I've been thinking about painting my car. Only down side is I have never done any painting before so everything is brand new to me. I have a rough idea of what to do after reading for a few hours around the web.

Stuff like:

Sand rust spots to bare metal
Patch up with body work
No need to sand everything to bare metal?
Sand past clear and paint over base coat

Anyway, my questions are towards primering. I'm not trying to go for a showroom paint job. If I were, I wouldn't be doing this at home. But what kind of primer would I need? I've read stuff about picking up high build primer to fill in small divets. What about filler primer? I've read stuff where people put down a couple coats of high build primer, sand, then go over with filler primer to fill in small scratch lines after the initial sanding. If this is the case, would I be fine using just filler primer?

Any help from people with experience would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, I just want this to be decent, and anything other than my peeling paint is decent IMHO

 

do you have rust areas? post some pics so we can get a better idea what is needed..

Wet sand with maybe 600, then 800, then 1000 i think.. In some cases, you dont need to primer, but if you got some bare metal , it is a good idea.

Get a primer that compatible with whatever paint you use.

What is your budget?

For body filler, do not go with bondo brand. Evercoat Rage Gold is what I use, good stuff, easier to work with.

 

Your prolly gonna end up with a mess but how would you learn

Bodywork
Etching Primer on bare metal -optional
Filler
Sand Filler

Primer surfacer(whole car or just bodywork areas)
Sand the whole car with 400

-wet on wet-
Base
Clear

Its not that simple, thats just a simple answer. These days "primer" is really a primer surfacer that you can sand to make a nice flat surface. Think of it as "micro filler"

A whole car that was bear metal you would want an "etching primer" to "attach" to the metal. You would most likely have some sort of a "high build" after that which you could sand out any imperfections.

Go to the place your going to buy your paint from and talk with them. There is usually someone who knows paint thats selling the stuff. They should be more than happy to tell you what to use as well as when and how.

 

Sorry, I don't have access to a camera. The only rust that is visibile is luckily on the sunroof panel. I'm just going to play it safe and replace the panel seeing as it'll probably rust through if it hasn't already. What do you mean by not primering?

 

So what your saying is this,

Body work:
If needed, sand down to bare metal
Apply etching primer
Apply filler
Sand filler

Spray primer surfacer
Sand with 400 grit

Spray base coat
Wet sand
clear coat

Please correct me if I have any of this wrong. Like I said, I've never done anything like this before. Appreciate your help guys.

 

High build is a type of "filler" primer. There is a lot more to painting than people realize and that's the reason shops get paid what they do.

Do you have any defects in the paint (heavy oxidization, checking, crows feet, etc)? If so, you'll either want to go to bare metal or sand out the defects and use a good primer sealer to keep the old defects from coming through.

You right about the rust. Take it to bare metal but you'll also want to feather edge 3-4" out from where you're going to do the rust repair. Feather edging is done with by working your way from a course grit (say, 180 to get the rust off) to a finer grit (finish feather edge with 800). The idea is to not be able to feel the ridges from the previous coats of paint (close your eyes and with a thin cloth over your hand, rub the area you're working on). You can also use the feel technique and feather edging for any other bondo work you may do.

Before you prime you want to use a good painter's degreaser, this will prevent anything from contaminating your paint. After all that a couple medium wet coats of a good primer sealer should keep everything relatively smooth. Wet sand with 400 grit till everything looks an even dull finish and there's no "roughness" left over. If you had experience painting, you can actually skip this step and shoot wet on wet (the true use of the term)...this is where you shoot your base immediately after the primer has flashed. It's not recommended unless you have some skills or really don't care about the final product.

Before you spray your base, after wet sanding your primer, use the degreaser again and a tack cloth to remove and fuzz or dust. When you go to spray the base you want to start out with all the "hard to reach areas". You lightly dust the whole car for adhesion, and when you come to a spot that will be hard to get full coverage you give it a few more light passes (rocker panels, door handle "pocket", scoop, wheel wells, bumper "inlets", etc). Work your way from the top, then work your way around. Then 2-3 medium wet coats should give you full hiding on all your primer/body work. Finally, (especially for metallic paints) after your last medium wet coat has flashed and looks dull, you shoot a "mist" coat. Turn up the pattern size all the way and up the air pressure a bit, then holding the gun 12-16" from the surface, spray in a criss-cross pattern over the whole thing. This will prevent tiger string from improper overlap and the tendency of metallics to try to lay different directions.

Last, but certainly not least you have the clear coat. By the time you've cleaned your gun from spraying the base your base should have flashed dry to the point that you can spray your clear. You should follow the same pattern. Spray your hard to reach places first, then start from the top, then work your way around. After your first medium wet coat of clear you're going to wait. After about 5-10min (depending on temp and paint mix) put your gloved finger lightly on a part of the masking that got good and wet, now slowly pull your finger away. What you're looking for is "spider webs" from your finger to the paint. Once this occurs you can do your second coat...repeat for any additional coats there after.

