ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

im fairly certain I'm going to pop my engine this summer and I want to start preparing another engine, one that can take some serious abuse.

I want to run 25 to 30 pounds of boost safely. I would like at least 600whp.

I want a bridge port

So far from what I have gathered, I need 3 mm apex seals ( what material seems debatable), an s4 keg with an s5 rear iron and larger studs. And as far as gaskets and other seals go, stock is fine?

What rotors should I use? Just stock would be my guess?

If I am way off here please let me know. Also if you have a good engine combination please list it.

I guess I am looking for something strong that will last at least a couple seasons.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

You can pretty much use whatever you want. The S5 irons had the reinforced dowl near the oil pedistal which is nice to have. You don't even necessarily need 3mm seals either. You can run whatever rotors best suits your goals, hell I've ran the S5 NA rotors in 550+ cars. Switch your dowels out for studs, get some semi decent porting, upgraded/shimmed oil regulator, maybe do the oil jets on the shaft if you're feeling up to it.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You are in very debatable/controversial territory here.

well when you pop your engine you will probably have a toasted housing and rotor. it would be cheaper to pull it apart while it's still running.

There are cars making the power you want on 2mm seals. Read up on it, the 2mm seals seal better and are lighter. The 3mm seals will require you to get the rotor machined, adding cost. Can you afford that? I wouldn't go 3mm unless you are going ceramic, and that is over $1000 just for a set of the seals alone. At that power level some people would still say you can still use OEM apex seals.

The studs are debatable too. I thought about studding my motor but a lot of people told me that studs leak and aren't really necessary. A lot of people don't even believe dowel pinning is necessary at that power level. I would go with the s5 irons though at that power level.

the 8.5:1 s4 rotors should be fine, and would be safer for high boost

This is not necessary for that power level and will add significant fuel consumption. Not only that, if you screw up the bridge port you will be out some expensive s5 irons--and that is the main reason why you shouldn't do it. If you're making this thread, you're probably not skilled enough to attempt this. I wouldn't recommend it if this is your first motor.

Search the single turbo and rotary car performance forums, they have a lot of debates for you to read.

I'll give you the specs on the motor I just put together (88 T2):

-- large streetport on intake side (a friend ported intake)

-- exhaust port was using the pineapple stage 3 port (I did that)

-- RA 2mm Super Seals. Some claim these are hard on housings, others disagree, but nobody disagrees that they stand up to detonation very well. I've personally had these seals survive detonation.

-- McMaster-Carr teflon inner coolant seals (the RA ones have a poor reputation, some like the Pineapple ones and some don't)

-- s5 T2 irons, s4 T2 rotors and housings, housings were used but carefully spec'd out and had no real chrome flake

-- brand new OEM side and corner seals. All springs replaced. Side seals clearanced to 2 thousandths of an inch per the recommendation of some of the high hp guys in here (Howard Coleman)

-- s5 intake manifolds, runners polished the best I could. The s4 manifolds have smaller runners than the s5

If you want it to be reliable though, you will have to control detonation. That means high octane fuel, alcohol injection, or a combination thereof. You also need a good tune. There are also a lot of little things you need like stainless wastegate lines that won't melt or pop off.

but to hit that power level, you need a good high flowing turbo (GT40 class) and manifold etc.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

We can tell you what goes inside the motor no problem. But this is usually the step where people start doing researching on prices and hit the road on the rebuild.

Personal high-boost engine setup:
13B-RE Irons (Nice FAT streetport)
Rx-8 E-shaft
S6 13B-REW Housings & Rotors
ALS Apex seals
3rd gen corner seals
Atkins Oil rings
OEM coolant seals
Holset H1E


Theirs a little more to it but thats the basics. I've been saving to build this motor for about a year. All I have so far is the turbo and the housings and rotors.

And I'm NOT personally putting the motor together. I'll be overwatching it being built but I'm not doing it.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Just a thought:

You can buy a screwed up engine in the for sale section for dirt cheap and get to know the pieces if you want to practice.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

For the kind of turbo you will need to make 600 RWHP, then a bridgeport is necessary in my opinion to keep lag under control.

But why 30 PSI? Find a turbo that is efficient at a level around 20 PSI or below.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

For the way it would effect driveability of the car and gas mileage (which you shouldn't be looking for out of a 600WHP car anyway?), I wouldn't consider a bridge necessary, but I would recommend it. If not, your going to have to get use to full boost at 3.5k-4k give or take a little depending on the turbo. I'm sure it'll be fun for a little while, but your eventually not going to like the fact that you cant accelerate onto the highway in 4th gear for fear that you'll go sideways going into boost.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

the perception of lag is very subjective. there is, however, nothing subjective about worse fuel economy and an increased risk of an expensive porting mistake.

Rx7TyreBurna

iTrader: (1)

Big project! Good luck! It will be difficult. Plan to spend a lot of money.

Which standalone are you going to use?

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

As I said I want to start preparing another engine, implying that I am going to get another engine.

I want a bridgeport, to reduce lag and for more power, why would I be concerned about fuel economy at this level? I have 4 other cars I can jump in right now if I am concerned with that.
I do not plan on doing the bridge port myself, but you know what? I just may.

for my current setup, i am running a boost referenced snow AI system and a megasquirt.

Thanks for the perspective on going with lower boost.

What I got from this was to use s5 irons, s4 rotors, s4 housings, McMaster-Carr teflon inner coolant seals, oem side seals, turbo with high efficiencey at lower pressure and stainless wastegate lines

basically there are no consistent answers
This will not be a DD.

I also said at least 600 whp, I would like to have the option of making more in the future if I want to. Im not going to rebuild this thing again if my plans change.


Finally I feel I am absolutely skilled enough to do this, experienced in this particular application? not as well as I would like to but I am confident I can make it happen. The reason I am asking questions is because I would be a fool not to be. I have done plenty of research both on this forum and elsewhere, and have not been able to come to any conclusions. I hoped that I would get advice from people who do have the experience, because as some mentioned, this is not going to be cheap, and I only feel like doing it once.

Thank you for your input gentlemen.