The Projekt: JDM brew Twin Turbo into an 88.
06-03-08, 06:34 PM
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The Projekt: JDM brew Twin Turbo into an 88.
First of all the engine and tranny are both in. Converted to single turbo also. Hopefully that is the worst of this project. Can someone please post a link of another project like this so I can run off that for the finishing touches?
06-03-08, 08:06 PM
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Well atm putting in the radiator and wiring the battery to the back. Everything should be done except things like hooking up the speedo, radiator, wiring the battery in the back and getting the smaller things up and running. Then I'll tune the turbo but I'm running the stock ecu atm. I was really looking for a thread of a completed project but I guess I'll just ask questions as they come.
06-03-08, 08:11 PM
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The oil lines and some adapters should be the biggest thing after you solve the mounting problems IIRC. That and an EMS. Good luck 
Oh, is it streetported, bridgeported, etc? You can run it off the stock ecu depending...but you'll at least want a safc until you get a standalone if you don't have have one waiting already
Oh, is it streetported, bridgeported, etc? You can run it off the stock ecu depending...but you'll at least want a safc until you get a standalone if you don't have have one waiting already
06-03-08, 08:17 PM
#7
i got custom made lines for mine(using stock oil cooler)i mounted my engine using the stock T2 mounts(i copied and idea that RETED posted on his website about drilling and taping the center iron to use the stock mounts) pan,front cover,water pump,T2 coils and cas,using a s5 T2 tranny
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06-03-08, 08:38 PM
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I'm using the third gen tranny and engine. Second Gen ignition although that may change when I get everything running. Lines already ran. Turbo hooked up with all the blockoffs and lines. At the moment stock ecu. You say REted has a site with info? I'll have to check that out. As for pics, they'll come. But I work sixty hours weeks currently so this may take a while.
06-04-08, 12:34 PM
#9
Stock FD ECU is not going to work [well enough for the car to drive decently] for you man, you will throw a gazillion codes unless you managed to get the sequential system hooked up right or you installed a bunch of resistors on the solenoid.
Do yourself a favor and go standalone...
Do yourself a favor and go standalone...
06-04-08, 02:23 PM
#10
I'll never understand how these people think the stock **** can handle this stuff when your cross platform and it's not stock setup.
Oh, I'm running XX motor with XX after market turbo on XX stock ecu.
I guess it gives the rest of us a better chance at grabbing a perfectly good 13BT since they're scooping up the "Rare and tyte" engines.
Oh, I'm running XX motor with XX after market turbo on XX stock ecu.
I guess it gives the rest of us a better chance at grabbing a perfectly good 13BT since they're scooping up the "Rare and tyte" engines.
06-04-08, 02:51 PM
#11
The Firestarter
I'll never understand how these people think the stock **** can handle this stuff when your cross platform and it's not stock setup.
Oh, I'm running XX motor with XX after market turbo on XX stock ecu.
I guess it gives the rest of us a better chance at grabbing a perfectly good 13BT since they're scooping up the "Rare and tyte" engines.
Oh, I'm running XX motor with XX after market turbo on XX stock ecu.
I guess it gives the rest of us a better chance at grabbing a perfectly good 13BT since they're scooping up the "Rare and tyte" engines.
06-05-08, 12:21 PM
#12
Engine, Not Motor
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Well atm putting in the radiator and wiring the battery to the back. Everything should be done except things like hooking up the speedo, radiator, wiring the battery in the back and getting the smaller things up and running. Then I'll tune the turbo but I'm running the stock ecu atm. I was really looking for a thread of a completed project but I guess I'll just ask questions as they come.
09-05-08, 11:45 AM
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If you intend to actually drive the car under boost, you need to swap out the stock FD ECU with something that doesn't suck. It cannot compensate for the increased airflow from a larger turbocharger and you will pop the engine. There's a reason that all FDs who have gone single turbo have an aftermarket EMS.
Any recomendations on slimline fans?
Also if anyone has a suggestion about which aftermarket ecu is the best choice for the lowest cost it would be greatly appreciated. I'm also currently looking for someone in the erie pa area that can dyno tune my beast when I get it done. I'm not looking to run 500 hp or anything at the moment I just don't want a non tuned turbo to destroy a project I worked months on.
