A question for Series Five Non-Turbo owners who know are willing to experiment.
11-21-05, 01:45 AM
#26
I'm a boost creep...
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Coldfire's hit the nail on the head. The relationship chart clearly shows load measured by the AFM is used to trigger the 6PI, not load measured by the MAP sensor. Plus it implies the engine must be warm, the gearbox must be in gear and the clutch released, i.e. you having to be driving! It looks like the only place to really see the S5 6PI system in action is on the dyno.
11-21-05, 03:04 AM
#27
ERTW
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Originally Posted by Mombodogs
Good info coldfire, but I'm not only trying to help Hailers get a definitive answer to his original post, but I am also wanting the answer to how to know if they are actually functioning. I don't have a dyno handy, otherwise I would put in on the dyno and watch as
the rpms and speed increased. Otherwise, I go with the caveman method I tried earlier.
It would be nice to actually know the answer. All the testing is great, if you have something concrete to back up the testing.
PEACE THE DOG
the rpms and speed increased. Otherwise, I go with the caveman method I tried earlier.
It would be nice to actually know the answer. All the testing is great, if you have something concrete to back up the testing.
PEACE THE DOG
a simple thing i did, was just route a piece of long vac hose from the solenoid to the inside of the car. then you can check if air is being blown.
as for if the the actuators move freely, just take a hand/foot pump and pressurize the line, see if they move.
a problem you might have though is that they are a little dirty, so it take more airpump pressure than you might have at 3800rpm.
you could test this, since the FSM gives an actual pressure they should open at, but i'd clean them just to be sure...make sure your airpump is working fine also and giving enough pressure.
- Aaron
Last edited by coldfire; 11-21-05 at 03:07 AM.
11-21-05, 03:14 AM
#28
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OK, I understand exactly what you guys are saying, but reading different past responses, and deciphering the FSM, it seems to imply that your arms can move freely on the actuators, but yet still have a problem internally. When I first started messing with them, the actuator closest to the firewall was sticky, not frozen. After lubrication, it is moveable freely by hand. Not trying to be difficult, I just didn't see them move with electricity, or while driving, I'll try the air trick next.
Sorry guys, just want everything functioning correctly.
PEACE THE DOG
Sorry guys, just want everything functioning correctly.
PEACE THE DOG
11-21-05, 07:46 AM
#29
HAILERS
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Ok. Thanks Mombodogs for trying and COLDFIRE for putting this idea to rest. I don't have a series five but was curious if the ports would open or not as described in my first post.
Mombodogs......do like the manual says. Get two pieces of wire. One to ground and the other to 12vdc pwr. PUll the connector off the BROWN solenoid and attach the two pieces of wire to the contacts on the solenoid. The solenoid should click and if the engine is running the 6PI actuator rods should extend.
Another way to do that is to remove the two hose off the solenoid and connect them together with a piece of vacuum pipe. With the engine running the actuator rods should extend.
On my series four, 1986n/a I can put a long piece of vacuum hose to the input pipe of the auxillary actuators and blow real hard and make the rods retreat (opposite on a series five).
Yeah, I shoulda read that Input/ Output Devices page in the series five FSM.
Mombodogs......do like the manual says. Get two pieces of wire. One to ground and the other to 12vdc pwr. PUll the connector off the BROWN solenoid and attach the two pieces of wire to the contacts on the solenoid. The solenoid should click and if the engine is running the 6PI actuator rods should extend.
Another way to do that is to remove the two hose off the solenoid and connect them together with a piece of vacuum pipe. With the engine running the actuator rods should extend.
On my series four, 1986n/a I can put a long piece of vacuum hose to the input pipe of the auxillary actuators and blow real hard and make the rods retreat (opposite on a series five).
Yeah, I shoulda read that Input/ Output Devices page in the series five FSM.
11-21-05, 12:11 PM
#30
HAILERS
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Originally Posted by NZConvertible
Hailers my good friend, why would you look in the 87 FSM for S5 info? You should know better. 
The Output Devices chart on page F1-77 of the 89 FSM says 3850rpm. For S4's the actual opening 6PI opening rpm will be far less precise due to all the variables affecting exhaust backpressure, particularly once the exhaust is modded. IIRC the 88 FSM doesn't actually mention a specific opening rpm.
As for the secondary injectors, according to my dash-mounted digital injector duty cycle meter (measuring the rear primary injector duty cycle in 1% increments) the secondaries come on at 3800+/-50rpm. Going up a steep hill in 4th gear at ~3/4 throttle allows plenty of time to watch the road and the tacho and the injector duty cycle meter to see when the changeover occurs.
The Output Devices chart on page F1-77 of the 89 FSM says 3850rpm. For S4's the actual opening 6PI opening rpm will be far less precise due to all the variables affecting exhaust backpressure, particularly once the exhaust is modded. IIRC the 88 FSM doesn't actually mention a specific opening rpm.As for the secondary injectors, according to my dash-mounted digital injector duty cycle meter (measuring the rear primary injector duty cycle in 1% increments) the secondaries come on at 3800+/-50rpm. Going up a steep hill in 4th gear at ~3/4 throttle allows plenty of time to watch the road and the tacho and the injector duty cycle meter to see when the changeover occurs.
Tell you what. NZ, If you will, try this for me. Pull the line off the boost sensor and plug it. Then with a fully warmed up engine, slowly rev above 3500 rpm in your driveway. You'll definitly feel a small stumble when the secondary injectors come on. I've done this with two seperate cars and it comes at approx 3640 rpm (Fluke and SAFC). I'm not making trouble, not being a hardhead (yeah, right), but that is the figure I come up with. Thank you.
11-21-05, 08:13 PM
#31
Originally Posted by HAILERS
Another way to do that is to remove the two hose off the solenoid and connect them together with a piece of vacuum pipe. With the engine running the actuator rods should extend.
11-21-05, 08:43 PM
#32
HAILERS
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Originally Posted by beefhole
Should I start the car and have it running to do this method, or remove the hoses and connect them together with the car off, then start it?
11-21-05, 09:30 PM
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Maybe I am losing something in the translation somewhere. I did unplug the brown connector from the solenoid, and attached jumpers to the male ends, one to ground and the other to positive side of battery. No clicking, no extension of the actuators. It's a little dark here now, but I'm going to try the air thing. If they do not extend, does this mean that my solenoid is bad, or my ports frozen? Like I said, I can with my hands, freely move the rods.
PEACE THE DOG
PEACE THE DOG
11-21-05, 09:30 PM
#35
HAILERS
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[QUOTE=beefhole]Will they open right away or I have to rev the motor?[/QUOTE
Right away if your airpump is on the car. If they don't open right away, try reving the engine a little. Still don't work? Stuck actuators.
Right away if your airpump is on the car. If they don't open right away, try reving the engine a little. Still don't work? Stuck actuators.
