Digi7ech

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Well we did some trouble shooting over the weekend.

Some back ground info.

It's a S5 Jspec which I got rebuilt. I have S4 rotors in it and essentially it's running as S4. Menaing all S4 electronics and front cover for mech omp.

The thing that is getting us stumped is that is continuously floods.

It has 4 cleaned and tested 550 injectors and a Walbro fuel pump.

By chance we got it to start up on it's own. It pulled -10 to 13hg at 1500rpm idle.

We were able to bring it down to 900rpm to get some stuff checked out. The TPS was set,Timing is dead on,etc..

We shut the engine down after about 5 minutes running. Mistake nmbr 1.

It wouldn't start on it's own again. We ended up pull starting the car and then bringing it back into the garage. It's running at 1500-2k rpm now and doing -10hg.

The wasn't running right though. the rear rotor wasn't getting spark.

So we reved it a bit to try and kick it on but nothing.

We then let it run for a bit to get to running temp.
We shut it down and did a compression test.
It was seeing around 65-70ish psi on each rotor face.
Then 90psi cumulative on each rotor.

This engine so far only has 8 miles total of driving time.

So we knew what psi we were working with now.
We then checked the plugs and the rear rotor spark plug was incredible clean like it had never even been fired inside an engine. This was confusing.

So we figured maybe it's a dead coil. Well it wasn't.
Both trailing and leading coils fired fine on all plugs.(took plug and layed it on a grounded area to spark)

So the only thing we can think of is that an injector isn't doing it's job.

Any thoughts????????

I plan to rip the UIM off Wednesday or Thursday to start trouble shooting. The spark plug seems absolutely clean so I can only guess that the injectors aren't opening at all.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

LET IT RUN! It will need 100 miles or so in order to build up enough compression to start on it's own and idle. Bump the idle to about 1200 for the first 300 miles or so.

It will take some time to break everything in. As long as it runs smooth once it gets going past 1000 RPM, then it's probably fine.

double barrel

your car is going to flood for the first 500 miles or so on account the seals can leak a tad bit well it is being broken in so dont get scared. Be PATIENT , it sucks i know. Even atkins rotary adressed this issue.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well that's not the thing that's confusing me.

The rear rotor spark plug was perfectly clean. These were new plugs so you can tell if they were sparking.

The front rotors had the normal small amount of tinging from spark but the rear was like it had been taken out of the box and never installed.

Oh and in addition.

It has had 12+ hours of idle time so far.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

12 hours of idle is going to do nothing but foul the plugs. The car needs to be driven under load.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Another thing.
It's not a Vac leak. I fixed all the leak this weekend.

I pressurized the system to 4psi and listened to hissing.
I found one on my ACV block off plate and a pin hole on my S5 TID.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

It can't drive.

Last time I drove it around my neighborhood it went fine until I came to a stop sign. Then the idle went to crap and pretty much ran on one rotor.

I think I put 3 miles on it that time.

The time previous it popped off my Home depot intercooler replcement piping and I had to be towed home since it won't start on it's own.

No amount of deflooding will make it start up.

I even did a oil change Friday since the oil was so badly contaminated.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

OK...So as it is now, can you start the car?

Have you checked for leaking injectors? Pull the upper intake off and pressurize the system...Will be obvious if there is a problem...

Generally, I start rebuilds by starting the car, the bumping the idle to about 1500. Let it run while you check for leaks, then get it in and put some mileage on the engine...You will need at least 100 miles before the engine becomes easy to start and can maintain something close to an idle.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well it can't start on it's own.

We have to tow start the thing by dropping it in gear.

I usually kick the idle up to 1500-2k and then back it down a bit after it's running.

I'll check for leaky injectors Wed/Thurs when I pull the UIM off.

They are cleaned by Cruzin though. Never used them before putting them in the car.

I'm almost thinking that there is a break in an injector wire since they are cleaned and tested injectors.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

No idea who "Cruizin" is...Local diesel shops are generally pretty good at cleaning injectors. Cheap too.

Not surprising that it doesn't start on it's own, but please, don't tow start. Push start it. Much safer.

If there is a stuck injector, the car will run stupidly rich, or more likely, not at all.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Cruzinperformance.com

Lots of guys have used him.

I plan on tow starting it ever time. I will never push start it. We can't get enough speed and have you ever tried pushing s car in 110 degree weather? not fun

I've got it down though.
We have a nice long tow strap and we pull it and I drop it into second. As soonas RPM's are high enough and it's running I push in the clutch and use the ebrake to stop.

I've done it over 20 times already.

Rex4Life

Did you put in a fuel cut switch?

I needed mine for the first 500 miles or so. Start cranking with the fuel off and then after about 3 sec turn on the fuel. Worked every time for me.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

No fuel cut.

We either pulled the EGI fuses or the fuel pump plug under the dash.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

An additional thought.