Pictures will be coming soon.
Oh, one more question. I put the rad in and I had to use bendable pipes because of the fitment, the tube is touching the bottom of the block. Will this eventually where through it or am I alright?
09-05-08, 12:00 PM
#14
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Specifically, you mention:
1) dash - specifically, tach / oil pressure / speedo / water temp / boost(?)
Tach - dunno if you can just splice in a single wire off the FD ignitor, but the stock FC ignition uses a wire off the trailing coil pack. The FD stock ECU *cannot* control the stock FC ignition coils.
Oil pressure - dunno if the senders are compatible, as Mazda lists different part numbers
Speedo - FD uses an electronic speedo, so it will not work with the mechanical speedo the FC uses
Boost (if using an FC turbo intrument cluster) - not scaled right, as the stock FD boost sensor is a different range
2) headlights - the has nothing to do with the stock FC (of FD) ECU
The stock FD uses a boost sensor that reads up to 17psi or about 1.2bar of pressure.
The stock FC turbo uses a boost sensor that reads up to 15psi or about 1.0bar of pressure.
Although they are very close, I would not recommend mixing them up.
The stock FD ignition system uses a discrete 3-channel ignitor that control the coil packs located on the engine itself.
The stock FC ignition system uses discrete ignitors (located in each coil pack base) - the leadings are fairly simple with a single-channel ignitor firing a twin tower coil, but the trailings use a signal channel + toggle channel to control the two (front trailing and rear trailing) coils.
If it's not obvious, it's next to impossible to mix-n-match these ignition systems; you either gotta go all FD or all FC on your ignition system, which means all the way from the ECU to the ignition coils.
Since you're already insisting on the stock FD ECU, you need the stock FD ignitor and stock FD coil packs.
These are just some of the major difference between the two cars.
I'm sure there are smaller, more minor, ones that'll pop up.
-Ted
09-05-08, 12:58 PM
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Me and my friend have been working on a similar project it starts just needs a fan and timed then off to tuning. We left the stock twins on there for now and put an e6x in there. oh ya its a vert too
09-05-08, 02:20 PM
#16
As soon as you get the car to even start on the FD stock ECU you will have to undo all your wiring to install an EMS. You're creating more work for yourself. Haltech or Microtech with a flying lead harness is your best option, mated to the FC body harnesses.
09-06-08, 11:56 AM
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It is going to take you forever...
Specifically, you mention:
1) dash - specifically, tach / oil pressure / speedo / water temp / boost(?)
Tach - dunno if you can just splice in a single wire off the FD ignitor, but the stock FC ignition uses a wire off the trailing coil pack. The FD stock ECU *cannot* control the stock FC ignition coils.
Oil pressure - dunno if the senders are compatible, as Mazda lists different part numbers
Speedo - FD uses an electronic speedo, so it will not work with the mechanical speedo the FC uses
Boost (if using an FC turbo intrument cluster) - not scaled right, as the stock FD boost sensor is a different range
2) headlights - the has nothing to do with the stock FC (of FD) ECU
The stock FD uses a boost sensor that reads up to 17psi or about 1.2bar of pressure.
The stock FC turbo uses a boost sensor that reads up to 15psi or about 1.0bar of pressure.
Although they are very close, I would not recommend mixing them up.
The stock FD ignition system uses a discrete 3-channel ignitor that control the coil packs located on the engine itself.
The stock FC ignition system uses discrete ignitors (located in each coil pack base) - the leadings are fairly simple with a single-channel ignitor firing a twin tower coil, but the trailings use a signal channel + toggle channel to control the two (front trailing and rear trailing) coils.
If it's not obvious, it's next to impossible to mix-n-match these ignition systems; you either gotta go all FD or all FC on your ignition system, which means all the way from the ECU to the ignition coils.
Since you're already insisting on the stock FD ECU, you need the stock FD ignitor and stock FD coil packs.
These are just some of the major difference between the two cars.
I'm sure there are smaller, more minor, ones that'll pop up.
-Ted
Specifically, you mention:
1) dash - specifically, tach / oil pressure / speedo / water temp / boost(?)
