you wanna prove us wrong, by all means go ahead with it, more power to you.
-Nathan
#14
Rotary Freak
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oh no ive gone cross eyed...Venturas, stock ecu's and larger carbs OH MY!!!
See thats what im talking about. What makes sense (carbs) for high flow is now a restriction...If I had a stand alone I wouldnt know any aftermarket manifolds to buy infact with all my searching I dont think I ever saw one to begin with. I already know what im gona do know so its all good you guys helped alot...
Im going to get a stand alone and port the hell out of mmy stock manifolds then swap the VDI manifold with a ported S4...This way I think I solved everybodies problem on why not to use them...This solves all the probs like restrictive venturies, Fuzzy carb ignition, VDI restriction exc exc...Plus I read that long runner length doesent mean less power. So that S curve of S5 manifolds should be ok with a bridge because of physics, pulse waves, negative waves, positive waves and **** that I dont know about so its all good.
See thats what im talking about. What makes sense (carbs) for high flow is now a restriction...If I had a stand alone I wouldnt know any aftermarket manifolds to buy infact with all my searching I dont think I ever saw one to begin with. I already know what im gona do know so its all good you guys helped alot...
Im going to get a stand alone and port the hell out of mmy stock manifolds then swap the VDI manifold with a ported S4...This way I think I solved everybodies problem on why not to use them...This solves all the probs like restrictive venturies, Fuzzy carb ignition, VDI restriction exc exc...Plus I read that long runner length doesent mean less power. So that S curve of S5 manifolds should be ok with a bridge because of physics, pulse waves, negative waves, positive waves and **** that I dont know about so its all good.
#15
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Originally posted by von
What makes sense (carbs) for high flow is now a restriction...
What makes sense (carbs) for high flow is now a restriction...
If I had a stand alone I wouldnt know any aftermarket manifolds to buy infact with all my searching I dont think I ever saw one to begin with.
I read that long runner length doesent mean less power.
#16
Dub'N
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see what you guys dont understand .is that i have not yet seen a shop that can do that kinda work for what he wants. in sd they all do turbod 7s. and there are a few to no lil shops around here.. on the other hand theres those porto ricans. that know there **** around here. and will be willing to build a motor for you Von.
on the other hand about the confusen with intake manifolds. i have a friends that has a CNC machine. he will be down to make a intake manifold for you so that you can run the stock tb and standalone..
Von if you have any questions, give me a Bling...
happy rotoring...
on the other hand about the confusen with intake manifolds. i have a friends that has a CNC machine. he will be down to make a intake manifold for you so that you can run the stock tb and standalone..
Von if you have any questions, give me a Bling...
happy rotoring...
#17
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oh look whos got the hookup. Well ok smarty pants didnt think you were an n/a guy. Hm I can build my own motor but as far as tuning and what manifolds to buy that I guess the purto ricans can do but I thought they were moving?
#18
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Originally posted by nitroracer
see what you guys dont understand .is that i have not yet seen a shop that can do that kinda work for what he wants.
see what you guys dont understand .is that i have not yet seen a shop that can do that kinda work for what he wants.
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Originally posted by nitroracer
see what you guys dont understand .is that i have not yet seen a shop that can do that kinda work for what he wants.
see what you guys dont understand .is that i have not yet seen a shop that can do that kinda work for what he wants.
Then again, I'm nowhere near Von, so theres no point in saying who...
But I can still talk about the type of inlet manifolds they use and i'll give you the big tip, they are not long, far from it, nor are they nearly as skinny as even a honed out stock one.
#20
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d
haha ya there are alot. Tri point engineering few hundred miles up north then thiers rx7.com ofcourse in texas. Im not stuck on finding a shop anyways I do pretty much anything myself. I do know one shop that I deal with for the little stuff.
White FC...Please give me a link to any FCs running 300hp on a bridge. And thanks for the tip. Links ???Thanks guys.
White FC...Please give me a link to any FCs running 300hp on a bridge. And thanks for the tip. Links ???Thanks guys.
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#22
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Oh ok so thats the setup thats making so much power. Damn 300 with just a BP 13b. Wow
Well looks like im back at square one because I cannot afford 5000 bucks for that manifold setup. But then again I think I will be happy with 240rwp with a carb or usuing stock manifold and bridge. Doesent matter to me anymore. Looks like anything more than 240rwp past 9500 rpms will cost exponentially more in other related parts to sustain those hiegher numbers. Thanks.
Well looks like im back at square one because I cannot afford 5000 bucks for that manifold setup. But then again I think I will be happy with 240rwp with a carb or usuing stock manifold and bridge. Doesent matter to me anymore. Looks like anything more than 240rwp past 9500 rpms will cost exponentially more in other related parts to sustain those hiegher numbers. Thanks.
#23
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Originally posted by von
I think I will be happy with 240rwp with a carb or usuing stock manifold and bridge.
I think I will be happy with 240rwp with a carb or usuing stock manifold and bridge.
If you want a 240rwhp road car, get a turbo.
#24
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what I do with it as far as street driving or daily driver is none of anybodies concern. I simply said I will be happy with 240rwp. If streetport carbs can get over 200rwp I dont see why I bridge cant? Do you ??? Show me somewere were it says I cant. The links I read say they all have.
#25
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Originally posted by von
what I do with it as far as street driving or daily driver is none of anybodies concern.
what I do with it as far as street driving or daily driver is none of anybodies concern.
I simply said I will be happy with 240rwp. If streetport carbs can get over 200rwp I dont see why I bridge cant? Do you ??? Show me somewere were it says I cant.