Problem with starting my new 7 PLEASE READ NEVER HEARD OF THIS BEFORE
01-05-09, 09:08 PM
#26
Senior Member
Thread Starter
This is my new theory....
The fuel pump gave out while this guy (the guy I bought it from) was driving he said it poped and lost power and would not start so I thought it was blown due to the sound i had never heard before.. I dont think its flooded I think the opposite.. is this possible?
what do you think Icemark?
The fuel pump gave out while this guy (the guy I bought it from) was driving he said it poped and lost power and would not start so I thought it was blown due to the sound i had never heard before.. I dont think its flooded I think the opposite.. is this possible?
what do you think Icemark?
01-06-09, 07:17 AM
#29
dude your motor is not blown. I guarantee it. When I had my 86 base it would get flooded to the point where it would be a high whine. Just pull your plug out and remove the efi fuse. Crank it with the plug out and maybe even put new ones in. Crank it over for about 7 seconds about five or six times. Put some oil in the leading plug holes, replace fuse and crank and it should start after screwing with it. Your fuel pump would have nothing to do with this.
01-06-09, 10:19 AM
#30
1990 T2
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Weirton WV
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you pull the plugs and crank it, does a cloud of gas and oil come out of the spark plug holes? If you can see the cloud of gas and you can smell gas, the fuel pump should be OK.
Can you find somebody to push the 7? Push starting works fairly good.
This is how I would do it.
Do you have access to another vehicle that you can use to jump the battery in the 7? IF not, make sure battery is fully charged.
Pull both fuses that are closest to the engine. Pull the lower 2 plugs. Crank the engine over for about 5 - 7 seconds, pause, and then crank it over again. Do this until the cylinders are free of gas and oil.
I use mothers mystery oil. But motor oil will do. Squirt a few ounces into each of the lower spark plug holes. Reinstall the spark plugs. Reinstall the fuses.
Try to start it. .
A fuel pump cut-off switch would really be useful.
Fuel cut off switch
The "band aid" cure for cars which flood consistently is to install a toggle switch which will control the fuel pump. Note that the only cures for consistent flooding are cleaning/rebuilding injectors, rebuilding the engine, or finishing rebuild breakin. I like to install my cutoff switch right behind the keyhole in the lower column surround, but anywhere within easy reach will work. I use a toggle switch available at radio shack for about 2 dollar, called a rocker switch. IT is solid black, very slimline(maximum protrusion 1/8") and fits perfectly. You can use any toggle switch however.
1) Obtain the following: 2 prong, 2 position toggle switch, at least 2 feet length of 16-14 gauge wire, 2 female speaker terminal connectors(quick connect), 2 wire taps(vampire taps) and wire crimpers/strippers. Vampire taps join one wire beside another, when a metal strip gets pushed down connecting the 2 wires. A clean way to connect 2 wires.
2) Remove column cover and install the toggle switch in its position(or wherever else you want).
3) Locate the fuelpump relay under the dash. Located between the radio and the steering column, it is a black relay with a white, 5 wire plug.
4) Cut the fuelpump control wire: of the 5 wire plug, cut the middle wire of the 5.
5) Run wires from the toggle switch to each of the ends you just cut and connect them all. Which wire goes to which end does not matter, there is no polarity here, only continuity.
6) Put everything back together. Your switch is now installed.
7) To operate it, figure out which way is on and which is off. I like to orient off downward.
8) With the car running, flip the switch off and allow the engine to stall. Remove your key, and leave the switch off. The fuelpump cuts off, and the engine drinks all the fuel in the line until it is gone, which means there is none left to flood the engine later.
9) When restarting, insert key, crank car, and flip on switch WHILE cranking. The fuelpump will come to life, shoot fuel into the engine, and it will start normally. Flooring the gas is sometimes helpful but not required.
10) Some cars may even start for a second before the switch is flipped, from residual fuel in the rail. In this case, the procedure should be to insert key and turn, car will start, then flip switch on immediately to keep it running.
Can you find somebody to push the 7? Push starting works fairly good.
This is how I would do it.
Do you have access to another vehicle that you can use to jump the battery in the 7? IF not, make sure battery is fully charged.
Pull both fuses that are closest to the engine. Pull the lower 2 plugs. Crank the engine over for about 5 - 7 seconds, pause, and then crank it over again. Do this until the cylinders are free of gas and oil.
