Snrub

iTrader: (1)

The car looks like it's in great shape, but if I was going to be paying $4700 USD for a FC, I'd want it to be manual and most likely turbo.

vaughnc

or he swapped the VIN #s (uh oh).

Traiko

Alright... I stopped by today... It was so freaking cold out, and I didn't have a jacket, so my examination was breif. And I didn't testdrive it, I was going to wait till tommorrow. I have an appt setup tommorrow at our local garage to have the car checked.. I'll testdrive then at knock two birds with one stone. Below is a list of things I compiled to check for that I pulled from your replies.

Item- Info.
Leaks- None found under car.
Rust(sunroof/underbody)- Checked sunroof, none found... did a VERY breif underbody examination in the -3* windchill, didn't see anything noticable
Smoke@startup- a puff of powder blue smoke at initial startup. None during second startup.
Check for flooding- After car was running for a good 8-10 minutes, shut car off, started up again fine
Magnet check for bondo- too damn cold to run around car with a magnet. :|
Repaint- Someone mentioned that wasn't factory paint... if it isn't someone went out of their way to take that car down to the bone frame and repaint... the firewall and door trims show same color paint, and no sign of different color overspray.
Contacting the previous owner- Got the owners info out of glovebox. Found out from dealer that he's just holding the car on his lot for a guy. He's selling the car for the owner. So if I call the owner he's just going to tell me what he can to get me to buy it...
Price- They were asking $4760. I talked the guy down to $3800 (woo!)

I also checked for the following things:
Sunroof- works
Air- works
Stereo- works, but antenna motor is busted or something
Lights- work

So what do you guys think about that blue smoke and stuff? The guy said the car was in his lot for 2 weeks. It might not have been started at all during that time, and we had some weird weather.. I didn't notice any smoke at the second startup...

reply! thanks

copandengr

A little puff of blue smoke at start up is not unusual. If that is all it is doing then I would worry about that. As far as flooding you need to start the car, let it run for a minute or two, kill it and try a restart after 30 minutes or more. This will give a leaking injector time enough to do its thing if is going to.

Traiko

I'll take more pics tommorrow as well... My dad thinks(ha, hard to tell sometimes) that the puff of blue smoke is a big deal. That the car is burning oil and that there's something wrong with the valves or something. I didn't pay much attention to him b/c he picks apart every car I look at, and he doesen't know crap about rotary engines. He basically hates them. Hates them because he doesen't understand them. But that's a different story. Is there some documentation somewhere of the cause of this blue smoke, and if it's normal or whatnot?

Thanks!

Traiko

Click here for a blown up version of the engine

ACTION RT

hey man!

holy crap that is a mint fc.. too bad its not a GXL.
And its only a 4-bolt/ automatic

$3800 still sounds very high for a 87 n/a base model.

Nice car though! good luck man!

Action

Traiko

OK... I've done a search on the forums about the blue smoke from the exhaust and I've come to the assumption that it has to do with oil. Now I saw a good few seconds of this blue smoke. It was hard to tell b/c it was cold out, and I saw a lot of steam too. But it definately was a good 5-15 seconds of this blue smoke. Once I revv'd it and let it go the blue smoke dissipated(sp?). Do I have something to worry about? Is this normal for an 87 N/A?

And just for curiousity's sake... What exactly causes this? I don't know much about rotary, but I'm trying to learn as time permits. Please help a young guy who's going paranoid. :\

Flyby116

Well th blus smoke is find and is normal. Rotorys dont have valves so its not leaking dont worry lol. Other then taht the engine will burn about a quart of oil every 500 miles about so it does burn oil to keep the seals and all going. And the car well looks perfect Im guesing a rebuild engine. Other then that though like I warned you above its an Auto....I have one and man it blows! Doesnt move until you hit 20 m.p.h literally. But its your choice and remember it haas 140 h/p stock, I ahve read in an other post that we loose about 36% of torque from or auto t rand and you onyl haveing 140 h/p doesnt help alot. Thats why Im getting the 5 speed put in . But up to you man good luck.

Traiko

Not a rebuild, if you meant that's what you thought that engine was... It's origional miles. The dealer said that the owner bought the car new in 87, and in 91 bought a celica. He let his wife use it to get to work and back since then. They live in manheim... That's what the registration says anyway... The only damage.. I guess you could call it damage, that I saw.. Was the vents on either side of the dash at the top
one on each side... In a triangle shape if i can remember... their covers are.... gone? I don't know... it's jsut 2 big holes with air ducts going through them. nfc why their missing... if anyone has some spares from a parted car, i'd be intrested in them and some other dash pieces that are slighly faded... that is if everything checks out ok with the car and I get it...

