Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

I've already oulled the harness so I'm going to check it out in the comfort of my AC'd house.

110 outside temp isn't fun to work in.

I got another harness any way so I will get it done again.

The bad wire has to be the grounf wire since the plugs had 12v (key on) in them so the ground is the only variabele I didn't verify.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

rotor housings are very used. all i know is it had new shiny rounded apex seals, machined rotors (one of them had a pricetag on it) and assembly grease inside, so i know it has atleast been rebuilt...

WAYNE88N/A

Ahh, Digi, don't let the voltage confuse you- BOTH wires of the injector will have 12v on 'em, because NEITHER wire is a ground, the ECU gives it a ground on another wire, remember? If the ground is "switched", as in this case, you won't have a voltage drop across the injector UNTIL the ECU gives that ground. That is why, when we hook our meters up to the ECU to watch the injectors, the voltage drops proportionately to the duty cycle- the meter's not fast enough to keep up with the "voltage,no voltage, voltage,no voltage several times per second, so the needle gives the appearance of a falling voltage. For instance, if we start at 14 volts, then mash the throttle and bring the injector "voltage" down to 7 volts, that signifies an approx. 50% duty cycle...

If you had 12v on both wires, your harness should be good (with the injector plug on), and your ground HAS to be good, or no injectors would be working- they all share the same ground.

How's your ECU???

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

ECu is fine. I have 2 and it's not the problem.

When I checked voltage on the injector plug itself.
I had 12v key on at one line only.
The other didn't have voltage.

WAYNE88N/A

If you had the plug OFF, then you wouldn't have had voltage on one- you broke the circuit when you pulled the plug...Once you connect it, both wires will have 12v- it's the same 12v you're seeing at the ECU when you're probing the pins...

Didn't you say a week or so ago that you checked everything at the ECU, and the voltages & grounds were good? Which means the harness is good, unless it's intermittent...I think your combo of injector types is screwing with you...Heck, even I'm confused now

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well I used 2 different N333 ECU's and verified the injectors are functional.

So it IS the harness.

I believe a solder joint broke since the car ran perfect one day and while driving it crapped out(vibration killed it).

My injecotr setup isn't confusing.

I have high impedance primaries.
So I don't have resistors inline for them.

My Secondaries are low impedance so I have resistors inline.

WAYNE88N/A

OK, just messing with ya Digi, you didn't have to explain it all again to me

The solder joint theory could very well be it, let's hope it's it, because we're fixing to hit page 5...

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

well I'm stumped on it.

I checked the harness.

I get continuity through all the wires.

This is what I did.

I toned each one out.
One wire at the injector plug goes to the ECU(4 wires/1 per injector)

These toned fine and I checked and the resistance was the same through each one.

I then checked the other wire and all the injectors tone to the same wire. This terminates to a interioir plug inside the car(orange plug which has 3x2 then 1x1 then 3x2).


Now I have one small theory as to one other thing.

Could my HKS FCD be sending fuel cut? I mean this would shut off fuel to the rear rotor right?

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

argh!

I just reinstalled the harness to check stuff.

It now shows 12v on the secondaries but the primaries are showing less than .2V

So now both don't fire !?!

I did have 12v at the plug/ecu itself so there is a break or something right after the plug .......

Me hates electronics

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

get a new (well, a used one) harness off ebay.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

one is on it's way.

I have to rewire this one as well.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

sorry you're havin all this trouble man, we've all had our fair share of problems.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I feel even worse considering I am the one that sold him that harness.... What a jerk I am.

And on top of that I stole his SE for 100 dollars. I think C is starting to hate me..

WAYNE88N/A

I gotta say this again, Digi, even though you don't agree- your harness is fine, it's your mixing of injector types that's screwing you- your messing with the ECU's head, somehow.

A little "tutorial"- the word "impedance" used on our injectors is actually a misnomer, impedance is defined as the total resistance given in an AC circuit, not a DC...Even then, impedance is something that only manifests itself when current is flowing (our injectors actually have much more resistance across the coils when energized than the 11 ohms we think they have)...So, what I'm getting at here is that between the two pairs of injector circuits, the ECU is seeing different current draws, because the resistors in the "low impedance" circuit do not exhibit "impedance" when current is flowing, they're 10 ohms whether or not current is present, while the same is not true for our injectors (or any circuit with coils, for that matter)...

