Mazdanewb

i guess my biggest concern is what engine i am going to be getting rebuilding the 13b na or doing what ever it need to get it running agian might sound like the best bet however i dont wanna spend money on the engine and then turn around and spend more money on the parts to fix other problems that may be with the engine just to turn around yank it out of there and swap the motor and fix and do upgrads and mods to the engine im going to be putting into the rx7.

Really im not just going to swap the engine with a turbo engine and exspect to just go play... i will take my time and replace stuff on the car that may be bad along with the proper upgrades for instance if i get a half brideport done i get a stand alone engine management fuel system suspension,up graded turbo, aftermarket brakes, new exsaust, after market ignition there is alot i plan on doing so i figure i might as well just swap the engine upgrade what i want while the engine is out of the car and then slap it in there along with upgrading everything else that i can.....


everyone i want a Fast enough Rx7 To smoke my buddys corvette...

I want a rx7 that will also be some what reliable when takin care of it properly

im not saying i wanna boost the rotars until the thing blows up but i wanna beable to put 13pounds of boost to the engine over and over and over and over and over again get my drift.....

speaking of drifting i wanna have it more then capable fo that as well

guess im exspecting alot... and i have not enough knowledge at this point to do what i want to do... however when the i get the engine and start from there i will learn much faster hands on and doing research.

i figure with what i want to be able to do its gonna take alot of time money and RESEARCH MOST Important Patiance.. im not exspecting to drive this car for around a year.. even if its not done in a complete year i wont be worried i just want to be able to have a nice looking fast rx7...

And i wanna do as much as the work as i can because that will make me learn more about my car.

And to be honest im still not 100% sure of what kind of engine to swap too i have gotten alot of insight and information from all of you and i thank you for that...

s4 185 horsepower, s5 200 horsepower............ Well the s4 is a little cheaper then the s5, i mean porting the s4 and upgrading the turbo and doing everythine stated above is still in my reach i guess and the fact that it would be a direct fit into my car is not a bad idea at all. 15 horsepower isnt going to matter all that much when i start upgradeing it... i dont really think i will ever really max out what i can do to an s4 with out turning it into a drag car or something lol... so it just makes since to go with the s4... inless anyone else can tell me what the benifits of the s5 will be other then more mid power.. and convince me otherwise...

Evil Aviator

Right, but stock will not beat your friend's Corvette. Let's look at typical horsepower numbers as the modifications increase using the FC3S Pro website stages as a guide (Zenki = S4, Kouki = S5).
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FM2W/power.htm

Stock
S4 182, S5 200

FC3S Pro Stage I
S4 200, S5 220

FC3S Pro Stage II
S4 220, S5 230

FC3S Pro Stage III
S4 250, S5 250

FC3S Pro Stage III+
S4 280, S5 280

FC3S Pro Stage IV (This is where the BNR turbos may come into the picture)
S4 350, S5 350

FC3S Pro Stage IV+
S4 400, S5 400

As you see, there is zero horsepower difference once you start getting into the modifications that are required to compete with your friend's Corvette.

Mazdanewb

WOOT I LOVE IT TY........ i really enjoy the positive help i have been getting on this issue and its nice that u guys are taking time to work with such a newb such as my self so the s4 it is hands down

Evil Aviator

OK, now you need to find out how the car was converted to NA, and whether it still has the TII airflow meter (AFM), ECU, knock control box, pressure sensor, and how much is left of the original engine harness. If it is missing too much of the required system, then if you have the money you may want to consider biting the bullet and installing a standalone EMS ($1,000-$2,500 plus about $500 for base tuning) as opposed to paying a couple hundred dollars for OEM replacements.

When you pick up the car, be sure to ask the owner if he still has any of the original TII parts that he can give you with the car. Besides the above, he may still have the TII throttle cable and downpipe hanging around in his garage.

Mazdanewb

yeah once i get it to my house i will be able to start ripping into it.... i will probly get a standalone ems system either way gonna have to get one down the road when i want it built up..... any ideas on what a decent one for around 1200 would be?

name ect i will search around on the thread but figured i would ask since im replying..

