spot_skater

I've got an S4 NA, a few bolt ons, and recently the motor let go. I've decided to go turbo.

I found a TII motor for $700, pulled from a running car. Longblock. Here's the plan...

I'm going to pick up this motor, buy an aftermarket EMS (leaning towards microtech), and I'd like to go with a FMIC setup.

I'd like to swap the flywheel from my NA to the TII motor, so I can still use my NA transmission and driveline (for the time being, until it is destroyed or until I get an entire TII driveline). The aftermarket clutch and pressure plate I have only have about 5k on them.

I'm not too concerned with using all stock sensors, because I'll be using an aftermarket EMS anyway, so If any of the stock sensors are out of spec it won't be a big deal.

For the exhaust I'd like to run a 3" DP, but I'm not sure if that can be used on the stock turbo... Anyway, since I have a nice exhaust already (see sig) I'd keep the stock RB Catback - 2.5"- and use an electronically controlled cutout, right off the downpipe, when I want to track the car, and run more boost, without having to worry about it bottle necking in the exhaust.

I'm aware about what else I will need... Fuel pump, injectors (after turning up the boost) and most likely a better ignition system (jacobs FC2000? MSD6A?).

This will be my first time doing serious work on a turbo rotary, so if anyone can give any worthwhile information, I'd love to hear it. I feel like I'm going in the right direction, but if any of you guys with more experience can tell me I'm not, it would be appreciated.

I've got experience in the electrical aspects of this (ASE CERT) and feel like wiring in the Microtech will not be too bad, and I feel pretty confident that I can do it.

I've got plenty of time, and I've got some money to spend... not willing to spend my entire savings on this car, but enough to get her running the way I just wrote about... with the EMS and FMIC setup. All supporting mods should be covered in my budget as well.

Basically I'm just asking if I'm going in the right direction with this, and if not, an explanation why. I've brought this up once before, and some of you have said to just get it running stock first, but with the mechanical ability I have, and the decent amount of experience I have working on RX7's, I think it would be kind of a waste messing with the stock ECU.

Thanks in advance.

James

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

If you feel confident you can start fresh with the microtech, then go for it.
I'm actually in a similar situation as you, but assuming I get the motor, I'm planning on keeping it totally stock until I can afford proper fuel mods.

lnlycrpr

personally, if the motor is $700, i would spend about ~300 more and get the motor tranny combo. this is more than a long block and it comes with just about anything you need for your setup (sensors, turbo, tranny, TMIC, PS, AC etc...) sell the spare parts you dont need and use that for mods or something else. i speak from experience as i have done the swap myself.

IMHO its not worth the time to "make" the N/A tranny fit fort he time being. its going to cost you more to buy the tranny and driveline later, and it will take more of your time to swap it out. mazdtrix sells an driveshaft that will mate a TII tranny to a N/A rear end, $150 shipped. thats what i have now b/c a TII rear end is hard to find for a good price. althought the clutch DIFF isnt as good as the torsen, it does the job. think long term and it will work out better.

getting it to run stock is a good idea, but getting it to run well is even better. how well do you trust this running motor and how many miles does it have on it??? motor/tranny combo is always JDM and is probaly the same gamble as the one your grabbing and probaly has less miles. since it sounds like you want REAL power, i'd rebuild the motor regardless.

7romanstatesmen

iTrader: (1)

personally, i like the idea of retaining the na drivetrain, just for weight saving purposes (the number that's been quoted is a 150lbs. i believe). and as long as you're nice to it, everything should be fine.

Twofer

I don't think there's that much of a difference in weight. I helped a buddy with a full turbo swap recently and I didn't notice a huge difference in weight between his turbo tranny, diff, subframe, and driveshaft, and the NA ones I've handled. Maybe a couple of pounds difference for each part, if any.

For the 88 FC (ref) here are the following weights...

Manual 2720
Auto 2750
Turbo 2850
Vert 3003

So 130 pounds difference between the base model and the turbo model. While some of that is from the drivetrain, most is from the higher trim level.

lnlycrpr

with the mods that he plans on doing, and the track reference he made, i highly doubt that there is going to be any "nice" driving done with his car. i'm with Twofer on the weight issue, not that much of a difference.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Don't forget to port that wastegate! With those exhaust mods you will have lots of boost creep.

7romanstatesmen

iTrader: (1)

well, to clarify, i meant "nice" in the sense of no huge clutch drops, not "there's a cop behind me nice", but i see what you guys are saying. with the kind of power his car could make eventually, it probably won't matter. weight is one of the first things that pops into my head though, having an n/a, but i guess it needn't be as a big a concern with the modded turbos.

spot_skater

Thanks for the input guys, I do appreciate it. And in regards to the whole driveline issue...

I recently bought the clutch kit, it is an ACT, and like I said it has around 5000 miles on it. If I just didn't use it, it would be a complete waste.

I know I'd have to port the waste gate to eliminate boost creep, and get a bunch of gauges (boost, AFR/Wideband, Water temp/oil press, etc.) to monitor everything.

And I wouldn't plan to all out track this car until it is completely finished. Basically for the time being I'd just like to have it running, and running well, with enough power to keep me happy. I don't think 250 WHP is too far off from what I'd be playing with, and I've been told the NA driveline can take around that, at least the rear end. The tranny would be the weak point... but without powershifting and slamming gears, I think it should hold up.

And my rear end isn't much of an issue... it is basically brand new. It's a 3.9 LSD from an S4 AUTO, ring gear replaced with that from my old 4.10 rear end, so the gearing is good, and I have basically brand new clutches in the LSD.

