Pics of my horizontal mount conversion
01-03-03, 07:08 PM
#34
Huh?
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Playdough!
Thats what I need to use!! I've been having this problem with something in the engine bay hitting my hood, and I haven't been able to figure it out. Ive been trying lots of things, but playdough is the mystery substance! Thanks
Thats what I need to use!! I've been having this problem with something in the engine bay hitting my hood, and I haven't been able to figure it out. Ive been trying lots of things, but playdough is the mystery substance! Thanks
01-03-03, 10:08 PM
#37
Quote-
what would i have to do to get an FD upper and lower intake setup? and what do you do about the TPS and the sensors that are supposed to be of FC genre (instead of the new FD manifold stuff you have on there)
If you do a search you will find a post by me describing mating the FC lower to FD upper- though as you say there are other issues w/ sensors, throttle cables, oil filler TB elbow etc. I am using Haltech (GM) sensors, Lokar for OMP and throttle cables, shortened- lower oil fill tube and modified Greddy 3rd gen TB elbow.
Quote-BUT I still think a FMIC is the most effecient. It seems more practical to devide the FMIC like you did with aluminum panels. Maybe you can find a way to duct more air into the IC. The hole feeding the IC on your car is right in the middle of the nose.<air breaking across the car is going to go down or up, I think very little is going to flow directly in the middle. Maybe a thin fan will work. Sorry I dont mean to be negitive. You have the cleanest horizintal mount IC ive seen in the US.
sky
Yep, when I say I will make the duct hole in the bumper skin pretty I mean pretty in form and function. Of course the top edge of the hole will have a CF lip that extends a little forward so that any attached airflow heading up over the nose is directed into the duct. Likewise the outer edges will be even w/ the turn signals and slope w/ concave radius in to the fiberglass bumper portion. There will be CF duct between the bumper skin and bumper portion.
Like I said, it is not done, but I wanted to take pics of the general idea.
An FMIC may be the most efficient way for cooling intake temps, but how is it for coolant and oil temps? Most FMIC RX-7s get 2 hot laps around the track and they have to do cool down laps- pretty lame for anything besides drag racing, Auto-x or Japanese style "time attack" or "track attack" where they only use your BEST lap time. I will be running low boost for my 300HP as well, so air intake temps won't be critical. This is just a streetcar/daily driver that I hope to learn to drive at the track, so reliability was my ultimate priority.
How about throttle response? I have my 2ndary inj. set pig rich once manifold pressure reaches zero so it stumbles- so I can break in my engine w/ out boost. The To4B 60-1 hi fi w/ "O" trim rear spools it up to zero manifold pressure instantly pulling away gingerly from a stop or w/ an accidental jounce of the throttle at speed. Throttle response/boost response is so much more immediate- important when transitioning corners w/ horizontal mount.
I don't take offense to the comments/critisism- I appreciate the interest.
Quote-Looks really nice! You could even tap into the airflow to the IC for a nice little cold air box.
That was my original plan- sealed airbox fed from a hole/duct in the CF I have on that sides radiator "triangle". I made sure that CF piece the filter goes through is sealed against radiator and wheel well so I can impliment this later. If it is not sealed I would spill alot of air off the front of the radiator. I think enough for the engine is fine though. Hell, the turbo will help "suck" air into the radiator duct :P
Quote-I've seen this car, and aside from a little workshop dust it's quite a bit nicer in person than you might expect from the photos.
Thanks ScrappyFC and thanks for the ride. The lighting sucks at my work- gotta use the monitors contrast adj just to recognize my own car in those pics :-).
Yes, it is far from done- but that is the progress so far. Thanks everyone for looking at the pics and your input. Ian
what would i have to do to get an FD upper and lower intake setup? and what do you do about the TPS and the sensors that are supposed to be of FC genre (instead of the new FD manifold stuff you have on there)
If you do a search you will find a post by me describing mating the FC lower to FD upper- though as you say there are other issues w/ sensors, throttle cables, oil filler TB elbow etc. I am using Haltech (GM) sensors, Lokar for OMP and throttle cables, shortened- lower oil fill tube and modified Greddy 3rd gen TB elbow.