I LOVE THE INFO MAN UR FREAKING AWSOME..... TY VERY MUCH

Evil Aviator

The best way to choose an EMS is to find out what has local support in your region. You can install it yourself if you have the mechanical skills to install an advanced stereo system, but the initial tuning and fine tuning is extremely difficult unless somebody can show you first-hand how to do it. It would be optimal to have professional support (about $500 for base tuning), but even an experienced friend is better than nothing. I would highly discourage you from relying on the internet or a phone call for tuning support. Every EMS does about the same thing, and I am not aware of any that are bad (although a do-it-yourself kit like the MegaSquirt is a bad idea for a noob), so it really comes down to support. Check the NW forum to see what the FC RX-7 owners in your city are using. I know that at least the Microtech LT-8s is in your price range, and the Haltech E6X, E8, and new Platinum 1000 are pretty close to your price range.
https://www.rx7club.com/nw-rx-7-forum-33/

Oh, and three important notes about the EMS:
1. If you want/need a new ignition system, buy it at the same time as your EMS so that you are sure to get a good match. Some EMS companies even sell an ignition system specifically to work well with their EMS.
2. Some EMS products are factory-set for a specific engine. Keep this in mind so that you don't accidentally buy one that is set for a different engine. The advantage of this is that you don't need to spend much time on the initial EMS setup, and you don't have to understand complicated things like waste spark and dwell in order to run a rotary engine. The down side is that in order to run an engine besides a 1Gen or 2Gen 13B, the EMS usually needs to be sent back to Austrailia for reconfiguration and a fee of several hundred dollars. Don't get stuck with a Honda EMS.
3. Any universal EMS which can run a 4-cylinder piston engine should be able to run a 2-rotor 13B, but the EMS needs to have a special rotary engine function if you want to run a timing split on the leading and trailing spark plugs. It is better to stick with an EMS designed for a rotary engine when possible. As long as you choose an EMS that others in your area are using on their FC RX-7s, then this shouldn't be an issue. I only say this because in my years on this forum I have seen some people buy strange EMS products that no RX-7 owners use, and then they post for months on this forum asking for help... and there is none.

I'm stuck at home with a bad knee, so I'm glad to help, lol. Just one more day and I get to go back to work.

Mazdanewb

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/perf...es/Air_Intakes

found some pretty good stuff here at this sight......'


http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/perf...nt_Stand_Alone

i have seen alot of people using the haltech ems...

got so much i wanna do

Mazdanewb

http://got-jdm.com/8688-jdm-13bt-s4-...ncut-p-67.html

Considering Buying this Engine on the 22nd...

also considering as well as getting a haltech Cpu at the same time

As well id like to be able to port the engine when it gets here im still doing soe looking around as far as the engine goes anyone find a better deal then that one there let me know

Evil Aviator

You don't need to spend a lot of money on that fancy stuff, and most of those kits have a lot of unnecessary parts if you are going to run a standalone EMS. Here are some more common options to the expensive pre-made kits. Many people build a "cold air" box around the filter so that the hot discharge air from the radiator and/or intercooler does not get sucked into the engine.

Engine with the stock AFM (without air pump):
Pictures: http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/FCRaceIntake.html
http://www.banzai-racing.com/kornbau...e_08-23-06.jpg
Parts list:
- Cone filter
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm
- AFM adapter
http://rx7cz.net/shop/
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=639
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fcintake.html
- Metal bracket and screws to hold the AFM. You can get this from a stereo shop or hardware store.

Engine with the stock AFM (with air pump):
Picture: http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/FCStreetIntake.html
Parts list:
- Cone filter
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm
- AFM adapter
http://rx7cz.net/shop/
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=639
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fcintake.html
- Metal bracket and screws to hold the AFM. You can get this from a stereo shop or hardware store.
-"Crankcase vent" filter mounted to the air pump hose. You can get the filter from any auto parts store. The brand doesn't matter much. http://www.knfilters.com/vent.htm

Engine with a standalone EMS (no AFM):
Picture: http://www.banzai-racing.com/2008_cu...e_03-06-09.jpg
Parts: Cone filter simply attached directly to the turbo. http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm

You can search the 2Gen forum for "CAI" to see a billion different variations of the above examples of homemade intake systems.