My TII harness was pretty beat up.

I did a bit of rewiring and modding.

At the injectors themselves I had to fix a few broekn connections. Maybe a solder joint didn't hold.

The other mod I did was adding in a plug N play resistor box.
My primaries are high impedance and secondaries low impedance.

I used a 4 pin plug and have a resistor box with 10ohm's in it for the primaries and just straight line for the secondaries.

I'll pull a mutli meter out to check ohm's and voltages once I get the manifold off.

Man, At times I wish I had a stand alone.

I almost thought of making my own wiring harness for the EFI but I couldn't find the square injector plugs to run new wires. I could reuse some plugs but others were too gone. I don't want to scalp them off my good NA harness either.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Push it with another car.

If the harness is in rough shape, then the problem could be anything...I've seen several TII swaps that were and still are disasters because the owner refused to replace the harness or go standalone (like all TII swaps should be).

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Would you know where to get the square injector plugs?

The local Auto stores/NAPA/BAP/Checker don't sell them.
I went over this harness and inspected for cracks and stuff.

I then rewrapped it.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Find a Bosch service center. Diesel shops are a good place to start as many of them do gas injectors as well. I have no problem getting those plugs from my local NAPA/Car Quest/Canadian Tire.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

hmm I think the guys were just morons then.

I think I will go get some wire and run new lengths of it for the injectors.

Man I want to redo the harness but the end plugs are a PITA.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

yeah i pulled the fuses too and that really didnt' help a lot with a new rebuild. I could have swore it allowed spark but ours wasn't after the fuse was pulled.

Then I disconnect the fuel pump relay so the engine will still spark and clear out that fuel.

After doing that it started right up as opposed to tak'n spark plugs out then turning over........etc.

Plug it in fast once it starts and then it will start to run off new fuel.

just alot easier/effective in my opinion since it's a one man operation.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Okay, let me elaborate here...

I was the one that looked at the motor over the weekend. When I went out to start it first thing, it started right up, ran good, idled nice, etc...

I cant remember why I shut it down, I think I did it to adjust something, but I went right back to the motor and tried to fire it.. No good. No amount of deflooding (pulling the fuel pump relay) etc, would get it to start. So now we are tow starting the car, and it starts. But it will only fire on one rotor..

Okay, seen that before, just rev the motor a few times, and the other plugs usually start firing. Not this time. Car continued to run on on rotor (the front I assume, thats the plug that had burn marks on it). The rear was sparkly clean, and little or no gas residue on it...

So here are my theories:

A: D-ech didnt give the motor enough revs to bring the rear rotor online.

B: The plug wires are toast, giving a weak spark.

C: Possible bad/misfiring injector.

D: Start it cold, get both rotors to fire, an go for a LOOOOONNNG *** drive.

Compression numbers seem to be in line with a rebuilt motor that may or may not have used housings.

Rat

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

My new plug wires are in today.

Checker 13bux and lifetime warranty

So pretty much the rear rotor is deciding not to run for some weird reason.

It drove perfect one day for like 15 minutes in my neighborhood. I then came to a stop sign and it crapped out again(rotor stopped combusting I assume)

Me tinks more and more it's a bad wire or maybe even ground. The coils were fine so it has to be under the UIM.

Oh well I'll be checking it out tomorrow.

WAYNE88N/A

You may have an injector coil getting hot & taking a crap on ya, among other possibilities...Only way to tell would be to get a resistance reading with a cold engine, either at the injector itself, or back at the ECU (that way the whole circuit can be read). Take her for a spin, shut her down, and immediately take the readings again for comparison. If that's what the problem is (injector or harness), you'll nail it right there...

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

The coils are the ones from before the engine swap. I never touched them in the conversion.

They ran perfect before and should now.

That's why I believe it's in my EFI harness.

You don't even know how bad it was before I started rewiring it.

WAYNE88N/A

Not the ignition coil, the INJECTOR coil...Ya know, the little magnet/ coil of wire thingy on the inside off the injector. How do you think they open up to squirt fuel?

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

doh injector!

I see what your saying.

Hmm it's kind of possible.

The injectors were all cleaned and tested by Cruzinperformance.com

here are the stats for the secondaries.
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Injector Resistance 12.8 12.9 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 2. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) F P
Test 3. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) F F
Test 4. 30 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 71 72 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 5. 100mL Pulsed Volume 99 100 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 6. 10 Second Static Flow (mL) 105 109 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 7. 100mL Static Flow 98 100 0 0 0 0 0 0

Test Results After Service
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) G G
Test 3. 30 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 73 73 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 100 100 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 5. 10 Second Static Flow (mL) 108 109 0 0 0 0 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 99 100 0 0 0 0 0 0
Approximate pound-per-hour flow 55.42 55.93 0 0 0 0 0 0