RE the 140hp: I'm just looking for a nice sporty car that will hold me over for a couple years. By the time I need a new car (knock on wood) which should be in about 2 years, the price ofa 3rd gen tt should be around my price for one in decent condition. Then I'll be set

Right befor I got my license I got into some finantial issues, and myparents helped out by getting me an eclipse. Boy was that a mistake. Although I'll be forever greatful for them getting me the car, I never hear the end of it. I always 'owe them a favor' and they always bring it up. Finally I told them to take it. Now that I have a nice job and have the time to look for another car, I've decided to get one of my own. Something I origionally planned, but didn't work out. Can't wait till I have a car that's mine mine mine. Some of you youngin's know how it feels :P

Erik

actually i kinda have to disagree...i don't think the motor should burn a whole quart in just 500 miles...it "should" burn a quart between oil changes...which is about 2500 miles or so...

if it burned a quart every 500 miles, not only would you have to put the initial 5 quarts in at the oil change...but 4 MORE QUARTS by the time you changed your oil again? that doens't sound right...

Gamezilla

The car looks to be in AWSOME condition, but since it's a non turbo and and auto, I'd turn it down. If you buy this now, I bet you'll really see that it wasn't worth the money and you'll wish you'd never bought it. TII's are a almost imposibally rare, but they can be found. If you want power, get a TII. If you just want a daily driver, regardless of speed, get the car you're lookin at.

Flyby116

Well you might be right but Ito told me that and so did someone else?? And it turned out to be fairly true on my n/a before it blew.

Traiko

Yeah... I mean. I'm 17. I don't need the flashiest car out there... Even though most typical teens max out their parents cc's on do-dad's for their parent-bought cars. I just want something sporty that will get me from pt. A to pt. B without much hassle. Also... I hate being like everyone else. I could take my 4 grand and go buy some gay civic hatchback and rice it up. But so can everyone else. RX-7's are rare around here... I work at a gas station and I've seen 1 in the last 2 months. And it had out-of-state plates. That was one reason I liked the MX-6... because of the rarity around here. Everyone at school either drives a jetta, a civic, a nx, or a saturn. I'll shoot myself befor I'll sit behind the wheel of a saturn. Jetta's and Civic's just don't sit well with me... and I don't mind NX's too much seing as how I was brought up with nissans. Ah well.. it's late and im starting to babble again.

-jason

Flyby116

LOL well man Im 17 to and worked for it all and believe me it does feel good to have a rare car. Gets alot of looks if you like that kind of thing.
(And this server is alwasy soooo busy )

Traiko

Someone on AIM just messaged me with the screen name R O T A R Y something... I accidentally clicked no when the accept dialog came up... Please resend yer message...

Flyby116

That would be me lol

Gamezilla

I'm 17 right now. My mom gave me her old maxima that she no longer needed. The hood looks like it has calcium deposits (long story which ends with no reason for hood being destroyed like it is). The maxima's great and all, but it's an auto and she treated it like complete crap. I don't think you've gone through a lot of **** if you parents went out and bought you a car. I'm having the maxima taken away from me this summer. I have no choice and am forced to buy my own car, pay for my own repairs, and register for my own insurance.

Trust me, you'll watch as your money slowely dissapears when you go out and buy one car after another. Look around and get a nice TII or at least something 5spd. You don't have to buy any RX7 you come across. If you get a TII I bet you'll love it so much you WON'T want to get rid of it any time soon. Truthfully, you're lookin at one of the worst RX7's ever made. You don't have to settle for that just cause it's in great condition. I bet if you do some lookin you can easily find some other rexs for even cheaper and have much better options.

Flyby116

Im there to but in the end it feels so good to work for your own **** believe me.

Traiko

I never said anything about buying one car after another. My parents bought me a car which I was happy with and greatful for, but I wanted something of my own, hence this car. And again about buying on after another... I don't plan on this thing running for the next 20 years, so When I get the extra money in another year or so from a legal endeavor when I was little... I'm going to get another car to replace this. :\

Felix Wankel

I'd shy away from that car unless you can get it for about 2800. 60K miles or not, its still a base model with an auto.