Make sure you give your paint plenty of time to dry. Do not apply decals or badges for 30days if you're not baking or using a special quick air dry paint (Dupont Hot Hues has a clear that dries uber-fast). If you have runs, after the 30 days is up, you can address them with wet sanding and polishing. If you run paint in the base coat and you're using a metallic paint, you might as well sand the base off and start over. Primer runs can usually be fixed during the wet sand process. If you skimp on your prep your paint job will most likely fail...it'll probably start flaking off or peeling rather soon. Take your time with the body work and prep.

I know this was a long post, but like I said, there's a reason shops get paid what they do. I'm a professional body mechanic, but I've also done my share of garage jobs and they can be done just as well as using a professional booth. Hope this helped.

PS: retro spec, makes a CF sunroof panel that has OEM fitment.

 

Here's my previous FC that I painted in my garage:


Door handle shave with a 3 stage lamborghini orange

 

On cars that are newer, or have newer paint you can sometimes get away with scuffing the clear coat and spraying your base directly on the clear. But with old paint or defected paint (with any bare metal), this won't work.

 

I may be new at this, but that sounded like educated advice. Thank you. Don't get me wrong, I respect your profession, I would just like to try my hand at this. I understand that prep is about 99% of the work. I'm not worried about that, I have a lot of time on my hands. Recently single.

I'm going to go with a classic white for this car. From what I have read, white really hides imperfections well in the paint. So if I do mess up a bit, hopefully its not too noticeable. As far as what was said earlier, I would need to get a paint that bonds with the primer correct? So acrylic urethane paint for example only bonds with acrylic urethane primer?

I'm planning on pulling all the panels off the car as in the doors, hood, fenders, rear hatch, bumpers, etc and painting them all seperately. Would you advise against this? I would think that it would be easier but then again there's a reason why I'm the one asking the questions.

 

White is actually a really hard color to paint, because as you're spraying you can get "lost" and end up with too much overlap and running the paint.

The type of primer and base you use are independent of each other, adhesion (or bonding if you prefer) is more a function of the surface texture rather than composition. That's why wet sanding the primer with 400 and dust coating the first base coat are so important.

I would recommend against shooting each part seperately. The reason why is you will end up with slight variances in the shade of the color, and white is notorious for showing shade differences. You'll want to paint the entire car, put together. If you want, you can do the jams and engine bay, etc with everything off, but you'll want to do the whole exterior at the same time.

 

Makes sense. I'm debating whether or not to use my stock s5 side skirts. I'd have to paint something like this seperately correct? Apologies for asking so many questions this late.

 

With painting white it'd be best to try and paint it at the same time, so you end up with the same number of coats, etc You can paint it off the car, just paint it at the same time...make sense?

Don't worry about asking so many questions...that's what forums are for.

 

I was also planning on painting the car myself. I already got most of the tools for it.
I airbrushed a while ago, so it was not that new for me but the only advice I can give is:

A: Have it prepped and painted by a pro, there is a reason why they get paid for this.
They know their stuff and have experience. But remember you only get what you paid for.
Estimate for repainting my FC by a pro with a rust removing (its not a rust bucket but small places here and there, its in a good shape for 25 yrs) was about 7500 $ here.

B: If you really want to do it yourself be ready to do lots of reading and spend a good amount of cash on tools, compressor, quality guns, etc etc you name it , you need it.
It does not have to be a sata but cheap stuff will produce cheap reults. Get a good average priced gun for base and clear and keep a cheap one for primer if it has to be cheap.
This topic has been beaten to death on the german painter forums but people still buy crap and complain later.

Take a look at Ed Hubbs DVD "Bare metal to clear coat" http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ksdvd.aspx
He is a custom painter and I really appreciate his work. He basically explains and shows what is involved in stripping an existing paint of, repairing and putting fresh paint on.
This may give you a different view of the topic.

Steven

 

I don't personally subscribe to the "cheap gun, cheap results" because painting is more about technique than equipment. While true that a good gun may last longer without need for rebuild, etc, as long as you keep your equipment clean your technique will determine the final result. It is nice to have multiple guns, but not a necessity. It is a good idea to have different tip/needle sizes for primer and base/clear.

 

Good luck with your project.

+1 on the Ed Hubbs DVD. It gives a nice overview of the whole process and its cheap. It's a little MTV for my taste but is still useful. I like the LearnAutoBodyAndPaint.com subscription as well. It has no production value whatsoever but he records and comments on a whole series of jobs from start to finish including a body kit on a Miata, fixing an OEM bumper and molding in a spoiler on an SLK, painting interiors, etc.

