S4 turbo fresh rebuild: hard to turn by wrench
06-03-22, 01:19 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
S4 turbo fresh rebuild: hard to turn by wrench
I know there are a few past posts about this, but I wanted to add some details to get a fresh peace of mind from your opinions. Or rather a fresh fire under my ***.
S4 turbo block assembled last night. E&J apex seals. Turblown studs torqued to 40ftlb in 4 ftlb increments as they reccommend on their site. Stock side seals. Stock corner seals. Stock coolant seals. Mild streetport. BRAND new everything you can think of. Engine takes about 17ftlbs to turn over by wrench. I can turn it by hand but I won't lie, it feels harder than it should.
Of course, I had annoyances along the way with the pesky apex seal corners, as they love to pop out and get lost right as you toss an iron on top. I was very thorough with this build. It took me 7 hours of painstakingly meticulous checking of things. It is indeed my first build.
I have 3 theories as to why this is happening.
One: somehow, despite my extreme efforts to keep the apex corners down, one popped up and got a little bound up and is causing resistance. I checked front housing before fully seating the intermediate, and I was fairly confident I could send it home.
I did hear a small click when doing up my tension bolts with Haynes Manual torque pattern. These seals were not pre-glued.
Two: With housings, Irons, and anything else god himself could think of being brand new, maybe this causes a tighter tolerance, therefore adding resistance?
Three: With turblown recommending 40ftlb of torque, surely that could have a say in this, no?
Maybe a combination of all of those things. It spins a full rotation and its hard to tell if its more resistant in some angles of rotation.
More to note: The eshaft has endplay, about 1/8" without the front stack assembled. The apex seals have springiness when feeling through the exhaust holes. From what I can tell through ports, all of my seals are in place.
Has anyone had experience running an engine in this condition? I look forward to hearing some of your opinions.
S4 turbo block assembled last night. E&J apex seals. Turblown studs torqued to 40ftlb in 4 ftlb increments as they reccommend on their site. Stock side seals. Stock corner seals. Stock coolant seals. Mild streetport. BRAND new everything you can think of. Engine takes about 17ftlbs to turn over by wrench. I can turn it by hand but I won't lie, it feels harder than it should.
Of course, I had annoyances along the way with the pesky apex seal corners, as they love to pop out and get lost right as you toss an iron on top. I was very thorough with this build. It took me 7 hours of painstakingly meticulous checking of things. It is indeed my first build.
I have 3 theories as to why this is happening.
One: somehow, despite my extreme efforts to keep the apex corners down, one popped up and got a little bound up and is causing resistance. I checked front housing before fully seating the intermediate, and I was fairly confident I could send it home.
I did hear a small click when doing up my tension bolts with Haynes Manual torque pattern. These seals were not pre-glued.
Two: With housings, Irons, and anything else god himself could think of being brand new, maybe this causes a tighter tolerance, therefore adding resistance?
Three: With turblown recommending 40ftlb of torque, surely that could have a say in this, no?
Maybe a combination of all of those things. It spins a full rotation and its hard to tell if its more resistant in some angles of rotation.
More to note: The eshaft has endplay, about 1/8" without the front stack assembled. The apex seals have springiness when feeling through the exhaust holes. From what I can tell through ports, all of my seals are in place.
Has anyone had experience running an engine in this condition? I look forward to hearing some of your opinions.
06-04-22, 10:03 AM
#2
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so one, it should be more resistant sometimes, when you build compression it takes some force.
two if you have the spark plugs in or out it should change, with the plugs in you build more compression and it will be harder
three without the front stack stuff the e shaft can move around a lot, its fine, the front stack is what keeps it in place
four, the studs do change things. i would loosen the studs back down to something like 25 or whatever, and see if it changes.
it would be better to pull it apart and double check stuff than it would be to put it in the car and hope.
two if you have the spark plugs in or out it should change, with the plugs in you build more compression and it will be harder
three without the front stack stuff the e shaft can move around a lot, its fine, the front stack is what keeps it in place
four, the studs do change things. i would loosen the studs back down to something like 25 or whatever, and see if it changes.
it would be better to pull it apart and double check stuff than it would be to put it in the car and hope.
06-04-22, 10:42 AM
#3
Rotary Freak
I would also contact Turblown, see if he has any input on the situation. I don't think the engine should be that difficult to turn over myself, but having never tried on a fresh rebuild that's just my opinion.
Agreed with J9, investigate this before putting the engine into the car.
Agreed with J9, investigate this before putting the engine into the car.
06-04-22, 02:32 PM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
so one, it should be more resistant sometimes, when you build compression it takes some force.
two if you have the spark plugs in or out it should change, with the plugs in you build more compression and it will be harder
three without the front stack stuff the e shaft can move around a lot, its fine, the front stack is what keeps it in place
four, the studs do change things. i would loosen the studs back down to something like 25 or whatever, and see if it changes.
it would be better to pull it apart and double check stuff than it would be to put it in the car and hope.
two if you have the spark plugs in or out it should change, with the plugs in you build more compression and it will be harder
three without the front stack stuff the e shaft can move around a lot, its fine, the front stack is what keeps it in place
four, the studs do change things. i would loosen the studs back down to something like 25 or whatever, and see if it changes.
it would be better to pull it apart and double check stuff than it would be to put it in the car and hope.
