chubbrx7

i know a million people have put this same problem up here but i still have a problem. i have tried the atf procedure-checkedfor sparks on the leading and trailing plugs and coils and their is spark-checked fuel system and everything is fine-checked air flow meter and it is fine-tried unflooding it 50 times-has been sitting so replaced the gas with fresh gas-car cranks very fast when pluge are not in -but spins slwer when i put theplugs in- the battery has charge-cranks but will not start, it sometimes backfires white smoke out the exhaust and afm-i believe it has compression because when the plugs are in it cranks differently-listend to pulses when plugs were out sounded okay all the same-tried cranking engine with the two leading coils out and it made a wierd sound and fire shot out of the spark plug holes-also when i did this alot of white smoke came out of the exhaust-i havent tried new spark plugs because i thougt as long as they are sparking theyre ok- they are ngks and i clean them off after every procedure because of the fuel and atf on them-please help! i dont know what to do next?

Six Rotors

iTrader: (17)

Have you checked the ignition timing?If you are not sure re-time in accordance with manual.

chubbrx7

i have not touched the timing- it has been that way before and it ran i think- does timing gooff by itsself?

Six Rotors

iTrader: (17)

Not normally,but you never know.It's a 10 min job to check it.You say you have spark,fuel and compression--that's all you need if the spark happens at the right time!

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...car+wont+start

Read this thread...Its what I had to go through. Its actually an 87. If you need more help I will be glad to assist. It took me 5 days and A LOT of patience but I finally got it to start.

Rat

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Where in Az are you?

DJChunter

J-rat i need help i have the same problem... Check out my thred "my car is a piece os SH*T!!!" get back to me PLEASE e-mailjchunter@aol.com or IM: Djchunter
THanks Dave

chubbrx7

in the first response i live in phoenix az-second today i went out to f**k the car again and i took out the leading plugs cranked the engine and after about 5 rotations i started hearing a stange popping sound, wich i later found out was the trailing plugs igniting the gas and causing an explosion ,wich i caught in time enough to prevent any damage-is this normal, because i thought the leading spark plug only dealt with firing the engine or am i wrong-i also would like to know what is causing the backfiring-lastly do new spark plugs make that much difference in this situation, i still have the same ones that came with the car and they have been fouled at least 20 times since i have been trying to start the car, i clean the off with alcohol after every time.

p.s.
when the car cranks slower when the spark plugs are in does that mean that it has compression-it also cranks differently-thanx for the help you guys- rotary rockets are tight

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

The training plugs are there to clean out any residual gas left after the combustion. They are needed due to the design of the combustion chamber in the rotary motor. New plugs do make a BIG difference. I would recommend NGK's. THe part #s are BUR9EQ and BUR7EQ (this is from memory so I may be off a little). Obviously there are 2 part numbers, one for leading, one for trailing. Too bad you arent in Tucson, I would be able to help you..

Rat

chubbrx7

Im back , i was wondering why my car is backfiring when i try to start it white smoke is coming out of the exhaust and the air flow meter-again does it mean that you have compression if it cranks slower with the spark plugs in(it also crank differently than before-the engine moves from side to side and it sounds like it wants to start)-does this sound like i am on the right track or not

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

WHite smoke = ATF... The motor probably has some compression if the plugs change how the motor sounds when starting, but its a pretty poor method of determining how good your compression really is.

chubbrx7

atf, i thought so -that means something is going on in that engine of mine-i am going to get new spark plugs today and start to narrow down the process of getting the engine started-since i dont have a timing light it will be hard for me to check the timing, i guess i can get one in a couple of days,in the mean time i will try the other things- i do have one more question=how do i get an accurate compression reading if the car does not start/i heard that on a rotary the engine has to be warm in order to get an accurate reading and i thought that on initial start-up the motor has no to very little compression- so how does that work?

p.s. what does the backfiring mean

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

On the compression, the RX does have low compression at startup, but the ATF should boost it a little..I am not sure how to test it, but it sounds like you may have compression. The backfiring could be a result of bad timing, or improperly routed spark plug wires. What you need to do is the complex unflooding where you inject ATF into the oil injection port. Then take the plugs out and disable the fuel pump. Floor the car and crank it for 15 secs. Come back every 3-5 hours and re-crank it with the plugs out. You have to get all that gunk out of your motor. If you take about 24 hours to get all that stuff out of the motor, it should fire. The is another way to time the motor without the timing light (preliminary only). Take out the CAS, and line the mark up with the timing tap (there is a dimple on the crank). Take the top of the CAS off and mark the rotor up there with something on the housing. Slide the cas in and adjust it so the marks you made line up. Most people just align the dimple and the mark, and slide the CAS in. Well, this isnt very accurate because the gears sliding in will turn the CAS so its out of alignment a ways. If you do this, you are gonna need check timing with a light when its running. And you need to ground the initial set connector in order to time the motor.

Good luck!!!