If you go with the Harbor Freight HVLP gun here are a set of good adjustment/setup instructions.

Some of the best advice I've seen is to go to the junkyard and get a fender or door in similar condition to your paint and practice on it.

 

One of the better paint threads I've seen. Sticky-worthy?

 

Thanks for the input. I don't underestimate the quality and the price for that matter of a professional painter. I personally just don't have an extra $7500 to spare. I see this project more as a labor of love and if it should take me a while to finish then so be it.

As far as equipment, I shouldn't be too far off. The compressor I have, and guns I'll be able to borrow from friends.

Also, the website you referenced was tcpglobal. Have you used any of there products before? If you have, any likes? Dislikes?

 

I definitely plan on practicing on something before attempting. Seems like a long but fun project.

 

blk87Turbo2 is giving some good info here, there is a ton to cover tho....

There is another option which will save you quite a bit of money and you end up with a nice paint job. Do all the prep work up to the final base/clear and pay somone with a nice booth to do that. Thats how I do it these days, Just way to out of practice to spray as well as somone who does it 2-3 times a day. Sure, a bumper cover is no problem but a whole car is a ballet of lots going on at once.

Anyone can spray primer surfacer/sealer cuz it gets sanded before the final base/clear. Doing base/clear well takes something you onlyget by doing it.

 

Make sure you use an oil separator with additional air filter on the compressor as otherwise the air may be compromitted with oil and ruin your paint.

I personally have not used any of the products from tcpglobal. Basically they sell 2 brands, Kustom Shop and House of kolor.
I would not hesitate to use them on my car. They both have a great color and effect range. But remeber this is custom paint,
not regular OEM repair stuff. Usually the custom paint is superior stuff made of better quality materials.

Kustom Shop is a bit lower priced than House of kolor (short: "HOK"). HOK is top notch stuff and so is the price. I love the HOK datasheets,
they are top notch too. I havent seen any better datasheets than the HOK ones. I recommend you pick the datasheets from HOK and use them as a reference.
If spraying another brand keep in mind to respect their ratios. Use the HOK sheets as an information guide and reference.

A good paint structure may look like this:

-Bare metal, fiberglass or prepared OEM paint
-Bodyfiller (Use as needed)
-Primer (2 component epoxy primers are preferred as they have better corrosion protection)
-Sealer (Not obligatory but will prolong the life of the paintjob, will be applied over prepared and sanded primer)
-Basecoat (Gives the car the desired color)
-Clearcoat (Protects the paint from the sun and other damage)

It is generally recommended when using custom paint to stay at the same brand. Meaning using primer,sealer, basecoat and clearcoat of the same brand, not mixing with other brands.
As they have special chemical formulas which are made to work together.

I was more referring to the really cheap stuff which will fail on you in the middle of your work. They usually dont have seals that resists the chemicals in the paint. The threads dont fit properly, crappy needles etc ...
Of course good results are also possible with a low priced gun. When I mentioned cheap I had those really bad guns in mind which you get of ebay for 50€ or so.
A good but low priced gun may be the devilbiss startingline series. They are low priced but come from a reputable brand.
I will buy this gun for primer and sealer when spraying my delorean body shell and bumpers.

If you buy expensive guns (like SATA) you can sell them for a good price later when your project is done and you have treated them right.

Steven

 

I've been reading on different types of painting such as base/clear and single stage paint. Quick question, would I have to clear coat a single stage paint job? Just thought I'd ask.

 

Single stage is just that...one layer of paint. It doesn't hold up to oxidization very well, and you cant just wet sand and polish it like you can with clear coat. It's less forgiving and generally doesn't look as good. Single stage just doesn't have the depth that clear does. I don't recommend it at all.

 

So I'm better off going with a base/clear. I might have it wrong, but how many coats of paint will I be needing with a base/clear? Did that question even make sense?

 

Number if coats of base depends on how much it takes to get full coverage, then typically 2-3 coats of clear.

 

this should be deleted from this thread, everything said here is false.

Its not a "single" layer of paint, it is type of cataylzed paint that does not require clearcoat. Think this paint is no good and not forgiving? It is what is used on aircraft, tractor trailers, boats, cars before more environmentally and easier to apply basecoat/clearcoat was used.
It is applied anywhere from 2-5 coats depending on color and type of paint.

More paint is not better, most high solid clearcoats are applied in 2 coats.

It can be literally sanded and polished down to the primer, where BC/CC once you break the clear the paint is compromised and requires touch up.

I dont know where you get your information from but please get your facts straight first.


no gloss and depth? yup- very dull