Will update. Now the buggest thing I'm worried about was that click. Damn apex corners...
06-04-22, 04:37 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Update: front stack is fully installed. Flywheel is on as well. Still much easier to crank. 12-13 ftlbs. Maybe something seated and is happy now? I'm 50/50 on tearing it apart or leaving it...
Not to be Mr. Worry, but is it normal that I hear squeaking coming from the rear of the engine when I crank it over? I think its from the flywheel area. Everything is pretty lubed up
Not to be Mr. Worry, but is it normal that I hear squeaking coming from the rear of the engine when I crank it over? I think its from the flywheel area. Everything is pretty lubed up
06-04-22, 07:44 PM
#6
Full Member
I don’t believe I’ve had a squeaking sound, maybe try to pin point what that is.
Something I did just to check pulses after my rebuild ..I know it doesn’t prove everything is 100% but I felt better about dropping it into the car after my “test”. Obviously you can check by sound and make sure each rotor face pulse sounds consistent. I used a regular compression tester, grabbed a 2 foot breaker bar attached to the front bolt and recorded my compression tester as I slung the breaker bar at each pulse, as hard and consistent as I could. I repeated it for each rotor several times after a break in some case. If I recall correctly, I was getting around 80 psi for all faces. In my case that was used great condition housings with new seals elsewhere.
I know that doesn’t answer your question about the effort to rotate. Could be worth trying, unless you have a bell housing and starter on a test bench.
Something I did just to check pulses after my rebuild ..I know it doesn’t prove everything is 100% but I felt better about dropping it into the car after my “test”. Obviously you can check by sound and make sure each rotor face pulse sounds consistent. I used a regular compression tester, grabbed a 2 foot breaker bar attached to the front bolt and recorded my compression tester as I slung the breaker bar at each pulse, as hard and consistent as I could. I repeated it for each rotor several times after a break in some case. If I recall correctly, I was getting around 80 psi for all faces. In my case that was used great condition housings with new seals elsewhere.
I know that doesn’t answer your question about the effort to rotate. Could be worth trying, unless you have a bell housing and starter on a test bench.
Last edited by rotary_fan; 06-04-22 at 07:53 PM.
06-05-22, 09:41 AM
#7
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i always put a wrench on the crank and turn it to make sure it has 6 even pulses, its easy to check, and if something isn't right its easy to fix out of the car
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06-05-22, 01:45 PM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I don’t believe I’ve had a squeaking sound, maybe try to pin point what that is.
Something I did just to check pulses after my rebuild ..I know it doesn’t prove everything is 100% but I felt better about dropping it into the car after my “test”. Obviously you can check by sound and make sure each rotor face pulse sounds consistent. I used a regular compression tester, grabbed a 2 foot breaker bar attached to the front bolt and recorded my compression tester as I slung the breaker bar at each pulse, as hard and consistent as I could. I repeated it for each rotor several times after a break in some case. If I recall correctly, I was getting around 80 psi for all faces. In my case that was used great condition housings with new seals elsewhere.
I know that doesn’t answer your question about the effort to rotate. Could be worth trying, unless you have a bell housing and starter on a test bench.
Something I did just to check pulses after my rebuild ..I know it doesn’t prove everything is 100% but I felt better about dropping it into the car after my “test”. Obviously you can check by sound and make sure each rotor face pulse sounds consistent. I used a regular compression tester, grabbed a 2 foot breaker bar attached to the front bolt and recorded my compression tester as I slung the breaker bar at each pulse, as hard and consistent as I could. I repeated it for each rotor several times after a break in some case. If I recall correctly, I was getting around 80 psi for all faces. In my case that was used great condition housings with new seals elsewhere.
I know that doesn’t answer your question about the effort to rotate. Could be worth trying, unless you have a bell housing and starter on a test bench.
06-05-22, 04:24 PM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If it doesn't seem right after checking for pulses I will definitely swallow my pride and open it up to investigate. Are the water jacket seals reusable if they havent been run through heat cycles yet? (OEM)
I appreciate all the help from you guys, and sorry for all of the questions!
06-06-22, 08:26 AM
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06-06-22, 01:28 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
This whole damn car is my cardio workout 
That's comforting though. Engine cranks over smooth and easy now and I hear 6 even pulses. I have plugs on the way now. Will be seeing what kind of compression numbers I see. 
Glad to be a part of a very helpful community
That's comforting though. Engine cranks over smooth and easy now and I hear 6 even pulses. I have plugs on the way now. Will be seeing what kind of compression numbers I see. Glad to be a part of a very helpful community
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