The Apexi and K&N filters are generally considered the better filters of the bunch. I happen to like the K&N because it can be cleaned and re-oiled to last a million miles or 10 years, and nearly every professional race team uses it. There is an infomercial running around the internet that supposedly shows that the Apexi filter is the best thing since sliced bread, but it was produced by biased Apexi dealers using unscientific methods, which makes me suspicious even though I think the filter is pretty good. The HKS filter gets dirty pretty fast and is not cleanable, but it is a nice complete kit and it looks the best in my opinion, making it a good choice for a show car. I wouldn't recommend buying a cheapie off-brand Ebay filter for a turbocharged engine, as they have been known to tear under pressure and reversion waves, causing parts and pieces to get sucked into the engine.

Stupid Evil Aviator K&N filter sizing rule of thumb:
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/air-filter-size-effect-power-807708/

Keep an eye out in the group buy forums for Haltech and other EMS brands. You can usually save about $200 that way.

Mazdanewb

RX7 Parts
Blow off valve HKS
Hks Hi-Power Exhaust
Fcs4 ebgine
Stage 3 Clutch f1 racing
Act Prolite Flywheel
Intercooler front mount
Roll Cage
t4/t66 turbo charger
Hks Fuel computer
Walbro Fuel Pump
Front and rear suspension YELLOW koni
Steel braided Brake Lines
Haltech platinum Sport ECU
Pwr racing radiator
Duraflex body kit
Engine porting
enine pinning
2xracing bucket seats
Paint and body work done
Rx7 mirrors
stereo equipment
Alarm system
Shaved door handles and popers
Brakes
Rims

Evil Aviator

Is that a wish list? Those parts sound pretty good, but I think there are a few minor glitches, such as I am pretty sure there is no HKS Hi-Power exhaust available for the FC RX-7, the T66 turbo is probably a bit big, pinning may not be necessary, the HKS Fuel Computer would not be needed if a Haltech EMS is used, etc.

The other forum members and I can maybe help you fine tune that list if you answer the two following questions about the intended purpose of your car:

1) Level
A. Streetable
B. Barely Streetable
C. Not Streetable

2) Type
A. Drag Race
B. Autocross, Road Race, or Rally
C. Drift or Show

Mazdanewb

Yeah its a wish list but not even close to out of reach think it may take around a year to get everything i want... But when completed it will be worth it to me... i also want to beable to to use 3mm apex seals i will do some more research with them before i decide for sure just was thinking there tougher...


Exsaust
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HKS-H...Q5fAccessories


Well i would have to answer b/b i dont want to risk losing reliability this will not be my only car so it wont be driven that often ... i want it to be super fast like i said goal is to leave my friends corvette in the smoke weather it be on a 1/4 mile or in the country on sharp corners... I will take the Fuel computer off my list was just going through thinking of things i will need to upgrade another thing i forgot to mention would probly be the fuel injectors... with that i will look into diffrent turbos, i have just seen alot of people using them...

Evil Aviator

OK, that is a Silent Hi-Power Exhaust, which is different than a Hi-Power Exhaust. Hopefully that vendor is OK, but always check to make sure a vendor is an authorized HKS dealer, as there are a lot of fake HKS parts out there.

A drag build is totally different than a road race build, which is why I separated those categories. You can compromise between the two, but then the car will not be competitive in either category. As far as engines go, the main difference is that a drag car will tend to have massive power, a lot of turbo lag, and poor throttle response, while a road race car will tend to have OK power, little or no lag, and excellent throttle response.

It is a good idea to try and decide what you want because it will affect which parts you will add to the car. For example, a drag race NHRA spec roll cage is not the same as a road race SCCA roll cage. I am thinking that you probably don't want to spend $1,500-$2,000 on the cage, only to have the technical inspectors fail your car at your first race.

There will be a lot of things that you will forget, as well as things that didn't work out like you thought, and you will also change your mind. If engineering were a perfect science then there would be no such thing as test pilots and crash test dummies.

A T66 turbo is typical for a drag car, but would drive horribly on a road race car which will tend to have a smaller turbo in the 60-1 to T61 range. The 3mm apex seals and pinning the motor are also drag race mods that you will not typically see on road race engines. Therefore, it sounds to me like most of your friends are drag racers, so you may want to consider going that route. I personally like road racing better, but to each his own. Anyway, when choosing a turbo, make sure you get a good name brand (Garrett, Turbonetics, etc.), and always choose the wet bearing (water cooled) option which is well worth the small amount of money that it costs.

