S5 TII - Did we just blow the engine? Help.
04-26-07, 07:47 PM
#1
S5 TII - Did we just blow the engine? Help.
Hello all, my buddy's got a S5 TII (97k miles), all stock parts except for intake & exhaust. He took me for a ride in it, didn't really beat on it, it was running great... we park, he goes and gets something to eat, comes out and tries to start it. This is what happened when we tried:
Insert key, start car - engine turns over twice and then we hear a clunk and engine immediately stops. As soon as I heard this, I thought it was flooded... however, the engine will not turn over at all and since the engine still turns over if the engine is flooded, I thought it might be the started. It's lifeless. But, I don't think it's the starter any more (I'll get to that in a second). The battery is NOT the problem. We tried to jump it and headlights and everything else are strong.
After we gave up on it being the starter, we should have still been able to pop-start it by getting the car up to enough speed and popping the clutch in. We tried this down a hill, going about 20 MPH. As soon as the clutch goes in, the wheels lock up and skid until the car stops.
Now I'm think that the engine may have something else wrong with it. If you have any suggestions, know what's wrong with it or know of anything else we should try, please let me know... the car is sitting in an empty parking and worst of all, we don't want to have to tow it back to Maryland (currently in NY).
Thanks a ton in advance.
Insert key, start car - engine turns over twice and then we hear a clunk and engine immediately stops. As soon as I heard this, I thought it was flooded... however, the engine will not turn over at all and since the engine still turns over if the engine is flooded, I thought it might be the started. It's lifeless. But, I don't think it's the starter any more (I'll get to that in a second). The battery is NOT the problem. We tried to jump it and headlights and everything else are strong.
After we gave up on it being the starter, we should have still been able to pop-start it by getting the car up to enough speed and popping the clutch in. We tried this down a hill, going about 20 MPH. As soon as the clutch goes in, the wheels lock up and skid until the car stops.
Now I'm think that the engine may have something else wrong with it. If you have any suggestions, know what's wrong with it or know of anything else we should try, please let me know... the car is sitting in an empty parking and worst of all, we don't want to have to tow it back to Maryland (currently in NY).
Thanks a ton in advance.
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04-26-07, 08:09 PM
#8
Alright, we're going to go check the oil in it now and see if there's oil in it. He can't remember the last changed and has not checked it in a while. What else might have caused the engine to seize?
Edit: He changed it over winter.
Edit: He changed it over winter.
Last edited by CrossfireCurt; 04-26-07 at 08:28 PM.
04-26-07, 08:10 PM
#9
Originally Posted by racerlinkfc
sounds like you definetly seized the motor their should be something in archives about how to unseize a motor. try that sorry to hear about that though
Edit: Can't find the writeup, does anyone have a link to it?
Last edited by CrossfireCurt; 04-26-07 at 08:16 PM.
04-26-07, 08:14 PM
#10
Is he planning to fly?!
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Originally Posted by CrossfireCurt
Alright, we're going to go check the oil in it now and see if there's oil in it. He can't remember the last changed and has not checked it in a while.
:.....if he doesnt know the last time he changed the oil then he definately shouldnt own a 7....that is one of the most important things involved with owning a rotary
04-26-07, 08:22 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Spoolerr
Yep, sounds like a seized motor...
04-26-07, 08:38 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by SpeedOfLife
It could also be a seized tranny, couldn't it? The other thing I was thinking is if a chunk of apex seal happened to break off and got lodged, but that kind of thing should cause immediate failure and not show up after shutting down properly, right?
04-26-07, 08:45 PM
#15
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Its not the tranny. You gotta disengage the clutch to start the car, thus taking any power away from the tranny. Its deff an engine issue. One last thing to try before ruling a seized engine, tap the side of the starter with a hammer or something solid while cranking it. The starter itself could have a dead spot and not spinning or the gear may not be fully disengaged from the flywheel and locking it up.
04-26-07, 09:08 PM
#17
Alright so... here's our general conclusion. I do not think it's the starter. Yes, it clicks when we try and start it. And, it is getting full power so the starter is being powered (so no dead spot, or am I wrong to think this?). Engine has plenty of oil in it, so it's not that.
We do believe it is a seized engine. We tried rocking it back and fourth while in gear to see if it would free up at all, it did not. I tried cranking it by hand, that did not work. He's going to take it to a shop tomorrow just to make sure.