Tach - dunno if you can just splice in a single wire off the FD ignitor, but the stock FC ignition uses a wire off the trailing coil pack. The FD stock ECU *cannot* control the stock FC ignition coils.
Oil pressure - dunno if the senders are compatible, as Mazda lists different part numbers
Speedo - FD uses an electronic speedo, so it will not work with the mechanical speedo the FC uses
Boost (if using an FC turbo intrument cluster) - not scaled right, as the stock FD boost sensor is a different range
2) headlights - the has nothing to do with the stock FC (of FD) ECU
The stock FD uses a boost sensor that reads up to 17psi or about 1.2bar of pressure.
The stock FC turbo uses a boost sensor that reads up to 15psi or about 1.0bar of pressure.
Although they are very close, I would not recommend mixing them up.
The stock FD ignition system uses a discrete 3-channel ignitor that control the coil packs located on the engine itself.
The stock FC ignition system uses discrete ignitors (located in each coil pack base) - the leadings are fairly simple with a single-channel ignitor firing a twin tower coil, but the trailings use a signal channel + toggle channel to control the two (front trailing and rear trailing) coils.
If it's not obvious, it's next to impossible to mix-n-match these ignition systems; you either gotta go all FD or all FC on your ignition system, which means all the way from the ECU to the ignition coils.
Since you're already insisting on the stock FD ECU, you need the stock FD ignitor and stock FD coil packs.
These are just some of the major difference between the two cars.
I'm sure there are smaller, more minor, ones that'll pop up.
-Ted
I have the 3rd gen coils on the back of the engine toward the fire wall already installed i believe.
"Speedo - FD uses an electronic speedo, so it will not work with the mechanical speedo the FC uses"
AAAAAAAHHHHH! So now I find an electric speedo and mount it somewhere?"Since you're already insisting on the stock FD ECU, you need the stock FD ignitor and stock FD coil packs."
Well I'm not really insisting. I'm just poor as hell from the random nickle and dimes this thing constantly throws at me. So when the money shot from the ecu hits me it's going to get rough.
Just a question since you seem pretty knowledgable in this subject. My apexi should plug right in to the third gen wiring harness correct? What do I need a commander for? Datalogic? I know the commander is for editting and the logit is for info but do I really need these atm?
Oh I spliced the plugs to headlight motors, and plugged the headlights in. No biggy.
Please link me to your thread if you have one. This would be greatly appreciated. What kind of fan are you going with?
09-06-08, 12:34 PM
#18
You can most likely get the FD speedo to work.You didn't mention which tranny you are using.If it's an FC tranny you can use this from dakota digital if the FD speedo uses a pulse-rate generator above 8k.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd126.htm
and there is also a universal pulse-rate generator they sell to adapt the mech. drive gear.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd126.htm
and there is also a universal pulse-rate generator they sell to adapt the mech. drive gear.
09-06-08, 12:40 PM
#20
BTW theres a way to fix the probelm with the coils. look at banzai racing write up in their website that explain how to wire up the trailing coils to work with the PFC. i dont know if it works with the stock FD ecu but i know it works with the PFC
09-07-08, 08:21 PM
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Also... I might have realized something that was there all along that will make my project cake. Since I already have the 3rd gen tranny, wiring harness, engine in the car... why not just stay with the 3rd gen dash? Has anyone ever seen this done before? If not the whole dash then I'll keep the cluster at least to save some problems.
09-07-08, 11:00 PM
#22
Since you have FD coils and ignitor box, if they are wired properly you should be good to go as long as you also have the FD hall effect sensor (CAS) and all the other ignition stuff for it. You also need to be mindful of the fuel pump wiring.
If you have in fact managed to install an FD engine harness you could run a Power FC, but there will be some wiring adjustments to be made. Compare to the ECU pinouts of the FD and the s4 turbo FC... or is this a nonturbo FC chassis? It affects some of the wiring (mostly the alternator).
The FD has 4 plugs which go to the ECU, and I'm not sure if all 4 of them are on the harness you acquired. The FC has 3 plugs, and only 2 of those are connected to the emissions harness, one comes from the front harness (which connects to a bunch of other crap in the car). Some of those wires will probably have to go somewhere and are not taken care of just by having the FD main EFI harness. You will need to go pin by pin to verify every wire is hooked in correctly. This is why a lot of people would say you'd be better off going Haltech, although having the FD harness may reduce some of the work. It's not going to be "plug and play" by any means.