Quote-BUT I still think a FMIC is the most effecient. It seems more practical to devide the FMIC like you did with aluminum panels. Maybe you can find a way to duct more air into the IC. The hole feeding the IC on your car is right in the middle of the nose.<air breaking across the car is going to go down or up, I think very little is going to flow directly in the middle. Maybe a thin fan will work. Sorry I dont mean to be negitive. You have the cleanest horizintal mount IC ive seen in the US.
sky
Yep, when I say I will make the duct hole in the bumper skin pretty I mean pretty in form and function. Of course the top edge of the hole will have a CF lip that extends a little forward so that any attached airflow heading up over the nose is directed into the duct. Likewise the outer edges will be even w/ the turn signals and slope w/ concave radius in to the fiberglass bumper portion. There will be CF duct between the bumper skin and bumper portion.
Like I said, it is not done, but I wanted to take pics of the general idea.
An FMIC may be the most efficient way for cooling intake temps, but how is it for coolant and oil temps? Most FMIC RX-7s get 2 hot laps around the track and they have to do cool down laps- pretty lame for anything besides drag racing, Auto-x or Japanese style "time attack" or "track attack" where they only use your BEST lap time. I will be running low boost for my 300HP as well, so air intake temps won't be critical. This is just a streetcar/daily driver that I hope to learn to drive at the track, so reliability was my ultimate priority.
How about throttle response? I have my 2ndary inj. set pig rich once manifold pressure reaches zero so it stumbles- so I can break in my engine w/ out boost. The To4B 60-1 hi fi w/ "O" trim rear spools it up to zero manifold pressure instantly pulling away gingerly from a stop or w/ an accidental jounce of the throttle at speed. Throttle response/boost response is so much more immediate- important when transitioning corners w/ horizontal mount.
I don't take offense to the comments/critisism- I appreciate the interest.
Quote-Looks really nice! You could even tap into the airflow to the IC for a nice little cold air box.
That was my original plan- sealed airbox fed from a hole/duct in the CF I have on that sides radiator "triangle". I made sure that CF piece the filter goes through is sealed against radiator and wheel well so I can impliment this later. If it is not sealed I would spill alot of air off the front of the radiator. I think enough for the engine is fine though. Hell, the turbo will help "suck" air into the radiator duct :P
Quote-I've seen this car, and aside from a little workshop dust it's quite a bit nicer in person than you might expect from the photos.
Thanks ScrappyFC and thanks for the ride. The lighting sucks at my work- gotta use the monitors contrast adj just to recognize my own car in those pics :-).
Yes, it is far from done- but that is the progress so far. Thanks everyone for looking at the pics and your input. Ian
01-03-03, 10:17 PM
#38
I'm a boost creep...
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That's a fantastic job, well done, but I tend to agree with the earlier comment about lack of flow to the IC through that little slot. Why not just remove the divider and have the both openings feeding the radiator and IC together? I can't see any disadvantage in doing this. Other than that I think it's perfect! 
01-03-03, 10:26 PM
#39
Eat, sleep, work, mod.
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I don't think there would be any significant disadvantages to this setup...he's making some ducting from the bumper, I assume he has a TII hood to allow some hot air to vent, and he's really got the most efficient IC routing available...spool should be very very fast 
def. overkill for a 300rwhp goal, but i say you'll squash that goal mighty quickly. did I say beautiful work?? seriously top notch stuff, even those hose clamps are big $$
def. overkill for a 300rwhp goal, but i say you'll squash that goal mighty quickly. did I say beautiful work?? seriously top notch stuff, even those hose clamps are big $$
01-03-03, 10:28 PM
#40
knowledge junkie
Blue TII's setup is so cool, I've re-posted it for ez viewing/understanding:
Go here:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=145822
Go here:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=145822
01-03-03, 10:41 PM
#41
Quote-What intercooler is that?
I used a "small" Isuzu NPR IC that I cut so that I could have those pipes welded on. Once it was cut like that I was able to get the die grinder in there and take out the casting bosses and polish the insides of the end tanks (like the rest of my intake and exhaust tracts).