And in regards to this motor... It was pulled from a running car, so I've been told. And it's a friend of a friends, and I trust him. I know it would be beneficial to tear it down and rebuild it, but I'm not completely sure if I'd like to do that, because money does play a role in this. Plus if I rebuild it I'd have to send it out for some porting... just because it would be the perfect time to do it, and it wouldn't make sense not to. Supposedly this motor has around ~60k, I believe.

Thanks for the input again.

James

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

With the Microtech you need to retain the stock ECT and IAT. You can use any TPS you want. Just FYI.

There's no need for an ignition box if your stock system is in good shape unless you are running really high boost numbers.

NOPR

haltech > microtech, after what i've been through with microtech, i'll never own one again. the E8 has some amazing new stuff coming out for it (guage cluster, electronic boost controller, wideband with self tune). microtech may be cheaper and its definitely 362482 times better than stock ecu, but the haltech is worth the extra money if you can swing it IMO.

also, if your engine is an S4, try to get your hands on an S5 turbo. you can elminate your boost creep worries and get rid of all the twin scroll crap and what not.

all in all though, id say you're on the right track. good luck!

Jager

iTrader: (10)

The RB cat-back is pretty quiet, I wouldn't bother with a cut out. I beleive http://www.corksport.com has a 3 1/8th" downpipe that can taper down to the a 2.5" pipe. So you can use their 2.5" midpipe or any other aftermarket 2.5" pipe.

That is of course if you want to keep the 2.5" RB cat-back.

spot_skater

I know it's quiet, but my Cat- back is for the non turbo. So at times when I want to run more boost efficiently, I'd like to go with the cutout right at the downpipe. Know what I mean?

Rather than have it bottle neck at the end of the line.

spot_skater

The thing about the microtech is, it comes with a basemap that will run a 13bt motor, basically as soon as you go to start it, if everything else is in place. Does the haltech come with this feature?

Obviously I'm going to need to do some more research on which EMS is better for the money.

Thanks,
James

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

You do know that the NA rearends and turbo rearends are not compatible?

Here are some references for you:

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...to_turbo2.html

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...in_differ.html

For those pondering a full turbo swap:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=575188

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Eh, I'de just run a larger system anyways with quiet mufflers.

Anything else seems like a waste.

My .02.

spot_skater

Thanks for the links, Kevin. And I've read your site a few times, by the way.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at with what you wrote, about them being compatible, to be honest.

I know to use an NA rear end with a turbo tranny, I'd need a custom driveshaft. Same goes for turbo rear end with NA tranny. But I plan on keeping my entire NA drivetrain until it lets go.

Your site also says to avoid clutch slippage under boost, you recommend an aftermarket clutch and pressure plate. I have both, for an NA, which I've had in the car for around 5k before it blew... That should hold up under boost, right?

Thanks for the replies.

James

Jager... Im me on AIM, I'll explain to you what I'm talking about.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Oh, I somehow got out of your post that you wanted to mix an NA rear and a turbo drivetrain.

Even with "normal" driving with the turbo motor, you will kill the NA trans eventually. The stiffer clutches accelerate the demise. I killed one in my turbo vert with no hard launches or racing at all. It busted on the way home from NOPI 2 years ago, and I had to nurse it home about 250 miles in 4th gear.

NOPR

both standalones come with basemaps, but neither will likely start your car (in my experience at least, and i've had both). They are usually so pig rich and with such safe timing they wont start without atleast some adjustments and aren't anything you want to drive around with. you'll still have to get a wideband with either system and tune it a bit just to get it to start and idle consistently. neither is really plug and play like you might think.

microtech is a good bargain, with the lt-8 (or whatever its called) being about half the price of the E8, but the E8 sweeps the floor with it as far as all of its features go, and haltechs seem to be more reliable and higher quality from what I've seen at least.

spot_skater

Thanks, NOPR. After a little bit of reading, and a bit of searching I agree with you that the Haltech would be a better choice. But with the E8 selling for almost 1800 AUS, it's real expensive. I was able to find it for $1250, though.

Still have to wait and see if this motor I've got my eyes on will actually become mine. I'll keep you posted.

James

lnlycrpr

[QUOTE=Even with "normal" driving with the turbo motor, you will kill the NA trans eventually. The stiffer clutches accelerate the demise. I killed one in my turbo vert with no hard launches or racing at all. It busted on the way home from NOPI 2 years ago, and I had to nurse it home about 250 miles in 4th gear.[/QUOTE]

we're both trying to tell you that it's not worth it to use the N/A tranny. i'd take his word for it. he's got more than enough experience. i just know better than to do that. i would return the clutch that you bought and use half of that on a custom driveshaft for now. the way it sounds, you're gonna be running the same drivetrain i have.

think of it this way... if you buy the set now it might set you back a couple hundred for the time, but you CANNOT nickle and dime a setup that you plan on running. lets say you go your way and your N/A gives out. now you have to spend all the time (6+hrs) and money ($750+ with tranny&clutch) that you could have saved NOW. god forbid it gives out on you in the middle of nowhere. do yourself a favor and go with the turbo trans now. its cheaper and easier in the long run and it will save you a lot.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I've never had a Microtech not start right out of the box, and I can't remember how many I've installed...

NOPR

really? ive seen two personally and heard of more that wont run without atleast a bit of fidgeting. then again, i never tried for more than two seconds without hooking up the laptop because i knew id have to tune it anyway.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Every standalone will obviously require some playing to get it going, but the Microtechs (when wired right and when the engine isn't a piece of crap) have fired first crank. I'll be starting my car next weekend, and I expect it to work first try...Of course, now that I've jinxed it, the whole thing will catch fire...