I had vac leak on my list at first, but I've seen had a good look around, and pulled and re-installed the manifolds (to get at the primaries.) Didn't find anything.
Talking to my mechanic friend in a chat right now. He has a good suggestion - put a teaspoon of fuel into each leading plug hole, put the plugs back in and crank her. **about finding dry plugs all the time --> "hmmm, then plugs should be wet if there is not combustion" If she starts (or at least reacts to the fuel,) then that means that she isn't seeing fuel during cranking, which brings a whole new puzzle. Anyway, that's for tomorrow. I'm starving, food now! :yum: |
How about puttin a jumper wire in the intial set connector like i already told you and assumed you tried.. at least see if your fuel pump is running, if it is and still no cranky, find the clog or replace the pump.
also it may seem like a stretch, but you can Verify if the CAS is turning when you crank the motor? |
Sounds like a fuel issue. My 7 would start only with ether, I swapped the primaries for known good injectors, no difference. I was getting proper fuel pressure...so I was puzzled. I changed the fuel pump just for shits and giggles and that turned out to be it.
I would say pull or push start it. Verify you have sufficient pressure and hold pressure refer to FSM or haynes for specs. |
Originally Posted by lastphaseofthis
(Post 9759553)
How about puttin a jumper wire in the intial set connector like i already told you and assumed you tried.. at least see if your fuel pump is running, if it is and still no cranky, find the clog or replace the pump.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=14 Verify if the CAS is turning when you crank the motor? - fuel pump operates during crank and key ON - signal from CAS to ECU to coils is working during crank - signal from CAS to ECU to coils is working key ON (could hear them during the primaries testing) - signal from CAS to ECU to primaries is working key ON - signal from CAS to ECU to primaries is not confirmed during crank If the teaspoon of fuel gives positive results, I think the next step is troubleshooting between the CAS and the injectors. The only thing between the injectors and the chambers are the runners - I don't think there's anything in there that could possibly prevent fuel from reaching the chambers. Plus it would be an extraordinary coincidence if something in there did go fucko at almost the same moment as the rad failure. I would say pull or push start it. Verify you have sufficient pressure and hold pressure refer to FSM or haynes for specs. Pressure was verified during the primaries troubleshooting; a) by how quickly the jar filled with fuel during the brief cranking and b) when I first went to check the primaries/CAS, I keyed the car On without blocking off the fuel line to the secondaries (which I had disconnected to remove the manifolds.) Can you say fountain? :) And finally when the primaries were firing they were emitting proper cone jets. Lots of pressure. |
you're gonna wind up with a car in pieces that has more problems than it originally should have had if you keep it up.
the car is probably flooded due to cranking it after the electrical issue of the radiator explosion. the coolant STILL needs to be cleaned out with water and compressed air and deflooding procedures followed, most likely i would suggest a few ounces of MMO in each leading plug hole and crank the engine over by hand a few times. it's your car and your choice but i'm letting you know that i was serious. you can beat your head against the wall all you want but ripping things apart and looking for ghosts will just frustruate you more. |
Originally Posted by Karack
(Post 9759868)
you're gonna wind up with a car in pieces that has more problems than it originally should have had if you keep it up.
the car is probably flooded the coolant STILL needs to be cleaned out with water and compressed air What I still won't do is dump water all over an engine bay in sub-zero temperatures, especially when there is no ready means of drying it afterwards. Call me crazy. ;) i would suggest a few ounces of MMO it's your car and your choice but i'm letting you know that i was serious. you can beat your head against the wall all you want but ripping things apart and looking for ghosts will just frustruate you more. |
no need to get defensive but i will say i probably do have a little more experience in the aspect of these cars and gave my best suggestions.
engine oil doesn't burn, it will foul the plugs. water does freeze, get it somewhere warm and with compressed air. dry plugs does NOT mean the engine can't be flooded, i'm sure you cranked the engine for a good 20 minutes after the issue, possibly with fuel being injected and no spark resulting in the seals becoming dry and unlubricated which results in low cranking compression on older engines and even new ones. gas does dry and leaves no trace that it was sopping in fuel only a few days prior. i gave my idea, you can just disregard it if you want or argue why you think it's a bad idea. i understand your situation but sometimes you just can't fix something without finding a nice dry garage somewhere out of the elements. |
Originally Posted by Karack
(Post 9759955)
no need to get defensive
but i will say i probably do have a little more experience in the aspect of these cars and gave my best suggestions. i'm sure you cranked the engine for a good 20 minutes after the issue sometimes you just can't fix something without finding a nice dry garage somewhere out of the elements. |
I call flooded too :) but prove us wrong please, I can't think of anything else that would cause it to not start besides that bad coil you suggested :lol:
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What happened to just sticking the spark plug near a ground and observing for spark as the engine is cranked? That + the injector test with the manifolds off should guide you in the right direction. Sometimes biting the bullet and checking components with labor intensive methods is easier than guessing and getting frustrated because that can lead to you wanting to set the car on fire and other self destructive actions.
I haven't read the entire thread though (way too much reading for me personally). |
prove us wrong.
spark>fuel>compression. |
Originally Posted by KhanArtisT
(Post 9760096)
What happened to just sticking the spark plug near a ground and observing for spark as the engine is cranked?
spark>fuel>compression |
The Flaw in your fuel pressure test is that it filled the jar when there was no "back pressure" on the pump. you need a guage installed between the pump and regulator, and observe the pressure while cranking, it should be in the 38-40 psi range. i could be off on the figures, recheck in the FSM. it's more cost benefitial at this point to just buy a pump instead of a guage set if you can't borrow one.