I took huge pains so that the pre-weld fit was perfect, and told the welder to go "cold", but I still had to go back in and remove penetration and repolish...
If only you could see the inside of the system, every inch of intake and exhaust is match ported or knife edged (hose to pipe fits) and fully polished (except the 2ndary intake runners after the injectors- which I roughed back up w/ radial striations to keep the fuel off the walls by creating a nice thick boundry layer there.)
Quote-Playdough! Thats what I need to use!!
Doh! He he. Yeah, I would have had it running "last year", but since my friend was over we put the hood on and made a little cone of playdough and placed it many places to check clearances. I would swear there is extra-dimensional space under some spots in the hood it is so deceiving w/ the hood off. So I got is started in the 1st hour of this year.
Quote-Oh, Nice work btw. Looks very professional. Did you do it all yourself?
Rob Golden of Pineapple Racing rebuilt the engine, Bryan of BNR did the turbo, a local shop did my TIG welding- I did the rest w/ basic hand/shop tools.
Quote-Looks very well done, probably cleaner then when it came off the showroom floor
Only cleaner as in less crap in there :-). There was so much weight removed from under the hood after the conversion the stock suspension provided much more front fender gap than rear. Thank god for coilovers :-). I bet I have rear weight bias, I'll have to get it corner weighed some time.
Ian
I used a "small" Isuzu NPR IC that I cut so that I could have those pipes welded on. Once it was cut like that I was able to get the die grinder in there and take out the casting bosses and polish the insides of the end tanks (like the rest of my intake and exhaust tracts).
I took huge pains so that the pre-weld fit was perfect, and told the welder to go "cold", but I still had to go back in and remove penetration and repolish...
If only you could see the inside of the system, every inch of intake and exhaust is match ported or knife edged (hose to pipe fits) and fully polished (except the 2ndary intake runners after the injectors- which I roughed back up w/ radial striations to keep the fuel off the walls by creating a nice thick boundry layer there.)
Quote-Playdough! Thats what I need to use!!
Doh! He he. Yeah, I would have had it running "last year", but since my friend was over we put the hood on and made a little cone of playdough and placed it many places to check clearances. I would swear there is extra-dimensional space under some spots in the hood it is so deceiving w/ the hood off. So I got is started in the 1st hour of this year.
Quote-Oh, Nice work btw. Looks very professional. Did you do it all yourself?
Rob Golden of Pineapple Racing rebuilt the engine, Bryan of BNR did the turbo, a local shop did my TIG welding- I did the rest w/ basic hand/shop tools.
Quote-Looks very well done, probably cleaner then when it came off the showroom floor
Only cleaner as in less crap in there :-). There was so much weight removed from under the hood after the conversion the stock suspension provided much more front fender gap than rear. Thank god for coilovers :-). I bet I have rear weight bias, I'll have to get it corner weighed some time.
Ian
01-03-03, 10:53 PM
#42
Quote-but I tend to agree with the earlier comment about lack of flow to the IC through that little slot.
You want the IC duct opening somewhat smaller than the duct body or at lower speeds air will "spill out" of the duct when it hits the slower moving air already in the duct.
Why not just remove the divider and have the both openings feeding the radiator and IC together? I can't see any disadvantage in doing this.
The problem w/ this is the reverse duct scoop w/ lip right above the IC on the hood creates and is in a low pressure area of the car. It will suck all the air entering the frontal cooling ducts before it gets to the radiator. This low pressure duct and the affect of heated air wanting to rise through the IC core and out of the reverse scoop are both integral parts of horizontal mount design.
You want the IC duct opening somewhat smaller than the duct body or at lower speeds air will "spill out" of the duct when it hits the slower moving air already in the duct.
Why not just remove the divider and have the both openings feeding the radiator and IC together? I can't see any disadvantage in doing this.
The problem w/ this is the reverse duct scoop w/ lip right above the IC on the hood creates and is in a low pressure area of the car. It will suck all the air entering the frontal cooling ducts before it gets to the radiator. This low pressure duct and the affect of heated air wanting to rise through the IC core and out of the reverse scoop are both integral parts of horizontal mount design.