Also one thing to be leery of is that the auto cars (esp. lady driven) don't get taken to redline very often, which is something that needs to be done (as crazy as it sounds) to keep the carbon buildup down. If you're set on that car, have a compression check done on it.

Traiko

Yeah, when i take it in today... I'm getting a compression check... hopefully this shop can do it... it's a small ma-and-pa shop.. heh

copandengr

It is not my intention to start a flame war here but what I have to say is based on my observations.

The rotary engine is unique in many ways. It is an incredibly complicated design from a manufacturing and machining point of view. From a mechanic's point of view it is a very simple engine when compared to a reciprocating (piston) engine. The rotary has three major moving parts. These are the e-shaft and the two rotors. There are no valve train parts.

A piston engine lubricates the piston rings through the bottom "oil" ring on the piston. This ring is essentially full of holes and it allows oil from under the piston to leak onto the cylinder walls for lubrication. The rotary does not do this. In order for the apex seals to be lubricated the rotary injects a metered amount of oil into the intake manifold. After the car sits for a while this oil that was in the injector lines will leak out into the manifold and cause a puff of smoke upon start up. This smoke may be annoying to a person not used to a rotary but it is normal in my opinion.

There are oil control rings on each side of each rotor. These rings seal the oil that lubes the eccentric shaft bearings and cools the rotors and keep it where it belongs. The oil seal rings normally do not give much trouble unless the engine is run hard before it has a chance to warm up. An engine with bad oil seal rings will smoke a little upon warm up but then smoke heavily upon reaching operating temp. This is because there is a thermostatic valve that allows the cooling oil in the rotor to bypass until the engine is warm. Once the engine has reached operating temp the valve closes and the rotors are then full of pressurized oil. If the seals are bad this is when they will leak the most.

This vehicle appears to be in mint condition. While I agree that an automatic my be sluggish when compared to a manual trans rex I do not think I would dismiss the car as a potential purchase for that reason alone. It is rare to find such a low mileage and obviously well cared for car. You can bet that if the owner took the interest to keep the car clean he also took care of things like oil changes and other maintanence.

This brings me to the end of my opinion. Referring back to the first where I said rotaries inject oil into the manifold to lubricate the apex seals, there lies a problem. Mazda had a marketing decision to make here. I believe they made the wrong choice but what do I know. There are special oils designed to be injected into an engine for lubrication that burn cleanly. I am referring to two stroke oils. Mazda could have designed a reservoir to hold this type of oil and the injection of it would not cause the build up of carbon that is the cause of many rotary engines dieing at 124,000 miles or so. I know, I know, there are rotaries out there with a gazillion miles on them and stiil have the original engine, but I believe these are the rare exceptions. Mazda decided instead to use oil from the oil pan for injecting into the manifold. Regular motor oil is not designed to burn cleanly. When combusted it leaves carbon and ash deposits behind. After the 124K miles or so this carbon can build up to the point where the apex and side seals stick in their grooves. This causes lower compression, loss of power, being flooding prone and otherwise hard to start. The decision Mazda made here was purly a marketing decision. They decided to use crancase oil instead of a reservoir of clean burning two strok oil. I believe they did this because they were afraid the public would percieve this car as then having a cheap two stroke motorcycle type engine. We now live with their bad decision. I believe that a rotary that does not build up carbon on the seals and their grooves would have a very long life indeed.

If this car appeals to you, go ahead and get it. I paid 1,200 bucks for my 86 NA about three years ago. The paint was shot, the interior plastic was all broken up, the mufflers were rotted out, the tranny had bad synchros, the shifter bushings were gone, and lastly the engine flooded all the time and blew up on me before I had the car six months. I would have gladly paid 3,500 dollars to get what cost me 4 K to put together a piece at a time.

As far as the interor plastic vents you are referring to, they are about 20 bucks each from a Mazda dealer. Mazda plastic is notorious for drying out and cracking on ten year old or more cars. It is not due to abuse.

Traiko

Oh my, I must be going blind! Someone stated their opinion... and gave an logical *explaination* of why their opinion is so... THANK YOU copandengr!! That was exactly the kind if information I was looking for.

copandengr

Traiko;
I read your private message and hit the wrong button while trying to reply. Send me an e-mail to copandengr@yahoo.com I will be glad to offer any assistance I can.
J. R.