Now that we're looking at a seized engine, what is your guys' best way to go about this? I was thinking have it towed to a rotary mechanic and having him take care of it. Does anyone know how much that would cost? I'm going to assume that the engine will need a rebuild.
Also, does anyone know of any good rotary mechanics in NY or Maryland? If so, do you have their contact info?
We do believe it is a seized engine. We tried rocking it back and fourth while in gear to see if it would free up at all, it did not. I tried cranking it by hand, that did not work. He's going to take it to a shop tomorrow just to make sure.
Now that we're looking at a seized engine, what is your guys' best way to go about this? I was thinking have it towed to a rotary mechanic and having him take care of it. Does anyone know how much that would cost? I'm going to assume that the engine will need a rebuild.
Also, does anyone know of any good rotary mechanics in NY or Maryland? If so, do you have their contact info?
04-26-07, 09:13 PM
#19
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Just because the starter "clicks" does not mean its not the starter. I just had a forklift doing the same "clicking" noise yesterday at work. Tapped the starter with a hammer and WHAM, it fired right up. Try tapping the side of the starter with hammer or long wrench or something that has a little weight to it and see if it cranks.
As far as having a dealer or a rotary specialty shop rebuild the engine, you could very well be looking at 3-5k. If the engine is seized, it will need a rebuild. I aint never seen an engine sieze and not need replaced/rebuilt.
As far as having a dealer or a rotary specialty shop rebuild the engine, you could very well be looking at 3-5k. If the engine is seized, it will need a rebuild. I aint never seen an engine sieze and not need replaced/rebuilt.
04-26-07, 09:32 PM
#21
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I'm assuming carbon lock is the issue here. Did you try turning the motor by hand with the clutch in and the car in neutral (just in case the clutch is F*d) Try turning it forward and backward. If you can get it to move, take the exhaust manifold off so you can see in the exhaust ports and look for larg chunks of carbon that may have broken off. Good luck!
04-26-07, 11:26 PM
#24
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i know this is how you unstick a apex seal and i believe it will work to unseize the engine as well...https://www.rx7club.com/search.php?searchid=3232437...i forgot about this...tell you friend to try a few of these and see if it will turn
04-27-07, 12:51 AM
#25
This does happen sometimes, and it usually has the same result as a standard blown apex seal engine.
The stock apex seals are divided along their length, with a thin top piece that rides against the housing. As the seal wears, the top piece gets thinner and thinner, getting close to the top edge of the rotor that it slides in.
Eventually it can actually wear down enough to roll out of the groove. This normally happens when the engine is running down the road, and there is enough momentum in the engine/drivetrain/car to shatter the wedged seal, push the pieces aside, and keep going with just a little hesitation (followed by power loss due to lack of compression).
On rare occasions this rollout and wedge effect happens during the low momentum, low rpm ecents of startup and shutdown. During these times there is not enough energy to overcome the wedge, so the engine locks.
The some of the damage has already been done at this point..the wedged seal has already bent the tip of the rotor backwards, and has likely dented the rotorhousing a bit too. Even if you do force it to move one way or another by various means of towing/rolling/breaker bars on the crankshaft, you will only continue what has begun, and what would have happened had the engine been running at a higher rpm.
Bottom line, odds are about 10 to 1 that it will need to come apart.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...nt_damage.html
The stock apex seals are divided along their length, with a thin top piece that rides against the housing. As the seal wears, the top piece gets thinner and thinner, getting close to the top edge of the rotor that it slides in.
Eventually it can actually wear down enough to roll out of the groove. This normally happens when the engine is running down the road, and there is enough momentum in the engine/drivetrain/car to shatter the wedged seal, push the pieces aside, and keep going with just a little hesitation (followed by power loss due to lack of compression).
On rare occasions this rollout and wedge effect happens during the low momentum, low rpm ecents of startup and shutdown. During these times there is not enough energy to overcome the wedge, so the engine locks.
The some of the damage has already been done at this point..the wedged seal has already bent the tip of the rotor backwards, and has likely dented the rotorhousing a bit too. Even if you do force it to move one way or another by various means of towing/rolling/breaker bars on the crankshaft, you will only continue what has begun, and what would have happened had the engine been running at a higher rpm.
Bottom line, odds are about 10 to 1 that it will need to come apart.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...nt_damage.html