Another thing is try to get the car to run for 20 seconds on quickstart, maybe in the 20 seconds the fuel pump will come back to life and keep the car runnng, but i doubt it. Simple truth is, if a car starts on quick start, but wont other wise, its NOT FLOODED. does it start every time you put quick start in it? or not? another thing, how much fuel is in your tank? would it be possible for it to be bad, or were you driving the car daily prior to this? can you fill a clear bottle with the fuel and maybe post a pic, or get a good look at it in a large quantity. |
^ +1
I'd still lean towards fuel... If she starts on starting spray, then the spark is good. If she starts on starting spray, then the compression is good. And if she starts on starting spray, then the CAS is in correctly to hit the spark at the right time. |
Originally Posted by Amur_
(Post 9760404)
That was one of the first things I did. :)
And FYI you can rent a fuel pressure gauge set from Advance/Autozone for free. |
i missed that it is starting on starting fluid so flooding is out, do a spray test on the injectors since you're this far and then do a pressure test on the pump, volume doesn't really mean much.
my new bet is on the AFM |
Originally Posted by Amur_
(Post 9759512)
If she starts (or at least reacts to the fuel,) then that means that she isn't seeing fuel during cranking, which brings a whole new puzzle. Anyway, that's for tomorrow. I'm starving, food now! :yum:
You've already verified the injectors spray, so the only logical assumption (This is, of course, if compression isn't a problem) is that they're not spraying enough. So, you either have a fuel pressure issue (unlikely if the car ran fine up until stalling), injectors clogged (again, unlikely), thermosensor issue (possible...), ECU issue (unlikely), or the very highly likely event that unmetered air's screwing your cranking fuel ratio. Put together cheap intake pressure tester and give that a whirl. |
Originally Posted by Karack
(Post 9760833)
i missed that it is starting on starting fluid so flooding is out, do a spray test on the injectors since you're this far and then do a pressure test on the pump, volume doesn't really mean much.
my new bet is on the AFM |
I read through just about everything, but didn't see whether the fuel pump test connector was jumped during any of the cranking attempts (yellow 2-wire connector on shock tower). Any change in behavior if it's jumped?
If the AFM fuel pump switch is bad, then jumping the test connector will allow the pump to run. But another thing to consider is that the AFM fuel pump switch only comes into play when the key is released from the 'START' position and the engine has begun to idle. Start-up fuel delivery bypasses the AFM switch. |
Originally Posted by lastphaseofthis
(Post 9761276)
Thats what i thought also, but the pump runs, and the injectors ARE pulsing, and Spraying, he said he already pulled them out and tried that... i think although the pump is running and pushing fuel after resistance is entered in to the equation the pump is craping out, you maybe able to get away with a new fuel filter and new fuel sock... try try try.
there's just still something missing. a fuel pressure test would still answer a few questions as to whether there is fuel pressure remaining up while cranking. these cars have enough electrical issues that i never rule out anything that i have never seen before because they always tend to have a new problem everytime i look at one. |
Progress!
Finally got to her this afternoon. I managed to get a little gas into the L2 hole before my plastic vet syringe turned into garbage. I reconnected the AFM, put the plug back in, cranked her and she sputtered and tried to start. It was the only time she has done this other than when the Quick Start was used. So there we go - she's starving for gas. I don't have my own pressure tester. Might be able to grab one tomorrow. But... The engine reacted quickly and strongly to the little bit of gas I put into the chamber (and some of that gas would have been tossed out the exhaust port before coming around to the plugs. She almost starts when there's almost no gas in there, plus the previously observed bone-dry plugs says to me that the injectors aren't firing at all during cranking. If they were firing like I observed them firing when I tested them the car would be running right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even if the pressure was abysmally low, some gas would still be reaching the chamber and she would at least be sputtering during cranking. And finally, it makes sense to me that the injectors are at fault and not the fuel system, since nothing of the fuel system other than hard and soft lines would have been in the line of fire of the explosion. Reminder: I did establish earlier that the fuel pump is sending during normal cranking. I think the next step is to determine if the primaries are firing during cranking. I'm thinking that the easiest way to do this is to backstab the ECU pinouts for the trigger wires and crank the car. Correct? I read through just about everything, but didn't see whether the fuel pump test connector was jumped during any of the cranking attempts (yellow 2-wire connector on shock tower). Any change in behavior if it's jumped? |
Yes, backprobe one of the primaries with a jumper wire/miltimeter lead and then ground it repeatedly as you crank the engine (making sure not to ground it for too long at once). Even just one injector firing will be enough to get a reaction.
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Originally Posted by KhanArtisT
(Post 9763587)
Yes, backprobe one of the primaries with a jumper wire/miltimeter lead and then ground it repeatedly as you crank the engine (making sure not to ground it for too long at once). Even just one injector firing will be enough to get a reaction.
I was picturing + probe to the pin and - probe to ground, crank and watch for 12v on the display. I'm not sure what you mean by "ground repeatedly." Will a constant grounding from the probes be either disruptive or damaging? |
Didn't you already once verify that the injectors were firing when triggered? It doesn't seem likely they would've crapped the bed at the same time the radiator went out. If the mixture's lean enough, you likely won't end up with gas on the plugs. My guess is you're either lacking appropriate fuel pressure, or the ECU isn't injecting enough. If the injector wiring's intact, and all that happened was it overheated, I wouldn't really consider them a likely candidate.
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Originally Posted by ifryrice
(Post 9763600)
Didn't you already once verify that the injectors were firing when triggered?
It doesn't seem likely they would've crapped the bed at the same time the radiator went out. If the mixture's lean enough, you likely won't end up with gas on the plugs. My guess is you're either lacking appropriate fuel pressure or the ECU isn't injecting enough. If the injector wiring's intact... I wouldn't really consider them a likely candidate. I'm closing in on this. Not much further to go, I hope. :) |
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