This is my guess, even though you don't want to hear it.

Your ECU is good, your harness is good, the injectors tested good, your power is good, and your ground is good- what else is left?

If you have another pair of "normal" injectors that match your primaries, put those in & see what happens...If it still doesn't work, then look back at an intermittent harness malfunction...

You're off the hook for now, J-Rat

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I ran 2 peak and hold, and 2 saturated injectors on a stock ECU for a long time. Didnt effect the ECU in the slightest.

WAYNE88N/A

I think somehow it's screwing with Digi, though...I didn't say it couldn't be done, just that it ain't working right for him...

Maybe he's got a bad resistor in the harness somewhere, or doesn't have it (them) in the circuit in a good location??? He's pretty much checked everything else...

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well I think it's a problem bwtween the ecu plug and the resistor box I made.

I found voltage at the ecu and about an inch from it.

About 5 inches from there is my reistor box with plugs. I think the plugs went bad or something.

I'll screw around w/ it tonight but i have another harness coming.

I checked the resistor box by itself and the wires were not shorting or grounding anywhere so I think it's just 16 yr old wire snbapping inside the insulater or something. Dunno.

WAYNE88N/A

Hmmm...If you're getting voltage at the injector circuit inputs, that should mean the wiring is good (again- it could be intermittent, something like "only when I push on the gas and the engine torques to the right", or whatever...)

Anyhow, good luck with her

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

OK recap on wtf is going on.

yesterday I checked voltage.
I got 12v on the secoindaries and like 1 volt on primaries. They wouldn't even fire.

Now to today!!!
It's reversed itself!
The secondaries have 1 volt and the primaries have 12v!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????!!

This has me totally stumped. Why would it switch like that for no reason? I never even touched or changed anything from last night.

WAYNE88N/A

Digi, you have a little green man in there running around and playing havoc with your resistor box-please remove him immediately.

Let's start from square one- you have a circuit that splits into 4 wires from the main relay and terminates at one pin of each injector, right so far?
Now, 4 more wires come from these injectors, and two of these go straight to the ECU (high impedance ones), and two go to your "little green man" resistor box, right? These two then go straight to the ECU, just like a normal circuit connection, still with me?

Now, if all of the above is not true, and you ran the two resistors in the wiring BETWEEN the main relay and the injectors, then you're dropping the voltage before the injectors even have a chance to use it. In short, please make sure your resistor box is in the right section of the circuit, and post a pic of the little green man when you catch him, I haven't seen mine for quite a while, and forget what he looks like...Cheers

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

From mutliple threads I've read that it does not matter which side you put the resistors on.

I put a resistor on pin 3E(rear primary) and 3C (front primary)

I did not touch 3I(main relay) for any purpose that I can recall. I may have had to splice in a new line due to broken wire.

Due to my setup I cut all 4 injector wires.
3E,3C,3F,3H

I then have a plug in resistor box which is for the secondaries while the primaries are just two wires.

You can see in this pic. White wire is the resistoir and black are just regular wire no resistor.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

take that resistor crap out of there and get 4 matching injectors. those bigger injectors arent doing you much good when you cant drive your car, let alone boost and utilize their higher output.

WAYNE88N/A

I thought you said the secondaries were the low-impedance ones?

So the primaries are, because that's the resistor circuit, from what you've said.

You have the resistor block on the injector-to-ECU wiring run, that should be good...I wouldn't put 'em between the main relay-to-injector run...

I've learned from "multiple threads" that you can't always believe what people have posted, especially when it deals with electrical issues & grounds...

Only question that pops in my head right now is, when you pushed your plugs together near the ECU for your "resistor box", did you accidently push a pin out of its socket (i.e. it wasn't locked in good enough). Have you done a "pull test" on the wiring coming out of the plugs?

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

yeah good idea. that'd be the only other thing i could think of. however, if it were me, i'd take the resistor pack thing out. then i'd take all 4 injectors out and swap them out with 4 known working ones that are good (of the correct impedence)

WAYNE88N/A

Yeh, jacobcartmill, but Digi wants to make this work, and he's hardheaded just like all the rest of us, so we gotta try to help him make it work this way...