Rat

chubbrx7

where in the hell is the leading timing mark on the crank pulley - i cant line up the marker because i cant see it-why do i have a little bit of pressure from the radiator cap when the car sits for a couple of days?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

YOur timing mark on the pulley is a yellow dot that sits on top of the pulley. The red mark is for your trailing plugs...The timing is 5 degress ATDC. Which side of the timing tab is advance, i dont quite know yet...

chubbrx7

okay so the leading timing mark is supposed to be yellow, i am suppose to match up the pin with that mark right, now when i took the top off of the cas there was an rotor with two points facing in opposite directions and one side had a dot on it is this the leading side and is that what i line up when i line the yellow dot on the pulley up with pin on the engine housing?


just curious, does the fuel pump always go bad on these cars because out of the three i had all three fuel pumps were bad when i got them?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

When you align the CAS, you have to pull it ALL the way out. There is a dimple on the shaft of the CAS, and a tab on the housing. You have to line these up and mark the position on the top of the cas with the top off. Then you slide it back in, and align the marks you just made...This is only preliminary. Once you are running, you have to jumper the initial set connector, set the idle to 750. Then you need to put your timing light on L1...You should see the yellow dot lined up with the timing tab. This represents 5 degrees.

chubbrx7

okay let me make sure i have this right before i go tearing into stuff-take the cas out and there should be a dimple on the shaft(the part that goes into the engine right)-then i line the dimple on the shaft with a tab on the housing(do i have to crank the engine to see if i see the yellow mark before i start or does it matter-sorry about all these dumb questions but the only thing i ever set the timing on was my honda prelude after i had just installed a head gasket( i had someone crank the motor while i rotated the distributor until it fired, would that work for this car , just curious) thanx again for your help and patience j-rat

p.s. do you ever come to phoenix because i would like to learn everything you know about the wankel first hand

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, that was a fairly important step I friggin left out...In order to time the motor, the yellow timing mark on the crank pulley has to be lined up with the timing pin. THEN you take out the CAS and line up the dimple and the timing mark on the lower part of the CAS. Timing this motor is pretty simple, if you need more assistance, read section 5 of this manual http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/Technical_I...ice_manual.htm

Remember In order to properly time the RX, or any other motor, it needs to be running.

P.S.

Most of what I have learned has been through months of constant research and pestering the guys here for more advice. Seems like maintaining these cars is somewhat of a lost art, and I REFUSE to let the monkeys at the Mazda dealership even look at my car. I do go to Pheonix, but not as often as I should...Like every good Tucsonian, I HATE Pheonix!......

chubbrx7

okay today i went out to set the timing,but there is one problem there is no yellow dot, there is a little white indention on the crank pulley thats it. is that the same thing or am i screwed-i set the dimple on the bottom of the cas(the one right above the gear) with the knotch on the cas housing, then i marked on the top of the cas(with the top off of course) the right location-then i put it back in -should i be alright with that adjustment.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

The white dot is the one on the crank pulley you are looking for. The red dot indicates trailing timing. Mine looks yellow probably cause its old and faded. But thats it.

rat

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

YOu can check the adjustment one you have everything assembled EXCEPT the plugs installed, with a timing light...Do you have one?

nathandarby67

I am having a very similar problem. We are in the process of trying to get my friend's 89 NA RX-7 to start. Here is where it all stands: All the plugs are getting spark, the fuel pump is working, we have tried every unflooding trick in the book, gone through a couple quarts of ATF, and still it won't start. It will pop and sputter at times like it is trying to start, but it won't really catch. We checked the timing with a timing light and I think it may be off. We attached the light to the L1 plug lead and adjusted the crank angle sensor until the yellow pully mark was lined up with the timing pin. Next we connected the light to the T1 lead, and the light is again firing when the yellow mark is in line, NOT the red like the service manual says it is supposed to. Is this normal? Keep in mind the car is just beeing cranked and not idling, I don't know if that makes a difference. Any ideas on what the problem is here or what to do? I am really stumped by this one. Also, if I want to inject the ATF into the oil injection hose, how exactly do I do that? Where do I inject the oil exactly? Thanks for any help!

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

When I first got my RX to fire, it would cough, sputter and basically carry on, but never run....Reason? The air runner from the air filter to the throttle body was disconnected. Could be your problem, may not be. But to be sure...Make sure that the air intake system is intact from the Air filter box to the throttle body. This ensures the AFM is working. THe car wont run without it. Also make sure the plug on the right side of your air filer box is plugged in. When I initially timed my motor, I used L1, and cranked it, plugs out, while getting the dot lined up with the timing pin using an inductive timing light. This seems to have worked cause once I cranked, it fired right up. The oil injection hose is on top of the motor. There are 3 Vac lines coming straight out towards you as you are looking at the front of the motor. The bigger one is the oil hose. If you run ATF into it (about 1/3 cup) and crank the motor, throttle open, plugs out, you should get a nice dispersion of ATF throughout the motor. And with the plugs out, you can get some residual out of the motor. The idea is to get the ATF to cause the seals to make compression, not fill your rotor housings with ATF. Oh, and to clarify, you take the big vac hose of the motor and put the atf into the hose...

Rat

chubbrx7

okay now im pissed-this damn car still will not start-i bought new spark plugs(ngks of course)-did the atf trick AGAIN-adjusted the timing(5 times)-checked everything over more times, the intake is complete- after i put the new plugs in i cranked it and it did do a little better, this time it just kept backfiring from the intake and exhaust( white smoke everywhere)-but of course it will not crank over-and guess what after all that cranking i think i fried my starter now it just clicks and thats it ,i know its not my battery because i had it tested and i also had my friend jump me and it did the same thing-1 good thing is that i know a good rotary rebuilder, and he says that it sounds like my engine is still good- it doesnt leak coolant inside or blow it out the radiator filler-when the plugs are in it cranks with a rythem likes it is suppose to do- he told me it might be an electrical problem but i don't see how because i have tested everything and it workes properly- the only thing i have not checked the groung wire on the passenger side but will tommarrow- also when i was pushing it to a diffrerent location i jumped in and put the car in first and dropped the clutch and it sounded like it wanted to start(got me exited, dammit whyt must you tease me 7) oyeah i was only pushing the car about mph is that why it didnt start?