I use mothers mystery oil. But motor oil will do. Squirt a few ounces into each of the lower spark plug holes. Reinstall the spark plugs. Reinstall the fuses.
Try to start it. .
A fuel pump cut-off switch would really be useful.
Fuel cut off switch
The "band aid" cure for cars which flood consistently is to install a toggle switch which will control the fuel pump. Note that the only cures for consistent flooding are cleaning/rebuilding injectors, rebuilding the engine, or finishing rebuild breakin. I like to install my cutoff switch right behind the keyhole in the lower column surround, but anywhere within easy reach will work. I use a toggle switch available at radio shack for about 2 dollar, called a rocker switch. IT is solid black, very slimline(maximum protrusion 1/8") and fits perfectly. You can use any toggle switch however.
1) Obtain the following: 2 prong, 2 position toggle switch, at least 2 feet length of 16-14 gauge wire, 2 female speaker terminal connectors(quick connect), 2 wire taps(vampire taps) and wire crimpers/strippers. Vampire taps join one wire beside another, when a metal strip gets pushed down connecting the 2 wires. A clean way to connect 2 wires.
2) Remove column cover and install the toggle switch in its position(or wherever else you want).
3) Locate the fuelpump relay under the dash. Located between the radio and the steering column, it is a black relay with a white, 5 wire plug.
4) Cut the fuelpump control wire: of the 5 wire plug, cut the middle wire of the 5.
5) Run wires from the toggle switch to each of the ends you just cut and connect them all. Which wire goes to which end does not matter, there is no polarity here, only continuity.
6) Put everything back together. Your switch is now installed.
7) To operate it, figure out which way is on and which is off. I like to orient off downward.
8) With the car running, flip the switch off and allow the engine to stall. Remove your key, and leave the switch off. The fuelpump cuts off, and the engine drinks all the fuel in the line until it is gone, which means there is none left to flood the engine later.
9) When restarting, insert key, crank car, and flip on switch WHILE cranking. The fuelpump will come to life, shoot fuel into the engine, and it will start normally. Flooring the gas is sometimes helpful but not required.
10) Some cars may even start for a second before the switch is flipped, from residual fuel in the rail. In this case, the procedure should be to insert key and turn, car will start, then flip switch on immediately to keep it running.
01-06-09, 12:28 PM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
No cloud ever came out when I turned it over. When I crank it no fuel is coming out of the line I disconnected.. The one that goes from the filter to the motor. I am replacing the pump to see what happens. I got one for cheap anyway.
01-06-09, 01:28 PM
#34
dude. You dont seem to listen very wheel. If it is whining like that it is flooded like hell because it is getting no compression. Changing the pump wont do **** except for waste your time.
If the pump was bad in the first place it would never have gotten flooded to make it whine like that.
List EXACTLY what you have done so far and EXACTLY what it is doing so we can help.
If the pump was bad in the first place it would never have gotten flooded to make it whine like that.
List EXACTLY what you have done so far and EXACTLY what it is doing so we can help.
01-06-09, 01:55 PM
#35
Senior Member
Thread Starter
This is what I have done so far.
When I turn the key it sounds like the starter is turning just not engaging. The fan spins but the motor does not sound like its " Cranking" Just sounds like the starter is spinning
I Pulled all 4 plugs today and wire wheeled them clean. Pulled the leadings, fuses,disconect the crank angle sensor, and turned the motor over. Put some oil down the leadings (teaspoon) spray the holes with some carb cleaner and replace the leadings,fuses and reconnected the crank angle sensor and attempted to start. did this 3x
I pulled the plugs fuses and crank angle sensor and turned it over for 4 sessions of three seconds cleaned the plugs replaced em replaced the fuses and connected the crank angle sensor. did this 4 times. checked for spark and its got spark.Pulled the fuel line from the filter to the motor and turned it over and no fuel came out. Did i pull the right line for checking for fuel? Do i need to continue to wire wheel the plugs each time I pull them?
No cloud ever came out when I turned it over. When I crank it no fuel is coming out of the line I disconnected.. The one that goes from the filter to the motor. I am replacing the pump to see what happens. I got one for cheap anyway When I spray starting fluid in the throttle body it almost starts I just ran out of daylight and time to keep ******* around with it. I will pick up on thursday.
I see you are getting frustrated as am I No need to get upset. I am just confused as to why no fuel would come out.
Thanks for your patience and help fellas.