01-05-03, 02:30 AM
#45
George, I guess what happens is as air enters the duct and flows against the duct surfaces it slows down due to friction. This causes the air entering the duct to hit the slower moving air and "stack up" to the point flow reverses so that air still enters the duct, but at the surfaces of the duct air is flowing back out.
By expanding the volume after the inlet it allows the air in the duct to expand and let more air in. I believe this affect is most pronounced at lower speeds and transitions in speed.
If you look at how aircraft duct radiators placed in the wings you will find one teqnique is to have the inlet at the leading edge and the outlet on top of the wing in the low pressure area. Their inlets are always smaller than the body of the duct, but that may have more to do w/ lowering drag and retaining the lift of the airfoil.
By expanding the volume after the inlet it allows the air in the duct to expand and let more air in. I believe this affect is most pronounced at lower speeds and transitions in speed.
If you look at how aircraft duct radiators placed in the wings you will find one teqnique is to have the inlet at the leading edge and the outlet on top of the wing in the low pressure area. Their inlets are always smaller than the body of the duct, but that may have more to do w/ lowering drag and retaining the lift of the airfoil.
01-05-03, 02:52 PM
#47
Hks Ownz Me (
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do you live in socali i would love to see this car sometime i would have to say you have THE NICEST FC setup i have ever seen better than some ive seen on japanese FC track cars.... everything on that seems to flow ( looks ) very WELL its like the car came from the factory like that .... GREAT JOB MAN! one of a kind in my book
01-05-03, 03:17 PM
#48
Why would there be a problem with airflow through the bumper? Anyone ever looked at the small, pathetic opening for the i/c on 3rd gens. Is is ridiculously small and on top of that all of the airflow going to the engine intake also goes through that slot. The opening on the bumper on this conversion has way more overall area and it only feeds the intercooler. Even 3rd gens with with big smic and cone filters don't receive this much air for cooling yet they still cool pretty well. If there was no air directing duct to seperate the airflow from the intercooler or radiator the air would take the easiest route out of the engione bay. Since the direct route is out through the radiator the i/c wouldn't get cooled as much. If this were a true V-mount setup with the faces of both coolers in the direct airstream that would be different. I like this design. I think it has all the advantages of all the other systems with none of the flaws. I wouldn't be concerned with air getting forced over the top of the car and not into the duct. It is that actual part of the bumper which steers the air anyways so an opening there is only going to pull air inward. If the duct were on top of the bumper (or hood) there would be questionable airflow. Take a look at the intercooler ducting on the big racecars (if you can still find one that uses them). Actually just look at old pictures. The opening for the intercooler is at a maximum 20% smaller than the size of the face of the intercooler to promote better flow through it as blue has stated above.
Nice work Blue! That 3rd gen manifold makes the whole setup look even better.
Nice work Blue! That 3rd gen manifold makes the whole setup look even better.
Last edited by rotarygod; 01-05-03 at 03:22 PM.
01-06-03, 12:24 AM
#50
Quote-cmon i aint gonna steal it i jus wanna see
Ha ha. No, I live in the very N. of Cali. About 1 1/2-2 hrs from the Oregon border. Nothing but mulletheads and hicks driving jacked-up/slammed trucks or mustangs/camaros. Hell, I'm impressed when I see a riced out Civic!
Rotary God- yes you get it! The aftermarket 3rd gen SMIC ducts are 12"x3". My 2 1/4"x17" (smallest spot in fiberglass bumper after 2 1/4"x33" in bumper skin) is much bigger.
Ha ha
. No, I live in the very N. of Cali. About 1 1/2-2 hrs from the Oregon border. Nothing but mulletheads and hicks driving jacked-up/slammed trucks or mustangs/camaros. Hell, I'm impressed when I see a riced out Civic!Rotary God- yes you get it! The aftermarket 3rd gen SMIC ducts are 12"x3". My 2 1/4"x17" (smallest spot in fiberglass bumper after 2 1/4"x33" in bumper skin) is much bigger.
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