And wait a minute, is this a JDM FD harness? The JDM FD harness doesn't have an electrical load detector computer (ELD) thing I think. Your idle speed controller (ISC/BAC) is basically worthless unless you have the ELD computer working. So block it off. You better get your hands on some JDM wiring diagrams or general JDM wiring information. And yes you will need to buy a Datalogit, that's $300 right there.
If I were to ever install an REW in an FC I would tap the center iron for FC engine mounts, install an FC front cover, and use as much FC wiring and plumbing as possible to eliminate this kind of nightmare crap. I would also use an FC turbo II tranny and an FC diff, they are equal or superior (well for straight line at least).
If you have in fact managed to install an FD engine harness you could run a Power FC, but there will be some wiring adjustments to be made. Compare to the ECU pinouts of the FD and the s4 turbo FC... or is this a nonturbo FC chassis? It affects some of the wiring (mostly the alternator).
The FD has 4 plugs which go to the ECU, and I'm not sure if all 4 of them are on the harness you acquired. The FC has 3 plugs, and only 2 of those are connected to the emissions harness, one comes from the front harness (which connects to a bunch of other crap in the car). Some of those wires will probably have to go somewhere and are not taken care of just by having the FD main EFI harness. You will need to go pin by pin to verify every wire is hooked in correctly. This is why a lot of people would say you'd be better off going Haltech, although having the FD harness may reduce some of the work. It's not going to be "plug and play" by any means.
And wait a minute, is this a JDM FD harness? The JDM FD harness doesn't have an electrical load detector computer (ELD) thing I think. Your idle speed controller (ISC/BAC) is basically worthless unless you have the ELD computer working. So block it off. You better get your hands on some JDM wiring diagrams or general JDM wiring information. And yes you will need to buy a Datalogit, that's $300 right there.
If I were to ever install an REW in an FC I would tap the center iron for FC engine mounts, install an FC front cover, and use as much FC wiring and plumbing as possible to eliminate this kind of nightmare crap. I would also use an FC turbo II tranny and an FC diff, they are equal or superior (well for straight line at least).
Last edited by arghx; 09-07-08 at 11:10 PM.
09-08-08, 10:46 AM
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Sorry there is no write up for it, i have not had time to put one together as we go i am just working on it in my free time. We are going to use a Jeep Liberty fan. Stock 3rd gen everything except ecu (haltech internal MAF), TPS, water, air, relays, and eliminated sequential setup for now and will probably put a larger turbo on in the future.
09-08-08, 10:41 PM
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http://www.banzai-racing.com/product...ss_adapter.htm
Will this allow me to use the non turbo, fd cluster I have? Turn signals and all? I already have all the wires plugged into the ecu but I have the 3rd gen cluster in atm. If I have to I'll cut out the dash and stuff the 3rd gen in there. I'm really at a loss as to what I should do with this. I believe that if I just took the 3rd gen cluster, cut off the lights on the sides (highbeam, charge battery, seat belts, etc) folded the floppy circuit panel under and stuffed it in I would be ten steps ahead. I would have the tach, speedo and all the gauges and I would know they were the right one. I could also mount the steer wheel assembly in there too... hmm. Does anyone have a 3rd gen dash for sale? Maybe i'll just swap out the whole thing. ( Can't use mine, RHD)
Will this allow me to use the non turbo, fd cluster I have? Turn signals and all? I already have all the wires plugged into the ecu but I have the 3rd gen cluster in atm. If I have to I'll cut out the dash and stuff the 3rd gen in there. I'm really at a loss as to what I should do with this. I believe that if I just took the 3rd gen cluster, cut off the lights on the sides (highbeam, charge battery, seat belts, etc) folded the floppy circuit panel under and stuffed it in I would be ten steps ahead. I would have the tach, speedo and all the gauges and I would know they were the right one. I could also mount the steer wheel assembly in there too... hmm. Does anyone have a 3rd gen dash for sale? Maybe i'll just swap out the whole thing. ( Can't use mine, RHD)
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