Mazdanewb

Well i like road racing better too....I dont want a car that will not handle good around corners... so what size garrett or turbonetics would you think would be best with that being said? Yeah the 3mm apex are a drag item along with pinning the engine but wouldnt that make my engine tougher? thinking of only going for a half brdgeport... or streetport dont know exactly which one..

Jimmy2222

iTrader: (3)

If you're going to be using your car on the street and/or DD'ing you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of a crisper throttle response and still making a decent amount of power.

I don't know what kind of corvette your friend has but I'm guessing he has somewhere in the range of 350-430 hp and weighs about 3200 pounds (if he's stock). From your set up, I'm guessing you'll be making anywhere from high 300's to mid 400's on a streetport or half bridge respectively with a smaller turbo. I don't think you'll need a T66, it will probably lag pretty bad and be a bit excessive (unless he has a ZR1 or something).

But yeah, will you be running this on the strip mostly, dalying it mostly or road racing it?

I'm not a huge expert, just passing on advice I have been given and info I've taken in.

Mazdanewb

yeah im gonna find a smaller turbo also its going to be kind of a weekend warrior maybe nice days drive it to work or take it to the coast at a insane speed ... he has ls1 its a older corvette and it is completely stock... I am ALL ABOUT ROAD RACING... Im not a big drag strip fan.... i dont want a car that is only good for a 1/4 mile lol it has to corner like a champ

Evil Aviator

A friend of mine had a SPO RX-7 road race car with a street ported engine and a T61 turbo which made 442hp on pump gas, and he blew past most of the other cars at Daytona. He decided to "upgrade" to a T64, and the car was slower, lol. Therefore, a T61 is probably as big as you want to go. The TS04 (aka T58) is popular for race engines around 400hp. If you don't mind spending the extra money for a fast spool and excellent efficiency, the GT35R is the top of the line. At the lower end, the 60-1 and T04E "60" are popular for the 300-400hp range, and are good turbos for those who want to run under 15psi boost to reduce costs and increase reliability.

Yeah, that will make your engine tougher... to afford, lol.

Seriously though, the 2mm vs. 3mm seal issue is up to you. Just keep in mind that the 3mm seals require a professional machinist to mill grooves in the rotors.

The doweling is required around 400bhp, but it is a waste of money for anything below that.

Just keep in mind that you are looking at about $6,000-10,000 for a quality rebuild with porting, doweling, 3mm seals, and other go-fast goodies.

88project

thanks for your thread man i learned alot about what i wanna plan on with my 88fc. lol great support guys

Mazdanewb

yeah i priced everything out here its gonna be a little over 9k for everything on my list.. and just incase i do hit above 400hp with everything i want to do i wanna make sure i have the engine pinned and 3mm apex seals.... i was thinking about buying a block that is already set up the way i want it to be...

think they have some on ebay... along with some other sites i have been chaecking out..

yeah i have learned alot from this thread as well its been great help Thank you evil for all ur info!!!!

Mazdanewb

Hey Just wondering if someone in my area knows where i can get the engine ported???? and possibly pinned?

Evil Aviator

No, I mean $6-10K for just the engine block. That does not include the EMS, tuning, suspension, turbo & manifold, wastegate, radiator, intercooler and plumbing, exhaust, etc. You are looking at about $20-25K for the whole car if you buy new parts and pay for most of the labor. That is why a lot of people stay below the 400hp range, lol.

Ask in your regional forum:
https://www.rx7club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Also, you can ship the engine to many professional shops, or you can just buy the engine made to order. My friend's T61 SPO engine was built by ISC Racing, which is one of the most respected engine builders in SCCA IT and EP racing.
http://www.iscracing.net/

You can get a custom engine from other shops like Racing Beat, Mazdatrix, Pineapple Racing, Atkins, etc.
http://www.racingbeat.com/
http://www.mazdatrix.com/
http://www.pineappleracing.com/
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/

Mazdanewb

You my friend are a great help to this sight.... Im Very happy that we have crossed paths on my rx7 journey

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

i felt as ive lost a few brain cells reading this....
TwEaK

slpin

iTrader: (9)

do not get 3mm seals.

Mazdanewb

Yeah im not going to get the 3mm apex seals i did some more research