I Pulled all 4 plugs today and wire wheeled them clean. Pulled the leadings, fuses,disconect the crank angle sensor, and turned the motor over. Put some oil down the leadings (teaspoon) spray the holes with some carb cleaner and replace the leadings,fuses and reconnected the crank angle sensor and attempted to start. did this 3x
I pulled the plugs fuses and crank angle sensor and turned it over for 4 sessions of three seconds cleaned the plugs replaced em replaced the fuses and connected the crank angle sensor. did this 4 times. checked for spark and its got spark.Pulled the fuel line from the filter to the motor and turned it over and no fuel came out. Did i pull the right line for checking for fuel? Do i need to continue to wire wheel the plugs each time I pull them?
No cloud ever came out when I turned it over. When I crank it no fuel is coming out of the line I disconnected.. The one that goes from the filter to the motor. I am replacing the pump to see what happens. I got one for cheap anyway When I spray starting fluid in the throttle body it almost starts I just ran out of daylight and time to keep ******* around with it. I will pick up on thursday.
I see you are getting frustrated as am I No need to get upset. I am just confused as to why no fuel would come out.
Thanks for your patience and help fellas.
01-06-09, 02:08 PM
#36
Rotartist
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Spring Hill TN 37174
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Huh... What does your oil smell like?
Easy way to tell if it "would" run if fuel was there is to spray some starter fluid in the intake.. It dries stuff up AND anything with compression will start on starter fluid..
Loud POP is bad under certain circumstances, could mean lean could mean rich, if lean then bye bye apex seals.....
Easy way to tell if it "would" run if fuel was there is to spray some starter fluid in the intake.. It dries stuff up AND anything with compression will start on starter fluid..
Loud POP is bad under certain circumstances, could mean lean could mean rich, if lean then bye bye apex seals.....
01-06-09, 02:16 PM
#37
Bare Metal Racing
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is most likely your problem, the solenoid that pushes the starter gear out to mesh with the flywheel gear ring is most likely bad. That is part of the starter.
01-06-09, 03:00 PM
#39
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas BABY!
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which means the engine is spinning and he should just say that, even i am still not 100% sure he is saying his engine is spinning.
He could be talking about the starter motor, i have heard stranger things then this from people working on cars.
I do have to sak, has this car ever ran?
At one point you said it did but at another you said you bought it this way?
He could be talking about the starter motor, i have heard stranger things then this from people working on cars.
I do have to sak, has this car ever ran?
At one point you said it did but at another you said you bought it this way?
01-06-09, 04:24 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Which means the engine is spinning and he should just say that, even i am still not 100% sure he is saying his engine is spinning.
He could be talking about the starter motor, i have heard stranger things then this from people working on cars.
I do have to sak, has this car ever ran?
At one point you said it did but at another you said you bought it this way?
He could be talking about the starter motor, i have heard stranger things then this from people working on cars.
I do have to sak, has this car ever ran?
At one point you said it did but at another you said you bought it this way?
The car ran fine a week ago I bought it the day after the motor allegedly blew for a parts car and thought the motor may not be blown.... which now I dont think it is... the fuel issue just has me stumped. The no fuel coming out when I crank it ofcourse.,. I know it has gas because I put in 5 gallons. Oh well I'll keep tinkering with it.
01-06-09, 04:36 PM
#42
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas BABY!
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well start at the begning. Make sure you are getting fuel, once you know you are getting fuel make sure you are gettign compression.
Check timing.
Add a lot of oil and see if ti makes any differnce. nd try starting it on brake cleaner. Once you get it started then it will clear it'sself out and will pretty much fix its self.
Check timing.
Add a lot of oil and see if ti makes any differnce. nd try starting it on brake cleaner. Once you get it started then it will clear it'sself out and will pretty much fix its self.
01-06-09, 05:16 PM
#44
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas BABY!
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, i know quite well. I thought i blew my motor when mine flooded out like your as well. Spent weeks fixing things after that. I learned a LOT though so it was worth it.
01-07-09, 11:31 PM
#49
Senior Member
Thread Starter
No cloud ever came out when I turned it over. When I crank it no fuel is coming out of the line I disconnected.. The one that goes from the filter to the motor.
01-07-09, 11:33 PM
#50
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas BABY!
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which most likely means that your pump is either not turning on or is bad. First test teh eletrical side then test the pump. You can pull it from the acsess panel in the trunk.