possible MAF conversion??
09-15-11 | 10:17 AM
#1
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Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
possible MAF conversion??
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1228729
more reading and pictures in the link.
While back I wanted to do my own mass airflow conversion to replace that flap door air flow meter so I started looking at recent models cars air mass sensors and their data. I found one where it takes 5v reference from the ecu also has integrated air temperature sensor, perfect for conversion. With exception of you got to power it by 12 volt source. It is from 2003 Hyundai accent 1.6L, bosch part number 0 280 218 106 or Hyundai part number 28100-2Y100. 5 pin mass meter.
The integrated air temperature sensor has the same resistance output as stock air temp sensor making it ideal. So I bought this sensor from the local junk yard for $30, I also got the plug for it, I also had one bad stock air flow meter so I took the plug from it to make an male adaptor to stock AFM harness. I wired it properly and supplied ignition switched, 12 volt source to it from near by socket, look at the picture.
No wire swaping at the DME is needed, no soldering at the ecu none. A pure $100 plug in mas meter conversion, I found a rubber hose and made a adaptor to fit it to stock air cleaner boc, all though I need to make it a bit better but for now its ok.
The integrated air temperature sensor has the same resistance output as stock air temp sensor making it ideal. So I bought this sensor from the local junk yard for $30, I also got the plug for it, I also had one bad stock air flow meter so I took the plug from it to make an male adaptor to stock AFM harness. I wired it properly and supplied ignition switched, 12 volt source to it from near by socket, look at the picture.
No wire swaping at the DME is needed, no soldering at the ecu none. A pure $100 plug in mas meter conversion, I found a rubber hose and made a adaptor to fit it to stock air cleaner boc, all though I need to make it a bit better but for now its ok.
09-15-11 | 02:03 PM
#3
Rotary Revolutionary
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From: Jacksonville, Tampa & Tallahassee
This would be AWESOME!
Especially for s4 owners (the s5 afm is far superior and can be swapped for 13b-re or 20bm afms). The flapper door afm fails on so many levels its not even funny.
The only problem I see is finding a maf that came on a turbo equipped car that also had similar output values for the integrated temp sensor. That, and the fact that all the research I've seen states that the signal from a flapper style afm and the signal from a maf are completely different....
Especially for s4 owners (the s5 afm is far superior and can be swapped for 13b-re or 20bm afms). The flapper door afm fails on so many levels its not even funny.
The only problem I see is finding a maf that came on a turbo equipped car that also had similar output values for the integrated temp sensor. That, and the fact that all the research I've seen states that the signal from a flapper style afm and the signal from a maf are completely different....
09-15-11 | 02:17 PM
#4
Jesus is the Messiah
Joined: May 2003
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From: Silver Spring, MD
Or get a decent EMS and chuck the whole thing.
The signals are different.
Also I don't think you'll get $100 worth of return for the investment if you could spend $100 to upgrade to a hot wire MAF.
The signals are different.
Also I don't think you'll get $100 worth of return for the investment if you could spend $100 to upgrade to a hot wire MAF.
09-15-11 | 02:23 PM
#5
Read through that thread in the link.
He swapped in a Bosch MAF sensor to replace a Bosch flapper/vane volume airflow sensor. Since both parts were Bosch it doesn't surprise me that the IAT calibration was the same. Then he rescaled the airflow meter calibration inside his Bosch ECU. That's why it worked.
It seems like the Bosch flapper meter he is using is the 0-5v type where the voltage curve is similar to the Bosch MAF. On the s4 FC Denso-made AFM the voltage decreases as airflow increases. On most MAF sensors, including all the Denso ones I've seen, the voltage increases as airflow increases. The signal would be inverted; even if it weren't, there's no way to rescale the calibration inside the ECU with current available systems.
He swapped in a Bosch MAF sensor to replace a Bosch flapper/vane volume airflow sensor. Since both parts were Bosch it doesn't surprise me that the IAT calibration was the same. Then he rescaled the airflow meter calibration inside his Bosch ECU. That's why it worked.
It seems like the Bosch flapper meter he is using is the 0-5v type where the voltage curve is similar to the Bosch MAF. On the s4 FC Denso-made AFM the voltage decreases as airflow increases. On most MAF sensors, including all the Denso ones I've seen, the voltage increases as airflow increases. The signal would be inverted; even if it weren't, there's no way to rescale the calibration inside the ECU with current available systems.
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09-15-11 | 04:01 PM
#8
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Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
well i saw it and saw they used the same shape AFM so i figured it was the same maker of ours.
if it doesnt work, oh well. figured i would toss this out there for the gurus to pick apart.
if it doesnt work, oh well. figured i would toss this out there for the gurus to pick apart.
09-15-11 | 05:45 PM
#9
Rotary Revolutionary
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From: Jacksonville, Tampa & Tallahassee
Wow, interesting thread! (didn't have time to read it earlier) I see why this wouldn't work.
The benefit of ditching the afm isn't just based on restriction to airflow which is admittedly minimal for reasonable power levels. The flapper cam only read so much airflow, after a point it is just letting in unmetered air....a wonderful condition to attempt to tune around. Additionally the flapper is large, awkward to mount, and position sensitive, not exactly the trifecta of desirability.
There are those who swing from the nuts of speed density systems which rely exclusively on MAP sensors; and while in the vast majority of cases they are superior to afm based systems, their inability to account for changes in air density has blown more than a few engines.
The benefit of ditching the afm isn't just based on restriction to airflow which is admittedly minimal for reasonable power levels. The flapper cam only read so much airflow, after a point it is just letting in unmetered air....a wonderful condition to attempt to tune around. Additionally the flapper is large, awkward to mount, and position sensitive, not exactly the trifecta of desirability.
There are those who swing from the nuts of speed density systems which rely exclusively on MAP sensors; and while in the vast majority of cases they are superior to afm based systems, their inability to account for changes in air density has blown more than a few engines.
09-15-11 | 07:43 PM
#10
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
http://209.238.165.107/products/mafkits/MAFkits2.htm
too much $$$. i have an article from 1990 with a jackson racing miata with a bosch MAF on it, since the miata and S4 FC are plug and play, i'm going to say this mod has been done for decades.
too much $$$. i have an article from 1990 with a jackson racing miata with a bosch MAF on it, since the miata and S4 FC are plug and play, i'm going to say this mod has been done for decades.
09-15-11 | 08:21 PM
#11
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
If you really want a MAF sensor, you can control one with a Megasquirt, Wolf, or Motec standalone EMS.
There are those who swing from the nuts of speed density systems which rely exclusively on MAP sensors; and while in the vast majority of cases they are superior to afm based systems, their inability to account for changes in air density has blown more than a few engines.
There are two primary advantages of a MAF type mass airflow system over a typical speed-density system:
1. The MAF system compensates for humidity (this is a very minor factor).
2. Like every other mass airflow system, the MAF system compensates for small changes in volumetric efficiency to a certain degree.
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